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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 12, 2022 8:47:47 GMT -5
One thing people forget, is WWE is WRESTLING. Not just to fans but to wrestlers as well. People don't forget this, they just don't think it in the first place usually because it isn't true In a mainstream sense I think that’s still true for many. There’s still no Wrestlemania equivalent in North America for other promotions and most wrestlers that are fans I’m sure grew up watching WWE as it’s been the only mainstream game in town from 2001 until recently.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 12, 2022 8:51:56 GMT -5
But it is? WWE is the biggest company of all time. It offers exposure and has a legacy that no other company has. Honestly i cant believe people still think that,most great pro wrestlers want to perform at the highest level and WWE doesnt offer that,WWE offers a lot of bells and whistles but for serious pro wrestlers looking to actually wrestle they will want to work in Japan or various other promotions that put wrestling first and entertaining nonsense second. No Japanese wrestler dreams to work for WWE nor does Mexican talent,a whole host of international wrestlers would like to work for New Japan much more or Stardom etc. WWE is for people who want to be famous more then be a pro wrestler which is fine but for Omega,the Young Bucks, Osprey etc they want to put on the best wrestling matches they can and WWE doesnt offer that with its restrictions and its poor booking. WWE doesn’t really restrict movesets anymore, wrestlers can do as they want in-ring pretty much.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 12, 2022 8:58:04 GMT -5
I think it's hard to say now. I think if things continue on this trajectory for AEW, both Kenny and the Bucks will retire there.
If AEW changes direction and Tony and the Elite grow apart for whatever reason, I think anything's possible.
The only thing to keep in mind is that everybody would be 2-3 years older by the time this happens and who knows what things look like in both AEW and WWE. Maybe AJ and Finn are gone or working less. New Day, Usos are two years older each. I think Kenny is purposely going to be in the trios division with the Bucks for awhile because they want to rest up a bit, but they all have a lot of miles on them.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 12, 2022 9:04:57 GMT -5
I think it's hard to say now. I think if things continue on this trajectory for AEW, both Kenny and the Bucks will retire there. If AEW changes direction and Tony and the Elite grow apart for whatever reason, I think anything's possible. The only thing to keep in mind is that everybody would be 2-3 years older by the time this happens and who knows what things look like in both AEW and WWE. Maybe AJ and Finn are gone or working less. New Day, Usos are two years older each. I think Kenny is purposely going to be in the trios division with the Bucks for awhile because they want to rest up a bit, but they all have a lot of miles on them. Kenny’s contract is supposedly up early 2023, unless Khan extends it due to injury. And the Bucks contract is up early 2024, so only 15 or so months away.
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Post by Dub H on Sept 12, 2022 9:40:59 GMT -5
WWE completely limits wrestlers,that is a fact. The "WWE Style" is well know for being a thing.
Not to say Kenny wouldnt completely be amazing at it but look at Bryan
Dude was great in-ring in WWE,fact. But outside of WWE?Dude was a whole different beast, same for Moxley.
That didnt change because of Trips, his NXT was still about teaching the WWE Style,if you want recent examples just look at KENTA and Swerve
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 12, 2022 10:05:00 GMT -5
But it is? WWE is the biggest company of all time. It offers exposure and has a legacy that no other company has. Honestly i cant believe people still think that,most great pro wrestlers want to perform at the highest level and WWE doesnt offer that,WWE offers a lot of bells and whistles but for serious pro wrestlers looking to actually wrestle they will want to work in Japan or various other promotions that put wrestling first and entertaining nonsense second. No Japanese wrestler dreams to work for WWE nor does Mexican talent,a whole host of international wrestlers would like to work for New Japan much more or Stardom etc. WWE is for people who want to be famous more then be a pro wrestler which is fine but for Omega,the Young Bucks, Osprey etc they want to put on the best wrestling matches they can and WWE doesnt offer that with its restrictions and its poor booking. Ok bro. I forgot... WWE is teh sux!
