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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 8:52:53 GMT -5
I think IYO will be better off not only once she gets to back to being a singles competitor but shifting her to SD and that is just a gut feeling because that show has always been of the more relaxed enviroment and with it only being 2hrs things in ring have to be a bit faster and that obviously favors her.
the draft is gonna be real insight into what they are do with her over the next year depending on if she stays where she is or changes brands.
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J is Justice
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Post by J is Justice on Feb 28, 2023 9:21:39 GMT -5
I think IYO's been fine. She's been one of the few women's wrestlers to have any decent matches lately.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 28, 2023 9:25:38 GMT -5
I am flabbergasted I walked into a thread that blows up with alot of talk about IYO being mediocore..WTF The woman was not even fully healed when she returned and this is evidenced by those early matches where she clearly had not wrestled for however many months prior and currently has metal bolts in her foot which going by a photo posted couple months back you could still see how fresh the surgical scars still were on her foot. Going by what I have read about the healing time for a broken foot that requires surgery and the bolts she will have the choice to have them removed after a year and that is if the bone has healed correctly so it wont surprise me if she dissapears from TV in the not so distant future to have the bolts removed. But also of all the women atleast on the main roster IYO is the one you can look at it and see whether it is by choice or whatever she is holding back like 90% of the time beause most of her matches right now consist of her just bumping....that is literally all she did lastnight apart from her moonsaults. I mean this is a woman who had not even gotten her footing back yet is the only one to get anything remotely decent out of Alexa Bliss in the era of talk that Alexa is completely done and this also ties back into IYO holding back because against Alexa she clearly got to dictate and basically call that stuff with bliss which is why those two worked as well as they did together and it was faster paced and the same with the brief sprints with Asuka in which speed and hitting their marks with next to no hesitation was not an issue at all. Is it the STARDOM version if IYO? no and IMO it isn't because clearly she still can be when she gets to work the pace favorable to her but when she has to slog down with the rest of sloths she can't be , hell the Candice match was basically an extremely condenced version of their iconic takeover match which was the closest IYO has ever gotten to be her true self in the ring. Sorry for that rant but if there is gonna be some talk about IYO freaking Shirai being mediocore I feel it atleast deserves perspective and context IMO. Not talking about her talent level at various times as I thought she was amazing in NXT, but I have not been impressed with her in-ring work on the main roster at all. Maybe there are valid excuses for it, but it’s still the way I’ve seen it.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 28, 2023 9:27:53 GMT -5
I think IYO will be better off not only once she gets to back to being a singles competitor but shifting her to SD and that is just a gut feeling because that show has always been of the more relaxed enviroment and with it only being 2hrs things in ring have to be a bit faster and that obviously favors her. the draft is gonna be real insight into what they are do with her over the next year depending on if she stays where she is or changes brands. Iyo is somebody that would benefit from a midcard championship being around. Put it on her and let her have banger 10 minute matches every week if she's up for it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 9:29:23 GMT -5
I think IYO's been fine. She's been one of the few women's wrestlers to have any decent matches lately. Again she is the only woman (and she wasn't anywhere as healthy as she seems now) to get anything decent out of Alexa when no other woman could. And is why I do believe once she is no longer bogged down in any of this Dmg Cntrl slog it will get better for her...how much better? idk but it damn sure can't get worse than lastnight.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Feb 28, 2023 10:53:47 GMT -5
