|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 14, 2022 1:54:32 GMT -5
Ohmey Kennga and Jack & Mitt Nixon will debut in the Rumble. IT'S GENERATION US
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,317
|
Post by Woo on Sept 20, 2022 6:45:45 GMT -5
No? “Who brought in the most money” is the metric for “who brought in the most money” not who the best is. By your logic, Nickelback are among some of the best musicians of all time. A random MCU movie is a better film than Citizen Kane. Candy Crush is a better video game than Super Mario World. Best is inherently a subjective measure, as what makes something great will change depending on the person judging it. Citizen Kane is a terrible movie. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but Jesus Christ man lol Yeah they will definitely be there at some point. Omega will be a star, the Bucks his lackeys imo.
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,317
|
Post by Woo on Sept 20, 2022 6:50:59 GMT -5
Pffh, by now I’ve given up on ever discovering a hard and undeniable “GOAT definition”. My perfect idea of a five-tool wrestler is still Randy Savage, and I already know because of how different the 80’s style was from today and how admittedly patterned his matches got later in his career, there’s tons of fans who’d look at me like “you can’t be serious, he couldn’t do such-and-such and look at the cruiser weights.” So all I can give you is who I think personally can build drama best in their matches. Cena’s and Omega are both masters in that department IMO. Can’t debate that. I never have a move set checklist since I’ve seen classic matches with nothing but kicks (seriously, go watch Ibushi/Taichi from that recent G1, it’s nuts). Who’d Kenny actually work with is anyone’s guess but he’d absolutely be taking one of those world titles at some point. Even Bret Hart thought Randy Savage was the greatest. Him planning matches being a mark against him is such a carny attitude. I remember Flair complaining about that in his book and it just raised my estimation of Savage.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,468
|
Post by Dub H on Sept 20, 2022 9:03:25 GMT -5
Pffh, by now I’ve given up on ever discovering a hard and undeniable “GOAT definition”. My perfect idea of a five-tool wrestler is still Randy Savage, and I already know because of how different the 80’s style was from today and how admittedly patterned his matches got later in his career, there’s tons of fans who’d look at me like “you can’t be serious, he couldn’t do such-and-such and look at the cruiser weights.” So all I can give you is who I think personally can build drama best in their matches. Cena’s and Omega are both masters in that department IMO. Can’t debate that. I never have a move set checklist since I’ve seen classic matches with nothing but kicks (seriously, go watch Ibushi/Taichi from that recent G1, it’s nuts). Who’d Kenny actually work with is anyone’s guess but he’d absolutely be taking one of those world titles at some point. Even Bret Hart thought Randy Savage was the greatest. Him planning matches being a mark against him is such a carny attitude. I remember Flair complaining about that in his book and it just raised my estimation of Savage. Savage was before my time so I didn't watch much of him but why would I care if he planned? The only thing that matters for the entertainment of of fans is the product after people walk out of the back. Especially today where wwe made most matches very heavily planned
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2022 9:24:08 GMT -5
I hope he shows up and loses to Solo Sikoa. If you think that's going to happen in the Levesque-era WWE considering how much money Kenny would cost, I'll sell you my ocean front property in Nebraska.
|
|
|
Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 20, 2022 9:28:17 GMT -5
Citizen Kane is a terrible movie. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but Jesus Christ man lol Yeah they will definitely be there at some point. Omega will be a star, the Bucks his lackeys imo. What? Have you seen the movie? It's a boring slog of a narrative.
|
|
|
Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 20, 2022 9:32:24 GMT -5
Even Bret Hart thought Randy Savage was the greatest. Him planning matches being a mark against him is such a carny attitude. I remember Flair complaining about that in his book and it just raised my estimation of Savage. Savage was before my time so I didn't watch much of him but why would I care if he planned? The only thing that matters for the entertainment of of fans is the product after people walk out of the back. Especially today where wwe made most matches very heavily planned Yea. Entertainment matters way more than "work rate". I think Mick Foley in one of his books said "If moves mattered, Taka Michinoku would be the biggest star in the WWF". s Hulk Hogan, to me, will always be the greatest wrestler ever. He entertained me more than anyone else ever has. Savage is right up there. Hell my favorite match of all time is Hogan VS Savage at WM5. Cena and Omega are two guys who can build drama and make the simplest match seem big. So Omega would be doing ok in WWE.