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 12, 2022 10:21:58 GMT -5
WWE completely limits wrestlers,that is a fact. The "WWE Style" is well know for being a thing. Not to say Kenny wouldnt completely be amazing at it but look at Bryan Dude was great in-ring in WWE,fact. But outside of WWE?Dude was a whole different beast, same for Moxley. That didnt change because of Trips, his NXT was still about teaching the WWE Style,if you want recent examples just look at KENTA and Swerve Disagree with that, NXT Takeovers in the black and gold era and all of the main roster shows since the Triple H takeover show that’s not the case. I don’t see any limitations on movesets, the only thing “WWE style” I see is the facing the hard cam for pins trope.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 12, 2022 10:23:15 GMT -5
Honestly i cant believe people still think that,most great pro wrestlers want to perform at the highest level and WWE doesnt offer that,WWE offers a lot of bells and whistles but for serious pro wrestlers looking to actually wrestle they will want to work in Japan or various other promotions that put wrestling first and entertaining nonsense second. No Japanese wrestler dreams to work for WWE nor does Mexican talent,a whole host of international wrestlers would like to work for New Japan much more or Stardom etc. WWE is for people who want to be famous more then be a pro wrestler which is fine but for Omega,the Young Bucks, Osprey etc they want to put on the best wrestling matches they can and WWE doesnt offer that with its restrictions and its poor booking. Ok bro. I forgot... WWE is teh sux! Seems like you are the one unable to have a conversation regardless of the other persons opinion. If all you are gonna do is post a flamebaiting response I suggest you dont reply.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 12, 2022 10:25:17 GMT -5
WWE completely limits wrestlers,that is a fact. The "WWE Style" is well know for being a thing. Not to say Kenny wouldnt completely be amazing at it but look at Bryan Dude was great in-ring in WWE,fact. But outside of WWE?Dude was a whole different beast, same for Moxley. That didnt change because of Trips, his NXT was still about teaching the WWE Style,if you want recent examples just look at KENTA and Swerve Disagree with that, NXT Takeovers in the black and gold era and all of the main roster shows since the Triple H takeover show that’s not the case. I don’t see any limitations on movesets, the only thing “WWE style” I see is the facing the hard cam for pins trope. I cant really speak for the main roster to be honest as I havent watched but for me NXT always followed the patterns of the main roster with the pacing and spots, NXT Black and Gold was applied better but as I said, a lot of Indie wrestlers seemed to have to adapt to that pacing and overall spots,always big focus on working that one body part and then overcoming that bodypart. That doesnt mean they wont be amazing. NXT UK seemed to be the only one that didnt follow it. Especially with tag matches, it seems WWE will always just do hot tag ,the matches.
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Post by sunnytaker on Sept 12, 2022 10:29:34 GMT -5
bucks i don;t think will do well, between the general lag of interest in tag teams (which may change with HHH) and the fact they wouldn;t be able to do their overextended double team moves (one reason why aew has a 10 count instead of a 5 count for the illegal man to get out of the ring). also think they would need to slow down as well as a lot of the teams aren't overly high paced except in spurts.
omega could go either way. they'd either make him a comedic character with everything relating to SOUTH Carolina- cause north is flair country and charlotte would also be there still. or he would be another guy fed to the 5000000 day reign of roman. probably win some midcard belts but i don;t see them giving him the top title.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 12, 2022 10:31:56 GMT -5
Disagree with that, NXT Takeovers in the black and gold era and all of the main roster shows since the Triple H takeover show that’s not the case. I don’t see any limitations on movesets, the only thing “WWE style” I see is the facing the hard cam for pins trope. I cant really speak for the main roster to be honest as I havent watched but for me NXT always followed the patterns of the main roster with the pacing and spots, NXT Black and Gold was applied better but as I said, a lot of Indie wrestlers seemed to have to adapt to that pacing and overall spots,always big focus on working that one body part and then overcoming that bodypart. That doesnt mean they wont be amazing. NXT UK seemed to be the only one that didnt follow it. Especially with tag matches, it seems WWE will always just do hot tag ,the matches. Newly trained NXT wrestlers maybe, but did watching Takeovers with indy guys like Gargano, Cole, Zayn, Cesaro, Ciampa, Andrade, Owens really feel like their work was being inhibited in any way? I thought there was a drastic difference in style of work between those Takeovers and the main roster. As for tag matches, those Takeover tag matches were some of the best ever (DIY, Revival, Alpha, reDragon, even AOP).
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 12, 2022 11:36:20 GMT -5
WWE completely limits wrestlers,that is a fact. The "WWE Style" is well know for being a thing. Not to say Kenny wouldnt completely be amazing at it but look at Bryan Dude was great in-ring in WWE,fact. But outside of WWE?Dude was a whole different beast, same for Moxley. That didnt change because of Trips, his NXT was still about teaching the WWE Style,if you want recent examples just look at KENTA and Swerve Ambrose was better in WWE tho. And Bryan never really wrestled that much differently. "WWE Style" is a myth.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 12, 2022 11:56:26 GMT -5
Ok bro. I forgot... WWE is teh sux! Seems like you are the one unable to have a conversation regardless of the other persons opinion. If all you are gonna do is post a flamebaiting response I suggest you dont reply. Not flame baiting at all. But you're argument doesn't hold water. There's no "WWE Style".
