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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 4, 2023 23:22:46 GMT -5
I'll be honest, the only women with a lot of star power that you listed above to me rn is Charlotte (and she is gone all the time now so it's not a major shakeup) and Asuka. I don't think Bayley is going to be drawing main event numbers anymore. And I like IYO and Dakota but they are just upper mid-card and no division dies because of that. Like is the difference between Piper Niven and Dakota Kai so significant that it will harm the division? I just don't see it rn. I don't think it's much of a take to say that Iyo was likely going to be pushed as a main pillar of the division once Damage CTRL broke up. But now that Vince is gone, who the hell knows. The problem now is that the division is stale as hell, which admittedly isn't entirely Vince's fault as Triple H kept feeding women to Bianca as well, but uh...yeah. It'll still be worse under Vince though, as we'll get ten thousand rematches between Bianca and probably Becky over the next six months probably, or whenever Charlotte decides to return. Plus at the time Triple H took over WWE was actively in the midst of tearing down the progress that had been made on the women's divisions, with everything in NXT at the time being SEXSEXSEXSEXSEX and it being rare for there to be two minutes worth of a women's match on SmackDown most weeks, so we're probably going straight back to that.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 4, 2023 23:24:20 GMT -5
In retrospect, building your entire Women's Revolution around four women and then barely giving a shit about anyone else except those four women and then not really having a backup plan when those four women leave, want to leave, or have one foot out the door, wasn't exactly the best gameplan
They talked a big game about women's wrestling but the tag titles are paperweights that only start getting teams formed to fight them like three weeks before Mania, and the only two women it's felt like they've built since the Horsewomen are Rhea and Bianca, and as it's evidently showing, that's not enough, especially when all Bianca's done is have a super push where she doesn't even sell half the time anymore and just wins
I said it for years and it's still true, they only book like three important girls between two damn brands, and it was unsustainable then, and it feels even less sustainable now when the ladder feels like "Two champions, maybe two other important girls at the time, and then warm bodies for those girls to beat over and over". It sucks, and it doesn't shock me if girls like Bayley and Asuka have just had it tbh.
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Post by john84 on Apr 4, 2023 23:31:11 GMT -5
Vince might have managed to run off two of the Four Horsewomen. THE two who had that iconic Takeover: Brooklyn match. And given her current, "Show up, work a couple months, bounce to something else," schedule it pretty much seems like Charlotte's probably eyeing the door too. Yeah, definitely starting to feel like we're edging closer to Charlotte exiting with the amount of time off she's been taking in the last 2-3 years. And if Bayley really is considering (demanding) a release grant than at this stage the only Horsewoman left standing would be Becky lol.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 5, 2023 2:02:14 GMT -5
Honestly when it comes to Sasha, Bayley, Asuka, and Charlotte (and I'll also lump in Naomi who left with Sasha and Alexa who has also been taking tons of time off the last few years) it probably is time for them to move on. They've all had/have been there for years and have pretty much done everything and worked with everyone. Really what else could you do with them that would be interesting?
I think they are due for an overhaul roster wise. Only problem is they don't have anyone nearly close to ready to fill the voids the departing stalwarts would leave. They would have Becky, Bianca, and Rhea as their top three which to be fair is a pretty good nucleus. However the problem is they would have very little support surrounding them both from a star power and talent standpoint. As mentioned Liv would be their fourth best overall talent and while she has value that's probably not preferable. They seem to want Raquel to be a big deal but the jury is still out on her. Then after that's it's mainly subpar talents who probably won't ever be anything and veterans who have either been damaged by years of not being booked well or who are also stale themselves.