I find it hard to reconcile the idea that Damage Ctrl have been booked into oblivion to the point their WWE careers may be unsalvageable... but they have to be on the WM card. It was a running joke here a few months ago that Damage CTRL were always dead and they should all ask for their releases because they have no future in the company…then they would somehow end up keep main eventing Raws, dominating TV time more than probably any female act in wrestling and having key spots at the big PPVs. It’s like the boy who cried wolf after a while. Damage CTRL are indeed lame though. Bayley is the main issue for me. I said it in that other thread but I find this heel version of her beyond stale. Hopefully they do a big angle at Mania to end the group. Someone mentioned it elsewhere but basically the Rock/Hogan/Nash/Hall in 2002 segment. Bayley shows respect to Trish after their match to turn her face, IYO and Dakota get pissed and attack her until Trish saves Bayley and the faces pose to pop the crowd then post-Mania you’ve got babyface Bayley feuding with IYO and/or Dakota.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Feb 28, 2023 11:43:28 GMT -5
I find it hard to reconcile the idea that Damage Ctrl have been booked into oblivion to the point their WWE careers may be unsalvageable... but they have to be on the WM card. It was a running joke here a few months ago that Damage CTRL were always dead and they should all ask for their releases because they have no future in the company…then they would somehow end up keep main eventing Raws, dominating TV time more than probably any female act in wrestling and having key spots at the big PPVs. It’s like the boy who cried wolf after a while. Damage CTRL are indeed lame though. Bayley is the main issue for me. I said it in that other thread but I find this heel version of her beyond stale. Hopefully they do a big angle at Mania to end the group. Someone mentioned it elsewhere but basically the Rock/Hogan/Nash/Hall in 2002 segment. Bayley shows respect to Trish after their match to turn her face, IYO and Dakota get pissed and attack her until Trish saves Bayley and the faces pose to pop the crowd then post-Mania you’ve got babyface Bayley feuding with IYO and/or Dakota. Yeah, honestly Bayley sucks as a heel. It's like Sami pre-Bloodline where it just isn't working or believable.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Feb 28, 2023 12:02:21 GMT -5
I think that Bayley is suffering from the inevitable passage of time. She’s still decent enough in the ring, certainly nowhere near the bottom of the women’s division in that regard, but she’s approaching the same problems that the guys face as well. Call it Dolph Ziggler syndrome where you’re a good hand and always around to ever diminishing returns. I think that this is something that Sasha realized and was part of the reason that she left. If you’re always around then there’s no time for people to miss you and want to see you. I think that even Cody is proof of this, if dude had never left and he just lumbered around the midcard and maybe get some B-tier main events for the last 10 years would he be where he’s at now?
It’s probably even harder for the ladies actually because it’s either jump to AEW which has their own problems with the women’s division(and limited space) or do a run in Japan which is much more taxing on the body and some long haul travel on top of that.
TL;DR: Iyo and Dakota will probably be fine because they haven’t been overexposed on the main roster yet, but Bayley needs some time off and a character reboot.
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 28, 2023 12:11:00 GMT -5
My only opinion on Iyo right now is just that her calling Asuka "BITCH" is one of the only times WWE going that route with promos was actually really funny and earned. (Not like I don't love Asuka, I do, but her character was being patronizing, so it made total sense for Iyo to fire back with that.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 12:28:39 GMT -5
I thought SRS posed an interesting question when it came to Johnny Gargano and his lack of reactions on Raw and I think it is fair to apply it to a majority if not all the recent NXT people he brought back.
In short he asks why is it HHH nailed the formula for how all these talents got over but somehow is booking like he has no clue how they got over and is going against everything that worked for them.
And he uses the example of Johnny Gargano in the chamber who surprise surprise when he let Johnny Wrestling wrestle it f***ing worked.
And this got me thinking that this is exactly the same issue with IYO in particular.