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 12, 2022 12:24:38 GMT -5
Seems like you are the one unable to have a conversation regardless of the other persons opinion. If all you are gonna do is post a flamebaiting response I suggest you dont reply. Not flame baiting at all. But you're argument doesn't hold water. There's no "WWE Style". My dude, you've gone off topic a bunch of times in the thread, including when someone said they didn't want to derail the topic and...somehow to rant about Citizen Kane. If that's not baiting I'm not sure what is. And there absolutely was a style people are told to do, but I can't speak for HHH-led WWE.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Sept 12, 2022 12:33:01 GMT -5
WWE completely limits wrestlers,that is a fact. The "WWE Style" is well know for being a thing. Not to say Kenny wouldnt completely be amazing at it but look at Bryan Dude was great in-ring in WWE,fact. But outside of WWE?Dude was a whole different beast, same for Moxley. That didnt change because of Trips, his NXT was still about teaching the WWE Style,if you want recent examples just look at KENTA and Swerve Ambrose was better in WWE tho. And Bryan never really wrestled that much differently. "WWE Style" is a myth. It's all subjective but I personally think Moxley is significantly better now than he ever was in WWE and I don't think I'm in the minority there. Bryan's matches are also a bit different as well. He's having matches with a large focus on grappling whereas his WWE matches were more built on strikes and high impact spots. My view is there are slight differences but it has less to do with the moves. In WWE, there are differences in how guys pace matches and how they structure them. They're all quite similar in a lot of ways even if the ingredients are different. Can they still be great? Absolutely. Are there exceptions? Of course. But you see that the matches are mainly built around the big spots and the signature moves. Outside of WWE, there is more likely to be an emphasis on the music between the notes of a match. That is why I have found RAW better generally but also why I sometimes zone out. It's a lot of *** star matches that blend together for me because I find them somewhat similar stylistically. There's certainly more variance in NXT but I am not sure yet how much that will bleed over to the main roster right now.
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Post by Fade on Sept 12, 2022 13:13:45 GMT -5
“WWE style” has always reminded me of acting in proscenium for a grand theater and most everything else comes off like arena acting in black box spaces. I dig both.
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Post by darbus alan on Sept 12, 2022 13:14:36 GMT -5
After watching a lot of New Japan and AEW, a lot of WWE matches, even in black and gold NXT feel like they're moving in slow motion. The pacing between WWE and everywhere else is like night and day. It's a lot more deliberate in WWE. Whether that's for good or bad is up to everyone's tastes.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 12, 2022 13:43:40 GMT -5
Not flame baiting at all. But you're argument doesn't hold water. There's no "WWE Style". My dude, you've gone off topic a bunch of times in the thread, including when someone said they didn't want to derail the topic and...somehow to rant about Citizen Kane. If that's not baiting I'm not sure what is. And there absolutely was a style people are told to do, but I can't speak for HHH-led WWE. I've engaged in conversation my dude. Isn't that point of a discussion board? Like.. half the topics on this board devolve in off topic rantings about food or some shit. But sure call me out. Chthulu bless you dude.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 12, 2022 14:08:43 GMT -5
Pffh, by now I’ve given up on ever discovering a hard and undeniable “GOAT definition”. My perfect idea of a five-tool wrestler is still Randy Savage, and I already know because of how different the 80’s style was from today and how admittedly patterned his matches got later in his career, there’s tons of fans who’d look at me like “you can’t be serious, he couldn’t do such-and-such and look at the cruiser weights.”
So all I can give you is who I think personally can build drama best in their matches. Cena’s and Omega are both masters in that department IMO. Can’t debate that.
I never have a move set checklist since I’ve seen classic matches with nothing but kicks (seriously, go watch Ibushi/Taichi from that recent G1, it’s nuts).
Who’d Kenny actually work with is anyone’s guess but he’d absolutely be taking one of those world titles at some point.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 12, 2022 14:15:14 GMT -5
WWE completely limits wrestlers,that is a fact. The "WWE Style" is well know for being a thing. Not to say Kenny wouldnt completely be amazing at it but look at Bryan Dude was great in-ring in WWE,fact. But outside of WWE?Dude was a whole different beast, same for Moxley. That didnt change because of Trips, his NXT was still about teaching the WWE Style,if you want recent examples just look at KENTA and Swerve Ambrose was better in WWE tho. And Bryan never really wrestled that much differently. "WWE Style" is a myth. There’s subtle differences in Danielson’s AEW work because it’s a whole new team of agents for him to work with, fresh feedback. That’s not too far removed from most major stars when they hop to a new company though. Don’t really notice much change in his intensity levels. IMO, not just ROH but the way guys also went hard during Ruthless Aggression was a predecessor to what Kenny was doing in DDT and All Elite later. That was a more intense ring work era than we recall.
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