I guess they could call up a couple of NXT women and rocket push them but they don't really have anyone down there right now that I feel would be qualified for that.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 5, 2023 4:19:39 GMT -5
Honestly when it comes to Sasha, Bayley, Asuka, and Charlotte (and I'll also lump in Naomi who left with Sasha and Alexa who has also been taking tons of time off the last few years) it probably is time for them to move on. They've all had/have been there for years and have pretty much done everything and worked with everyone. Really what else could you do with them that would be interesting? I think they are due for an overhaul roster wise. Only problem is they don't have anyone nearly close to ready to fill the voids the departing stalwarts would leave. They would have Becky, Bianca, and Rhea as their top three which to be fair is a pretty good nucleus. However the problem is they would have very little support surrounding them both from a star power and talent standpoint. As mentioned Liv would be their fourth best overall talent and while she has value that's probably not preferable. They seem to want Raquel to be a big deal but the jury is still out on her. Then after that's it's mainly subpar talents who probably won't ever be anything and veterans who have either been damaged by years of not being booked well or who are also stale themselves. I guess they could call up a couple of NXT women and rocket push them but they don't really have anyone down there right now that I feel would be qualified for that. Like, looking at my stats, Banks, Bayley, Asuka, Flair, Naomi and Bliss are (or were in some cases) among the most experienced women in the history of the company in terms of matches. Of that Top 25 list (covering 2002 to now), the only one whose stats there are incomplete is Trish Stratus, but even she only has about another 50 or so matches from 2000 and 2001 to count according to Cagematch. And Natalya's longevity is just straight up insane.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 5, 2023 4:40:17 GMT -5
In retrospect, building your entire Women's Revolution around four women and then barely giving a shit about anyone else except those four women and then not really having a backup plan when those four women leave, want to leave, or have one foot out the door, wasn't exactly the best gameplan They talked a big game about women's wrestling but the tag titles are paperweights that only start getting teams formed to fight them like three weeks before Mania, and the only two women it's felt like they've built since the Horsewomen are Rhea and Bianca, and as it's evidently showing, that's not enough, especially when all Bianca's done is have a super push where she doesn't even sell half the time anymore and just wins I said it for years and it's still true, they only book like three important girls between two damn brands, and it was unsustainable then, and it feels even less sustainable now when the ladder feels like "Two champions, maybe two other important girls at the time, and then warm bodies for those girls to beat over and over". It sucks, and it doesn't shock me if girls like Bayley and Asuka have just had it tbh. To add to your point, specifically the first one: As great as Sasha and Bayley were as an act in the period around the Pandemic, they did *so* much damage to the division by clowning absolutely everyone in the name of having a feud that nobody cared about because they waited way too long to have it
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 5, 2023 5:02:36 GMT -5
In retrospect, building your entire Women's Revolution around four women and then barely giving a shit about anyone else except those four women and then not really having a backup plan when those four women leave, want to leave, or have one foot out the door, wasn't exactly the best gameplan They talked a big game about women's wrestling but the tag titles are paperweights that only start getting teams formed to fight them like three weeks before Mania, and the only two women it's felt like they've built since the Horsewomen are Rhea and Bianca, and as it's evidently showing, that's not enough, especially when all Bianca's done is have a super push where she doesn't even sell half the time anymore and just wins I said it for years and it's still true, they only book like three important girls between two damn brands, and it was unsustainable then, and it feels even less sustainable now when the ladder feels like "Two champions, maybe two other important girls at the time, and then warm bodies for those girls to beat over and over". It sucks, and it doesn't shock me if girls like Bayley and Asuka have just had it tbh. To add to your point, specifically the first one: As great as Sasha and Bayley were as an act in the period around the Pandemic, they did *so* much damage to the division by clowning absolutely everyone in the name of having a feud that nobody cared about because they waited way too long to have it Still absolutely baffled they didn't just do it at Mania 36, especially given Bayley basically had a total filler match (that had Sasha in it) on that show anyway.
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Post by john84 on Apr 5, 2023 5:06:02 GMT -5
To add to your point, specifically the first one: As great as Sasha and Bayley were as an act in the period around the Pandemic, they did *so* much damage to the division by clowning absolutely everyone in the name of having a feud that nobody cared about because they waited way too long to have it Still absolutely baffled they didn't just do it at Mania 36, especially given Bayley basically had a total filler match (that had Sasha in it) on that show anyway. I know we technically got to see them face each other at Mania but it wasn't a one-on-one which I think is an absolute shame IMO. A one-on-one Banks v Bayley match at Mania was one of my dream Mania matches in the latter half of the 2010s and the first 2 years of the 20s. Ah well.
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Post by J is Justice on Apr 5, 2023 6:50:22 GMT -5
Sorry but I think the women's division was the only thing that was actually better under Vince. They had more time and more storylines. They were even main eventing RAW almost every week at one point. Remember that dumbass Naomi Vs. Sonya storyline? That was better than anything Triple H has given us, lol. Really, the only positive thing I can say is that he brought IYO and Dakota back.
