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Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 15, 2022 13:35:59 GMT -5
Two anti heroes of the 2000s. Tony Soprano and Vic Mackey. Both had endings where things didnt work out perfect for them.
Vic Mackey made a deal with ICE where he got immunity for his crimes. But he had to give up his buddy who may have information on Vic he could trade for leniency. Also Vic has a job at ICE but since they feel betrayed by the extent of his crimes they put him in a soul crushing desk job where the slightest slip up could void his deal. Plus his family has run from him and is in protection.
Tony Soprano came out of the mob war alive but he lost his top guys. He has no chosen successor with Chris and Bobby dead. Money is down with his top earners like Ralphie and Vito dead. Carmines description of Jersey as a "glorified crew" has really come to pass and they will most likely be New Yorks lackeys from then on. Plus another of his top guys flipped and he is likely in for a long and expensive trial. In his personal life he has a crippling gambling addiction that has ended one friendship already (Hesh). And his pride and joy has decided against medical school to pursue being a mob lawyer, and marry another. Quite frankly he might be better off if he did get shot in the diner.
The guy who had the best was Walter White. He was dying anyway so he went down taking his enemies with him. And he had to swallow his pride and let his old friends take the credit but his family is provided for.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Sept 15, 2022 14:08:12 GMT -5
Well, Tony might have died, but as a mobster he had to have at least kind of anticipated that as an outcome. He tells Carm a couple times that she'll be taken care of, but whether that was true or not is debatable.
Vic ended up stuck in a job he hates but can't quit or even make a mistake at, surrounded by people who hate him and are just waiting for them to give him an excuse to send him to prison. Even if he makes it to the end of his required time, he'll still be infamous as all hell and likely blackballed from even a security guard position. Meanwhile tons of his old enemies will be looking to put a bullet in him if he's ever spotted.
With what we know, I think Vic got it worse.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 15, 2022 14:27:11 GMT -5
Well, Tony might have died, but as a mobster he had to have at least kind of anticipated that as an outcome. He tells Carm a couple times that she'll be taken care of, but whether that was true or not is debatable. Vic ended up stuck in a job he hates but can't quit or even make a mistake at, surrounded by people who hate him and are just waiting for them to give him an excuse to send him to prison. Even if he makes it to the end of his required time, he'll still be infamous as all hell and likely blackballed from even a security guard position. Meanwhile tons of his old enemies will be looking to put a bullet in him if he's ever spotted. With what we know, I think Vic got it worse. I lean towards Vic as well. He had everyone gunning for him and no allies left. But Tony would be better off if he was popped. He may have his family provided for at that time but with FBI making their case and the state of his business all of his money may have been gone soon. Even if that wasnt the case he might gamble it all away. |
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
BAU BAU
Posts: 39,173 
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Sept 15, 2022 17:55:03 GMT -5
Wait, Tony actually had an en-
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Clutchhausen
Don Corleone
Darby deserves better.
Posts: 1,733
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Post by Clutchhausen on Sept 15, 2022 21:31:29 GMT -5
Just commenting to say The Shield was a damn good show.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Sept 15, 2022 21:46:07 GMT -5
I'm gonna say something controversial (doubly so since I never actually watched the final seasons of one, and never saw the other)
The Shield did the "anti-hero turned villain protagonist getting his just deserts in the end" storyline better than Breaking Bad.
Vic may have survived unlike Walt, but for him there is no redemption. No tying up loose ends. No weaseling out of the consequences by dying a semi-heroic death. No he made his bed, and he has to lie in it and live with the consequences the rest of his life.
Walt by contrast got to take the easy way out. A better ending would have been the nazis killing Jessie and him, and the implication his family are either dead or going to be soon. That would better fit the tone and message the series was trying to convey.
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Post by jjohns828 on Sept 15, 2022 23:01:30 GMT -5
What I love about Vic's ending is he thought he was managing to pull that one last trick to get out of everything and to do so he exposed all his lies and crimes, and betrayed his last friend. Then it turns out all he gets is that desk job that he can't quit, Ronnie in prison likely hating his guts, his family gone in witness protection, and his reputation that he valued so much as the best cop in Farmington thoroughly burned to ground as he exposed himself as not just a criminal but a cop killer. That's a worse fate for him then any death he could have suffered. Easily one of my favorite character endings in television.
