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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 1:46:01 GMT -5
(...) Rhea is as of this moment probably the only gal that is able to get thru horse(women) bullshit and make a statement in the ring. đ€ I've high hopes Weapon's Wild at Halloween Havoc gets a chance to deliver. These gals are young yet already so good in the ring. Roxy and Cora deserve moments now, not tomorrow!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 1:53:13 GMT -5
That being said. I'm happy that Iyo gets showcased. I do hope Bayley puts him over in the close future. Not really excited about Bayley vs. Bianca. đ©
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 19, 2022 2:48:14 GMT -5
What are the wrestling companies meant to do here? Literally every wrestler has a cabal of fans who live for their every move and curse out the company they work for for not giving them anything or not giving them enough. I mean, Iâve come across the Dana Brooke stans. They exist. I therefore donât doubt that they exist for literally every other wrestler.
Like, are the belts literally meant to be like a game of pass the parcel? Pass it around and give everyone a turn so nobody gets left out? At the same time though, we expect things to be booked as some kind of implied meritocracy (that being, the best talents should be the champions), but there is literally no uniformly objective way of having each wrestler prove that. No matter what anyone does, someone is going to be upset because their favourite isnât being pushed. The people making it may change, but the noise literally never stops.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 8:59:24 GMT -5
What are the wrestling companies meant to do here? Literally every wrestler has a cabal of fans who live for their every move and curse out the company they work for for not giving them anything or not giving them enough. I mean, Iâve come across the Dana Brooke stans. They exist. I therefore donât doubt that they exist for literally every other wrestler. Like, are the belts literally meant to be like a game of pass the parcel? Pass it around and give everyone a turn so nobody gets left out? At the same time though, we expect things to be booked as some kind of implied meritocracy (that being, the best talents should be the champions), but there is literally no uniformly objective way of having each wrestler prove that. No matter what anyone does, someone is going to be upset because their favourite isnât being pushed. The people making it may change, but the noise literally never stops. The easiest way to overcome this IMO is to give the women worthwhile angles even if they are not revolving around the title and that is a very big problem for a large portion of them right now. I said it already but to me the women doing stories/angles away from the title are much better off right now.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 19, 2022 9:14:06 GMT -5
What are the wrestling companies meant to do here? Literally every wrestler has a cabal of fans who live for their every move and curse out the company they work for for not giving them anything or not giving them enough. I mean, Iâve come across the Dana Brooke stans. They exist. I therefore donât doubt that they exist for literally every other wrestler. Like, are the belts literally meant to be like a game of pass the parcel? Pass it around and give everyone a turn so nobody gets left out? At the same time though, we expect things to be booked as some kind of implied meritocracy (that being, the best talents should be the champions), but there is literally no uniformly objective way of having each wrestler prove that. No matter what anyone does, someone is going to be upset because their favourite isnât being pushed. The people making it may change, but the noise literally never stops. The easiest way to overcome this IMO is to give the women worthwhile angles even if they are not revolving around the title and that is a very big problem for a large portion of them right now. I said it already but to me the women doing stories/angles away from the title are much better off right now. Which is fair, I mean look at Rhea Ripley, she hadnât even had a match for four and a half months up until yesterday, and sheâs probably more over right now than most people on the roster, male or female. But what are our expectations here? Should every woman on the roster be in an active storyline? Should those storylines be advanced each and every week or every other week? Is there enough time to grant those advancements, either in terms of the overall available runtime or the percentage of available runtime relative to what the much larger male roster gets? Iâm probably overthinking the f*** out of this, because I always do, but it comes from a good place. Iâm just trying to figure out THE solution which that makes as many people as practically possible happy, and itâs damn hard.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 9:38:10 GMT -5
The easiest way to overcome this IMO is to give the women worthwhile angles even if they are not revolving around the title and that is a very big problem for a large portion of them right now. I said it already but to me the women doing stories/angles away from the title are much better off right now. Which is fair, I mean look at Rhea Ripley, she hadnât even had a match for four and a half months up until yesterday, and sheâs probably more over right now than most people on the roster, male or female. But what are our expectations here? Should every woman on the roster be in an active storyline? Should those storylines be advanced each and every week or every other week? Is there enough time to grant those advancements, either in terms of the overall available runtime or the percentage of available runtime relative to what the much larger male roster gets? Iâm probably overthinking the f*** out of this, because I always do, but it comes from a good place. Iâm just trying to figure out THE solution which that makes as many people as practically possible happy, and itâs damn hard. My bar for storytelling is LU because to me no company in wrestling has ever done a better job of balancing and weaving both character and storylines from the top of their roster to the bottom like they did and they did not always use everyone every week. I would take lessons from them IMO if I was trying to figure this issue out....do the same women need their stories advanced every week? IMO not at all but if they did want to then this is where filming vingettes on the non TV days would come in handy this way you do not have to even trot them out live to the audience and this way you allow the other women to get ring time. The issue and the solution IMO are one in the same..story and characters.
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Post by mistery on Oct 19, 2022 9:40:34 GMT -5
I'm going to use Damage CTRL as the example here, since this is their thread.