|
|
Feyrhausen
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,315
Member is Online
|
Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 20, 2022 9:45:34 GMT -5
Even Bret Hart thought Randy Savage was the greatest. Him planning matches being a mark against him is such a carny attitude. I remember Flair complaining about that in his book and it just raised my estimation of Savage. Savage was before my time so I didn't watch much of him but why would I care if he planned? The only thing that matters for the entertainment of of fans is the product after people walk out of the back. Especially today where wwe made most matches very heavily planned George Carlin meticulously wrote out his bits. Does that make him less than a comedian who just wings it? No he is one of the greatest ever. The only drawback is if you are so set in a plan that you cannot improvise if something unforeseen happens. George didnt have that problem and I never heard of Savage having difficulties. Flair was probably just mad because he was usually so high he couldnt remember a routine.
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,361
|
Post by salz4life on Sept 20, 2022 11:02:17 GMT -5
I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but Jesus Christ man lol Yeah they will definitely be there at some point. Omega will be a star, the Bucks his lackeys imo. What? Have you seen the movie? It's a boring slog of a narrative. I had to watch it for a class in college. Ooof... it was rough to get through. I think it's revered for it's technical presentation and how it set trends for the ways movie were made going forward, but it was definitely a tough watch, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 20, 2022 11:39:02 GMT -5
What? Have you seen the movie? It's a boring slog of a narrative. I had to watch it for a class in college. Ooof... it was rough to get through. I think it's revered for it's technical presentation and how it set trends for the ways movie were made going forward, but it was definitely a tough watch, IMO. I loved it but I can understand why it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
|
|
|
Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 20, 2022 12:10:49 GMT -5
I had to watch it for a class in college. Ooof... it was rough to get through. I think it's revered for it's technical presentation and how it set trends for the ways movie were made going forward, but it was definitely a tough watch, IMO. I loved it but I can understand why it might not be everyone's cup of tea. I mean ... it's better than Gone With The Wind lol. But honestly when it comes to "classic" movies, i think Wizard of Oz is king.
|
|
|
Post by darbus alan on Sept 20, 2022 14:05:33 GMT -5
Citizen Kane is one of those movies that means a lot to film history and filmmaking in general even if the the content itself doesn't hold up for modern audiences. It's also remarkable that Orson Welles was only in his mid 20's when he directed arguably one of the greatest movies of all time.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,992
Member is Online
|
Post by Mozenrath on Sept 20, 2022 14:17:13 GMT -5
I hope he shows up and loses to Solo Sikoa. If you think that's going to happen in the Levesque-era WWE considering how much money Kenny would cost, I'll sell you my ocean front property in Nebraska. It's the same thing people did with Cody, they get their jokes in before seeing that big money isn't being spent just for spite anymore, especially because Wrestler A's booking strength will make a difference on Wrestler B's level of interest down the line. Consider how Sting avoided signing with WWE for well over a decade, in part because TNA was easier money and were going to push him hard, anyway, but also because he saw what a shitshow the InVasion was for anybody short of like maybe Booker T. Booker was treated as a bit of a buffoon for a lot of it, but also got over and frankly, wasn't being treated THAT much better as a main eventer in WCW who was kind of a bland babyface champion who got regularly outsmarted or outgunned by Jarrett and Steiner.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
|
Post by chazraps on Sept 20, 2022 14:21:14 GMT -5
I can't believe it needs to be said, but Citizen Kane is fantastic. Holds up for today's audiences amazingly. Rightfully revered.
It's more than just being a technical massive evolutionary leap forward. The emotional resonance of the writing is as phenomenal in 2022 as it was when it came out.