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Post by Andy Martin on Sept 16, 2022 0:36:34 GMT -5
Just commenting to say The Shield was a damn good show. An incredible, and dare I say under appreciated show. |
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Post by Andy Martin on Sept 16, 2022 0:39:16 GMT -5
I'm gonna say something controversial (doubly so since I never actually watched the final seasons of one, and never saw the other) The Shield did the "anti-hero turned villain protagonist getting his just deserts in the end" storyline better than Breaking Bad. Vic may have survived unlike Walt, but for him there is no redemption. No tying up loose ends. No weaseling out of the consequences by dying a semi-heroic death. No he made his bed, and he has to lie in it and live with the consequences the rest of his life. Walt by contrast got to take the easy way out. A better ending would have been the nazis killing Jessie and him, and the implication his family are either dead or going to be soon. That would better fit the tone and message the series was trying to convey. A “better” ending for Breaking Bad would have been everyone BUT Walt getting killed/in jail. Built an empire with nothing to show for it except still being a man dying with cancer, |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Sept 16, 2022 0:51:13 GMT -5
Just commenting to say The Shield was a damn good show. An incredible, and dare I say under appreciated show. My second favorite cop show of all time. Nothing can match its visceral intensity. |
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Post by Banjo Is Broken on Sept 16, 2022 2:19:21 GMT -5
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Post by jjohns828 on Sept 16, 2022 5:24:11 GMT -5
Just commenting to say The Shield was a damn good show. An incredible, and dare I say under appreciated show. I agree that it's under appreciated. I think the fact that it basically ran alongside The Wire, both 2002 to 2008, causes it to be overlooked sometimes because when people talk about the best cop shows of that period they focus on that instead of The Shield. |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Sept 16, 2022 6:30:56 GMT -5
An incredible, and dare I say under appreciated show. I agree that it's under appreciated. I think the fact that it basically ran alongside The Wire, both 2002 to 2008, causes it to be overlooked sometimes because when people talk about the best cop shows of that period they focus on that instead of The Shield. I would argue that. The Wire wasn't nearly as popular or well known as The Shield until the show ended. I feel like as time has gone by The Wire has grown in popularity while The Shield's has diminished. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 16, 2022 6:36:15 GMT -5
I'm gonna say something controversial (doubly so since I never actually watched the final seasons of one, and never saw the other) The Shield did the "anti-hero turned villain protagonist getting his just deserts in the end" storyline better than Breaking Bad. Vic may have survived unlike Walt, but for him there is no redemption. No tying up loose ends. No weaseling out of the consequences by dying a semi-heroic death. No he made his bed, and he has to lie in it and live with the consequences the rest of his life. Walt by contrast got to take the easy way out. A better ending would have been the nazis killing Jessie and him, and the implication his family are either dead or going to be soon. That would better fit the tone and message the series was trying to convey. I think the main difference is Vic was irredeemable from the first episode. They played him up through the episode as an anti hero. Being dirty because it was more effective than doing things the proper way. But then he murders a fellow cop to protect himself. Walt was a weak, selfish, prideful man who had good intentions but let his weaknesses keep him from making the responsible choice. We actually got to see him become irredeemable. |
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Post by jjohns828 on Sept 16, 2022 6:37:36 GMT -5
I agree that it's under appreciated. I think the fact that it basically ran alongside The Wire, both 2002 to 2008, causes it to be overlooked sometimes because when people talk about the best cop shows of that period they focus on that instead of The Shield. I would argue that. The Wire wasn't nearly as popular or well known as The Shield until the show ended. I feel like as time has gone by The Wire has grown in popularity while The Shield's has diminished. I would agree with that assessment, The Shield was more popular at the time and The Wire was under appreciated but as The Wire has gotten the respect it deserved it has taken some of the attention away from The Shield to the point where I think it doesn't always get the attention it deserves when talking about great shows from that period. |
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Glitch
Grimlock
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,787
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Post by Glitch on Sept 16, 2022 6:42:13 GMT -5
I misread the title as Tony or Vince, and wondered why it wasn't in wrest of wrestling.
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