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 28, 2023 12:43:53 GMT -5
Bayley also suffers from the fact that WWE doesn’t feel like they need to always protect her like they do women like Charlotte, Bianca, Ronda, etc.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 28, 2023 16:45:39 GMT -5
SRS thought the tag team match was so badly done that now even he's wondering if Vince is back in full creative control lmfao I hate to be this guy and me doing this isn't a shot at you, but SRS didn't think that. That's not who said that during the live stream. That was Denise Salcedo. SRS actually said that he still thinks HHH has final say. From the video - about 3 minutes and 38 seconds in: SRS: "I think 99% he has input on things but I feel like Triple H does have final say." Denise: "Look man, I really truly think that there's no way Vince's touch isn't on this show...We're 33 days away from Wrestlemania. We are WrestleMania season and got this episode of RAW? Aside from two, maybe three things, this show was not good." Here are Sean's comments on the tag match, which happened later in the show - about 1 hour and ten minutes in: SRS: "Lita did not look great in the ring. She's gotta get her legs underneath her for sure. There was some struggling there going on. Becky was carrying a lot. Trish Stratus runs in toward the end, it is an overbooked mess, I thought." He then threw it to Denise who kind of acknowledged that Lita wasn't great despite the fact that Denise likes her a lot. Then she threw it back to SRS. "SRS: I thought she [Lita] did great last year. They killed it at Crown Jewel or whatever." I saw you talking about it with a poster in another thread and I think that's maybe where you got it from, so wanted to call it out. The poster you got that information from has a very, very bad habit of either outright misinterpreting Meltzer and other journalists or just straight up taking things out of context and bending the truth to make points about their favorites. In this case, the poster said it was "SRS being flabbergasted at how bad the tag match was and that he wouldn't be surprised that Vince was in control" over in the RAW thread and as far as I can see, that kind of feels like a lie to me. SRS never said anything about the finish of the tag match making him think Vince was in control. Sure, he said it was bad, but I think there were some liberties taken when describing who said what. It keeps freaking happening which is why I go as far as transcribing stuff sometimes. I'm all for open discussions about this stuff and respectful discussion when we've all got different opinions, but it drives me crazy when people just exaggerate or fabricate stuff that a reporter says to give their point some credence. I was getting this info from peeps posting it in the RAW thread at the time, so my bad, I just thought it was funny but thanks for the clarification
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 28, 2023 16:50:10 GMT -5
Being used poorly and not given much of a spotlight partially explains the issue with Iyo, but it definitely goes deeper than that. Feel like her botching things or missing cues happens, like, all the time since her comeback. She's just plain not been delivering. Dakota's had a lot of the same problems around her, and probably less attempts to actually give her a spotlight, but feel like she rises to the occasion much more consistently.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 28, 2023 16:52:09 GMT -5
I hate to be this guy and me doing this isn't a shot at you, but SRS didn't think that. That's not who said that during the live stream. That was Denise Salcedo. SRS actually said that he still thinks HHH has final say. From the video - about 3 minutes and 38 seconds in: SRS: "I think 99% he has input on things but I feel like Triple H does have final say." Denise: "Look man, I really truly think that there's no way Vince's touch isn't on this show...We're 33 days away from Wrestlemania. We are WrestleMania season and got this episode of RAW? Aside from two, maybe three things, this show was not good." Here are Sean's comments on the tag match, which happened later in the show - about 1 hour and ten minutes in: SRS: "Lita did not look great in the ring. She's gotta get her legs underneath her for sure. There was some struggling there going on. Becky was carrying a lot. Trish Stratus runs in toward the end, it is an overbooked mess, I thought." He then threw it to Denise who kind of acknowledged that Lita wasn't great despite the fact that Denise likes her a lot. Then she threw it back to SRS. "SRS: I thought she [Lita] did great last year. They killed it at Crown Jewel or whatever." I saw you talking about it with a poster in another thread and I think that's maybe where you got it from, so wanted to call it out. The poster you got that information from has a very, very bad habit of either outright misinterpreting Meltzer and other journalists or just straight up taking things out of context and bending the truth to make points about their favorites. In this case, the poster said it was "SRS being flabbergasted at how bad the tag match was and that he wouldn't be surprised that Vince was in control" over in the RAW thread and as far as I can see, that kind of feels like a lie to me. SRS never said anything about the finish of the tag match making him think Vince was in control. Sure, he said it was bad, but I think there were some liberties taken when describing who said what. It keeps freaking happening which is why I go as far as transcribing stuff sometimes. I'm all for open discussions about this stuff and respectful discussion when we've all got different opinions, but it drives me crazy when people just exaggerate or fabricate stuff that a reporter says to give their point some credence. I was getting this info from peeps posting it in the RAW thread at the time, so my bad, I just thought it was funny but thanks for the clarification Honestly, not your fault at all and I may have been a tad grumpy when I posted my breakdown there, but it just seems to happen a lot with certain folks around these parts and it usually has to do with the same topic. In any event, onward!