They came into Summerslam as a hot new act. People were excited for three (technically two since Bayley was already an established main eventer) new acts to rise to the top of the division. Except then Triple H in his infinite wisdom, fed them almost every week to Bianca. Which while it makes Bianca look good, it makes Iyo and Dakota in particular look absolutely awful, and puts them deep in the hole when it comes to becoming credible again. All to put over a woman who doesn't need any more huge moments for awhile, considering she has the most prestigious career of any woman not named Charlotte or Becky at this point. Won the Royal Rumble, is undefeated at Wrestlemania, and has the second most protected booking in WWE, with only Roman being more protected.
And now Damage CTRL have go away heat with parts of the fan base, with people claiming they are overpushed (because they are damaged goods now because Triple H did not push them as strongly as he should have), and that they are taking away spots from "other hard working women who deserve the spotlight more, like Zelina, Aliyah, Doudrop, and Nikki". Like to say Damage CTRL has been poorly handled would be a massive understatement. And that's incredibly bad for Iyo and Dakota in particular, because now unless the stars align perfectly, neither one is going to be seen as a main event level woman, because WWE keeps making them look weak and feeding them to Bianca constantly. Like their credibility is shot to the point of where whenever they show up on TV, if you decide to search for Damage CTRL on social media, its a nonstop stream of people dump on them and demanding that Iyo and Dakota get fired because "they aren't good at all".
The worst part is this is entirely a self inflicted wound by WWE. Because having them lose the tag tournament finals to Raquel and Aliyah (for the sake of a swerve literally nobody wanted), and then just constantly get ran over by Bianca for months on end (while she no sells them as a threat) has completely killed any semblance of credibility they have as a group and as singles performers.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 19, 2022 9:54:23 GMT -5
Honestly, a lot of those people sound like weirdos. Like, if their argument for not liking Dakota Kai and Iyo Sky is âThey keep getting trucked by Belairâ and then they go âPush Zelina Vega, Doudrop and Nikki A.S.H.â who have spent most of the year being trucked by Belair (and if Aliyah was a heel on RAW, she wouldâve been too)⊠Then thatâs clearly not the issue they have with Kai and Sky, is it?
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffinâs Story on Oct 19, 2022 10:01:05 GMT -5
Honestly, a lot of those people sound like weirdos. Like, if their argument for not liking Dakota Kai and Iyo Sky is âThey keep getting trucked by Belairâ and then they go âPush Zelina Vega, Doudrop and Nikki A.S.H.â who have spent most of the year being trucked by Belair (and if Aliyah was a heel on RAW, she wouldâve been too)⊠Then thatâs clearly not the issue they have with Kai and Sky, is it? I mean, let's also be real - they're getting trucked in the sense that the babyface gets the best of the heel on TV. That's just standard booking. Kai and Sky still have a pretty decent win/loss record overall and just beat Bianca and Candice on Monday. Is Damage CTRL totally working? At this point, I do have to say not entirely, but there's a weird "Sky and Kai are doomed" narrative being driven by one or two posters here that just puzzles me and with respect to them, doesn't seem totally grounded in reality. Kai and Sky are on TV every week, sometimes on both shows. They're clearly in the company's future plans. WWE's made their choice in terms of top babyfaces and heels, and I honestly can't argue it too much. Bianca's clearly a superstar. I get the investment. Sometimes your favorites don't get the nod. Just look at Seth Rollins - in any other world, dude is probably the lead wrestler you build a company around. But he's in a world where Roman Reigns exists. It happens.
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Post by canceled4truth on Oct 19, 2022 11:02:07 GMT -5
Honestly, a lot of those people sound like weirdos. Like, if their argument for not liking Dakota Kai and Iyo Sky is âThey keep getting trucked by Belairâ and then they go âPush Zelina Vega, Doudrop and Nikki A.S.H.â who have spent most of the year being trucked by Belair (and if Aliyah was a heel on RAW, she wouldâve been too)⊠Then thatâs clearly not the issue they have with Kai and Sky, is it? I mean, let's also be real - they're getting trucked in the sense that the babyface gets the best of the heel on TV. That's just standard booking. Kai and Sky still have a pretty decent win/loss record overall and just beat Bianca and Candice on Monday. Is Damage CTRL totally working? At this point, I do have to say not entirely, but there's a weird "Sky and Kai are doomed" narrative being driven by one or two posters here that just puzzles me and with respect to them, doesn't seem totally grounded in reality. Kai and Sky are on TV every week, sometimes on both shows. They're clearly in the company's future plans. WWE's made their choice in terms of top babyfaces and heels, and I honestly can't argue it too much. Bianca's clearly a superstar. I get the investment. Sometimes your favorites don't get the nod. Just look at Seth Rollins - in any other world, dude is probably the lead wrestler you build a company around. But he's in a world where Roman Reigns exists. It happens. There's a nasty habit that people have when it comes to smark favorites that if they lose a match, or come out of a segment not on top, then it surely means WWE sees them as worthless and their career is all but over except for the jobbing. I understand the impulse â I've been definitely guilty of doing that with my faves in the past (see: the dude in my sig) â but there are times when it makes it genuinely impossible to have a rational discussion about said wrestler online. Daniel Bryan in the early 2010s was by far the worst case of it ever, but you still see it today with the likes of Asuka and, well, this thread.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 19, 2022 11:20:52 GMT -5
On the Alexa subject I'd really just put her back with Bray. It was an act that was working that people were digging and it didn't really stick around long enough to get played out.