Edit: After some thinking in the shower maybe it's more the division just hasn't improved rather than it being worse. That Queen of the Ring tournament under Vince still keeps me awake at night, lol.
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Post by Sparkybob on Apr 5, 2023 8:02:56 GMT -5
Sorry but I think the women's division was the only thing that was actually better under Vince. They had more time and more storylines. They were even main eventing RAW almost every week at one point. Remember that dumbass Naomi Vs. Sonya storyline? That was better than anything Triple H has given us, lol. Really, the only positive thing I can say is that he brought IYO and Dakota back. Edit: After some thinking in the shower maybe it's more the division just hasn't improved rather than it being worse. That Queen of the Ring tournament under Vince still keeps me awake at night, lol. I think it's a different booking philosophy. Vince might only book 6 women constantly so depth doesn't matter because it's about making your stars in the division look good. So realistically under Vince, it doesn't matter if your 8th best woman is Carmella or Emma, or Iyo Sky since they aren't going to get shine anyways. So weirdly enough if you just care about making stars Vince is no worse than Hunter for the women's division. But everything else I am less confident about so it's a matter of preference.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 5, 2023 11:36:34 GMT -5
Gonna repeat that I don't think there's a single chance that Asuka's recent tweet was anything but kayfabe to play up her going more heavily on the heel side.
That said, curious about the Bayley situation, and about some others, too: for as much money as WWE can offer, I have to imagine it's tough for some of the talent, especially the women, to tolerate working directly under a sex pest again now that his crimes are much more open public knowledge.
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 5, 2023 12:01:59 GMT -5
Asuka always was nowhere to be scene or heard from on Raw this week.
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Post by mistery on Apr 7, 2023 10:06:55 GMT -5
Gonna repeat that I don't think there's a single chance that Asuka's recent tweet was anything but kayfabe to play up her going more heavily on the heel side. That said, curious about the Bayley situation, and about some others, too: for as much money as WWE can offer, I have to imagine it's tough for some of the talent, especially the women, to tolerate working directly under a sex pest again now that his crimes are much more open public knowledge. Dave mentioned in this week's newsletter that it was very likely a Vince call to pull Bayley from RAW this week, and that he apparently might be wanting to break up Damage CTRL. Now this is entirely speculation on my part, but I would guess that Vince sees Dakota and Iyo as detriments to Bayley, which is why he's separating them. Not realizing that on screen they are a bunch of geeks, but behind the scenes, Dakota, Iyo, and Bayley are all super close knit. They are like the women's version of The New Day in that regard. So we'll see what happens on that front, because if they do break up, I don't see Vince letting Dakota or Iyo go over Bayley if they feud. Combine that with the Fightful Select report on Dakota, and yeah, I think Vince is gonna break them up, and out of the three, I think Dakota and Bayley will probably end up getting the spotlight more. Since Fightful reported Dakota worked massive amounts of overtime during Mania weekend, and Vince loves that kind of shit. Iyo's future is much more uncertain because remember that Vince didn't want her on the main roster because "we already have Asuka". And I don't see that mindset changing, unless more women backstage push to have her featured more and even then Vince will likely ignore them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 10:18:26 GMT -5
Well the good benefit of Vince letting IYO go would be getting to go back to STARDOM where there are an insane ammount of dream matches and even rematches waiting for her and she can go back to no longer having to hold back.
Her and the current iteration of SLK (my 2 fav womens wrestlers) throwing gawd damn hands is something I need.
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Post by mistery on Apr 7, 2023 10:27:09 GMT -5
Well the good benefit of Vince letting IYO go would be getting to go back to STARDOM where there are an insane ammount of dream matches and even rematches waiting for her and she can go back to no longer having to hold back. Her and the current iteration of SLK (my 2 fav womens wrestlers) throwing gawd damn hands is something I need. Yeah, Iyo is one of those talents I can unfortunately see getting the axe if cuts come around. Because despite having one of the highest social media growths of any superstar during WM week and finally starting to get over, Vince had zero desire to call her up. And in the latest newsletter, Dave made sure to point out that Iyo is on a very high tier contract, being paid "way more than she would in current STARDOM". Which is a lot. So if the upcoming cuts include talent, then Iyo is likely getting the axe, especially since Vince never wanted her on the main roster to begin with.