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Post by mistery on Feb 28, 2023 17:20:38 GMT -5
Being used poorly and not given much of a spotlight partially explains the issue with Iyo, but it definitely goes deeper than that. Feel like her botching things or missing cues happens, like, all the time since her comeback. She's just plain not been delivering. Dakota's had a lot of the same problems around her, and probably less attempts to actually give her a spotlight, but feel like she rises to the occasion much more consistently. Iyo hasn't been missing many of her cues lately though. The last real notable botch she had was at War Games (which was a hot mess in general as everyone was sloppy), but otherwise she's been as crisp as you can get recently. There's only so much you can do weekly when you get like less than 10 minutes of time in the ring, because god forbid we don't get a 20+ minute Bloodline promo followed by the Street Profits getting their asses kicked for the ten thousandth time in the past six months. I looked it up on Cagematch, and Iyo has only had a whopping average of 7 minutes between her singles matches since the start of the year. 10 minutes if we want to count last year. As for her matches being rough, a lot of that can fall on the agent as well, as Petey Williams has been doing the majority of her matches, and a lot of the stuff he has been agenting has ended up being absolute garbage trash or not great. He agented the Bianca/Alexa match on RAW that everyone hated, and agents a lot of Damage CTRL stuff in general.
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 28, 2023 17:36:56 GMT -5
Triple H brought a lot of his NXT people back seemingly assuming that MR fans would know/be invested in them more than it turns out they are.
So they have been given little to do that is interesting and/or are not booked that strong.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 23:47:05 GMT -5
Goes back to the question SRS posed about why does HHH clearly know the formula in how to get these talents over (Gargano in the chamber as the example again) but he is not running with any of it on the main roster.
It is a question at the core of alot of issues that sadly we likely are not gonna get an anwser to.
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Post by gl83 on Mar 2, 2023 10:37:23 GMT -5
Supposedly, Lita has said that she wanted to put over an up-and-comers during this run. If that's the case, Dakota & IYO would best fit the bill. They're fairly new and could use the boost that a win over her would give them.
The other option would be Ronda/Shayna, but they really don't fit and really don't need the rub. I mean Ronda is already a 3-time Women's champion, so she's good; and Shayna is already established and her rub will probably come in her eventual feud with Ronda, where she finally "steps out of her shadow"(Liv & Nattie basically calling her a "dollar store Ronda" has to be hinting and teasing at something).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2023 11:15:56 GMT -5
Supposedly, Lita has said that she wanted to put over an up-and-comers during this run. If that's the case, Dakota & IYO would best fit the bill. They're fairly new and could use the boost that a win over her would give them. The other option would be Ronda/Shayna, but they really don't fit and really don't need the rub. I mean Ronda is already a 3-time Women's champion, so she's good; and Shayna is already established and her rub will probably come in her eventual feud with Ronda, where she finally "steps out of her shadow"(Liv & Nattie basically calling her a "dollar store Ronda" has to be hinting and teasing at something). If Lita wants that she should not have won on Monday but it is what it is as I am sure it was not her call. Put Lita in singles action against both IYO and Dakota and let her put them over individually.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 12:43:43 GMT -5
Lost the entire feud against Lita , Trish and Becky. I do not believe they ever got a one up in this entire feud it was as one sided as could be.
Don't look to be next in any contention for the womens tag titles
Lost at Mania
So what happens now? the obvious thing to do is break them up but if you do what do you do with them individually.
It is a real shitty situation for all three women because it is alot of talent being massively wasted.
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