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Post by J is Justice on Oct 19, 2022 13:02:23 GMT -5
On the Alexa subject I'd really just put her back with Bray. It was an act that was working that people were digging and it didn't really stick around long enough to get played out. Yeah. And like mj0mn0m said: she barely wrestled under that gimmick. Alexa seems to miss it, too.
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Post by theironyuppie on Oct 22, 2022 0:50:22 GMT -5
Thought they did well tonight, and they're definitely drawing out the personality differences between Kota and Iyo now, which is great:
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 22, 2022 1:32:18 GMT -5
Kaiâs actually on the longest win streak of her entire WWE run right now⊠a whopping four in a row. Which kind of says more about how she was used in NXT as opposed the main roster.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2022 7:32:17 GMT -5
Lastnight was largely why I have not written off this group despite obvious struggles because it is finally clicking together now.
Their roles are finally being defined by letting their personalities shine instead of them just letting Bayley being the centre piece and the other two just there to prop her up.
And in ring Dakota and IYO have not looked better as a team...they got double team antics going , I am loving that spot where Dakota baits them in and IYO hits her perfect springboard dropkick.
And speaking of IYO is looking more and more like her god-tier self , she isn't quite there yet but the more reps she gets in the more of her arsenal she dusts off...lastnight she did the roll through into the double stomp for the first time on the main roster I believe. Still waiting on her to do her double handspring into drop kick and suicide dive.
But again this group looks to finally be clicking in all the important ways..now it is just a matter of if WWE screws it the f*** up and does not let this group finally not only just overcome but move on past Bianca but we will see on Monday.
"IYO doesn't bite...hard"
Them being able to finally define their personalities is helping so much and what also helps is Bayley is basically delegating to them and not talking for them....Dakota is the rambling nutty one and IYO is the murdery aint got time for interview bullshit one.
Like I said this is finally starting to click.
I do find it interesting that IYO likes to say SHE won and then corrects to WE won....I can see this being a nice little forshadowing for things in the future much like how Dakota is the one all about getting Bayleys approval where as IYO seeks none.
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Post by mistery on Oct 22, 2022 23:15:07 GMT -5
So Iyo was trending all day on social media and I had to look into why. It's because KPOP Twitter found her Tornado DDT spot from last night and are comparing her to Park Bom (looks wise), and now they are stanning Iyo apparently. There's no force more dangerous on social media than KPOP fans. They are all agents of chaos basically.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Oct 22, 2022 23:32:37 GMT -5
So Iyo was trending all day on social media and I had to look into why. It's because KPOP Twitter found her Tornado DDT spot from last night and are comparing her to Park Bom (looks wise), and now they are stanning Iyo apparently. There's no force more dangerous on social media than KPOP fans. They are all agents of chaos basically. As someone who had to deal with BTS stans, can confirm. They are blindly loyal, and ready to amass in anger at a moments notice like a freaking culty-Voltron because you didn't get the name of one of the dudes right.
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Post by papagiorgio on Oct 23, 2022 9:56:40 GMT -5
So Iyo was trending all day on social media and I had to look into why. It's because KPOP Twitter found her Tornado DDT spot from last night and are comparing her to Park Bom (looks wise), and now they are stanning Iyo apparently. There's no force more dangerous on social media than KPOP fans. They are all agents of chaos basically. As someone who had to deal with BTS stans, can confirm. They are blindly loyal, and ready to amass in anger at a moments notice like a freaking culty-Voltron because you didn't get the name of one of the dudes right. Voltron shippers might be the absolute worse. I don't have much experience with KPOP fans thankfully. I think Iyo and Dakota are getting booked a little better lately. They are definitely not a lost cause. People thought Asuka was doomed at several points, but she has had a HOF type career.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 23, 2022 11:20:50 GMT -5
I still stick by my statement that WWE gambled that Naomi and Sasha would be back in the fold already when Damage CTRL started and that's why things have been so start and stop. To use an example I used before, it's like how they built the CWC up as Kota Ibushi vs Zack Sabre Jr the whole time, then as it gets closer to the end it turns out that neither have interest in signing WWE contracts at the time so they tried to pivot into making TJP a big deal.
It all just feels like there was a plan but not everybody agreed to it to me
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 12:41:21 GMT -5
I am particularly glad Sasha and Naomi have not returned because if Bianca's booking was already a bad enough detriment to Dmg Cntrls booking then Sasha and Naomi would have put the nail in the coffin before the group ever had a chance.
Because now they are finally starting to get into a bit of a groove and steadly getting better both with their in ring chemistry and just as a unit and this likely does not happen if Sasha and Naomi came back.
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