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Post by J is Justice on Apr 7, 2023 10:39:53 GMT -5
Gonna repeat that I don't think there's a single chance that Asuka's recent tweet was anything but kayfabe to play up her going more heavily on the heel side. That said, curious about the Bayley situation, and about some others, too: for as much money as WWE can offer, I have to imagine it's tough for some of the talent, especially the women, to tolerate working directly under a sex pest again now that his crimes are much more open public knowledge. Dave mentioned in this week's newsletter that it was very likely a Vince call to pull Bayley from RAW this week, and that he apparently might be wanting to break up Damage CTRL. Now this is entirely speculation on my part, but I would guess that Vince sees Dakota and Iyo as detriments to Bayley, which is why he's separating them. Not realizing that on screen they are a bunch of geeks, but behind the scenes, Dakota, Iyo, and Bayley are all super close knit. They are like the women's version of The New Day in that regard. So we'll see what happens on that front, because if they do break up, I don't see Vince letting Dakota or Iyo go over Bayley if they feud. Combine that with the Fightful Select report on Dakota, and yeah, I think Vince is gonna break them up, and out of the three, I think Dakota and Bayley will probably end up getting the spotlight more. Since Fightful reported Dakota worked massive amounts of overtime during Mania weekend, and Vince loves that kind of shit. Iyo's future is much more uncertain because remember that Vince didn't want her on the main roster because "we already have Asuka". And I don't see that mindset changing, unless more women backstage push to have her featured more and even then Vince will likely ignore them. Imagine thinking IYO or Dakota would be detrimental to anybody, lol.
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Post by mistery on Apr 7, 2023 10:43:09 GMT -5
Dave mentioned in this week's newsletter that it was very likely a Vince call to pull Bayley from RAW this week, and that he apparently might be wanting to break up Damage CTRL. Now this is entirely speculation on my part, but I would guess that Vince sees Dakota and Iyo as detriments to Bayley, which is why he's separating them. Not realizing that on screen they are a bunch of geeks, but behind the scenes, Dakota, Iyo, and Bayley are all super close knit. They are like the women's version of The New Day in that regard. So we'll see what happens on that front, because if they do break up, I don't see Vince letting Dakota or Iyo go over Bayley if they feud. Combine that with the Fightful Select report on Dakota, and yeah, I think Vince is gonna break them up, and out of the three, I think Dakota and Bayley will probably end up getting the spotlight more. Since Fightful reported Dakota worked massive amounts of overtime during Mania weekend, and Vince loves that kind of shit. Iyo's future is much more uncertain because remember that Vince didn't want her on the main roster because "we already have Asuka". And I don't see that mindset changing, unless more women backstage push to have her featured more and even then Vince will likely ignore them. Imagine thinking IYO or Dakota would be detrimental to anybody, lol. I mean Vince left them down in NXT when he went down to visit in July 2021 and instead opted to call up people like Aliyah who have been a complete bust, along with trying to push Lacey Evans multiple times over the past several years despite the fact that no one likes her and she's shown how much of an idiot she actually is.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 7, 2023 11:13:08 GMT -5
“Who needs IYO? We already have an Asian woman on the roster!” is so painfully on brand for that old rich bastard.
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Post by Totorob101 on Apr 7, 2023 11:16:04 GMT -5
I think letting Iyo go would be best for all parties as she clearly will not be used to her full potential with the E and will more then likely just disappear,job out or forced into a team with Asuka for obvious reasons. Letting her go will mean she has a ton of potential opportunities elsewhere and with AEW she would instantly be main event on a world stage with tons of talent to work with there. Under Vince she's pretty much done for.
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Post by mistery on Apr 7, 2023 11:18:06 GMT -5
I think letting Iyo go would be best for all parties as she clearly will not be used to her full potential with the E and will more then likely just disappear,job out or forced into a team with Asuka for obvious reasons. Letting her go will mean she has a ton of potential opportunities elsewhere and with AEW she would instantly be main event on a world stage with tons of talent to work with there. Under Vince she's pretty much done for. If Iyo leaves WWE or is released, she's likely heading back to Japan and retiring. She was pretty explicit in her interview on After The Bell that she has no desire to remain in the US if she isn't working for WWE. And I don't trust AEW to do right with her either (and I don't think she trusts them either). And she was pretty explicit in the past about having done literally everything she wanted to do in Japan.
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