Bernstein's speech in the first minute or so here, absolute perfection -
|
|
|
Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 20, 2022 14:38:07 GMT -5
I can't believe it needs to be said, but Citizen Kane is fantastic. Holds up for today's audiences amazingly. Rightfully revered. It's more than just being a technical massive evolutionary leap forward. The emotional resonance of the writing is as phenomenal in 2022 as it was when it came out. Bernstein's speech in the first minute or so here, absolute perfection - Or... maybe it's ok if people think its a to long, try hard piece of shit. That's the wonderful thing about people, some love vanilla, some love strawberry. Some think chocolate is disgusting, others chocolate is thier absolute favorite. I personally find Citizen Kane boring and f***ing terrible. I recognize its popular and that has technological and film technique innovation. It still sucks donkey testicles. Id much rather watch "Casablanca", "The Wizard of Oz" or '"The Maltese Falcon" or even "King Kong" or the Universal monsters if we're talking "classic" movies from that era. But we've derailed the thread enough.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
|
Post by chazraps on Sept 20, 2022 14:40:04 GMT -5
I can't believe it needs to be said, but Citizen Kane is fantastic. Holds up for today's audiences amazingly. Rightfully revered. It's more than just being a technical massive evolutionary leap forward. The emotional resonance of the writing is as phenomenal in 2022 as it was when it came out. Bernstein's speech in the first minute or so here, absolute perfection - Or... maybe it's ok if people think its a to long, try hard piece of shit. Trying hard at what?
|
|
msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,562
|
Post by msc on Sept 20, 2022 14:49:43 GMT -5
Randy Savage planned out all of his matches in careful detail, and that's why he's one of the few people to have incredible matches with pretty much everyone.
|
|
|
Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Sept 20, 2022 14:50:58 GMT -5
Mayor Undertaker
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 20, 2022 14:56:40 GMT -5
I can't believe it needs to be said, but Citizen Kane is fantastic. Holds up for today's audiences amazingly. Rightfully revered. It's more than just being a technical massive evolutionary leap forward. The emotional resonance of the writing is as phenomenal in 2022 as it was when it came out. Bernstein's speech in the first minute or so here, absolute perfection - People focus a lot on the technical innovations but Orson Welles performance is what really brings it home for me. It's a 5 star performance, much like the 5 star performance that Kenny Omega could probably put on in WWE under the new regime.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2022 15:09:39 GMT -5
If you think that's going to happen in the Levesque-era WWE considering how much money Kenny would cost, I'll sell you my ocean front property in Nebraska. It's the same thing people did with Cody, they get their jokes in before seeing that big money isn't being spent just for spite anymore, especially because Wrestler A's booking strength will make a difference on Wrestler B's level of interest down the line. Consider how Sting avoided signing with WWE for well over a decade, in part because TNA was easier money and were going to push him hard, anyway, but also because he saw what a shitshow the InVasion was for anybody short of like maybe Booker T. Booker was treated as a bit of a buffoon for a lot of it, but also got over and frankly, wasn't being treated THAT much better as a main eventer in WCW who was kind of a bland babyface champion who got regularly outsmarted or outgunned by Jarrett and Steiner. There is zero scenario where Kenny Omega doesn't get treated like the second coming in the WWE. I'm not saying he comes in and gets the belt off Roman in his debut match kind of booking, but pretty close. Paul Levesque (feels weird calling him that, but I guess that's what he goes by now officially) knows something Vince possibly knew, but was never going to accept: the days of WWE legends being used to pop a rating or a match or a Mania or whatever are pretty much done, so the surprises and big moments are going to have to come from things like Cody, an Omega, the Bucks, etc. On top of that, so-called "casual viewership" is diminishing rapidly in a world with such expanded entertainment options. Even so, I'm sure the casual viewer has no idea who Kenny Omega is, same as the casual viewer had no idea who Gargano is, but he's still going to be treated like a big, big deal. Oh, and if you don't think the OWA won't be treated like it could kill a cockroach... I'll take that bet, too.
|
|