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Post by SirLucas on Aug 1, 2024 23:09:36 GMT -5
We had the same conversation in off topic just a few days ago when a guy was getting mad at being allowed to have BLM stuff in signatures/names/etc. and also saying it's bullshit that they couldn't have pro choice stuff for "real women" instead of anyone being allowed to show support for trans people... even if there's literally millions of AFAB people who are transitioning to men. They said the same thing that this place has changed and saying "what happened to this place?" My question is, I remember when this place was pretty outright sexist and strange sometimes with the threads but was there outright making fun of trans people, gay people, black people, etc. back then? Did this place have a 180 from what they're saying was seemingly a paradise for them? I know it wasn't at all like it is now but I have a hard time believing it was some haven for stuff like that. The wrestling community is a microcosm of society at large. 25 years ago, the wrestling fandom was in many ways an unwelcoming cesspool of chauvinist machismo. Gradually, it has become more diverse and welcoming to people of all walks of life. Some people can’t handle that, so they lash out and then run away into echo chambers that validate their regressive beliefs. It’s why r/scjerk has turned into what it has, as just one example. When you mention that the wrestling community has become more diverse and welcoming, what specific changes have you observed that reflect this shift? You mentioned that some people lash out and retreat into echo chambers. What do you think motivates them to respond that way? Is it fear of change, or something else? You described the wrestling fandom 25 years ago as an “unwelcoming cesspool.” How do you define what it means for a community to be welcoming or unwelcoming? Are there nuances that might complicate this view?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 1, 2024 23:09:51 GMT -5
You guys are hating Logan Paul for the wrong reasons it's very important to me that nobody hates Logan Paul for any wrong, filthy, politicized reasons please reserve good judgment for your dislike of Logan Paul
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 1, 2024 23:10:25 GMT -5
We had the same conversation in off topic just a few days ago when a guy was getting mad at being allowed to have BLM stuff in signatures/names/etc. and also saying it's bullshit that they couldn't have pro choice stuff for "real women" instead of anyone being allowed to show support for trans people... even if there's literally millions of AFAB people who are transitioning to men. They said the same thing that this place has changed and saying "what happened to this place?" My question is, I remember when this place was pretty outright sexist and strange sometimes with the threads but was there outright making fun of trans people, gay people, black people, etc. back then? Did this place have a 180 from what they're saying was seemingly a paradise for them? I know it wasn't at all like it is now but I have a hard time believing it was some haven for stuff like that. The wrestling community is a microcosm of society at large. 25 years ago, the wrestling fandom was in many ways an unwelcoming cesspool of chauvinist machismo. Gradually, it has become more diverse and welcoming to people of all walks of life. Some people can’t handle that, so they lash out and then run away into echo chambers that validate their regressive beliefs. It’s why r/scjerk has turned into what it has, as just one example. Yeah it was definitely full of machismo and a super antagonistic environment but I swear I do not remember people straight up going out of their way to say any of these things with vitriol or actively making threads about them. I don't have the greatest memory but I do remember the term "gay" and whatever else being thrown around because that was definitely a product of the time, stuff like that I remember and it wasn't really seen as anything but a word to just "use" but outright threads and conversations about shit that now would be looked down upon when it comes to LGBTQ+? It feels like longing for a time that never happened because maybe more people felt a certain way? It was easier to be an asshole?
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,891
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Post by khali on Aug 1, 2024 23:10:37 GMT -5
What are we attacking Logan Paul for? His general stance of transgenders in sports or an accusation that Khelif is a biological male? It is important to make the distinction because the ones issue addresses the larger debate about fairness and policy in sports, while the second focuses on a personal accusation without sufficient evidence. It’s not important to make a distinction because there is no legitimate debate about sports policy regarding trans people.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 1, 2024 23:12:08 GMT -5
You have like 30 other people who quoted you before, there was an initial tweet that Logan deleted because WWE told him to shape up. If I were you, I would converse with them instead of people who want nothing to do with you. You yourself said "I just read" on the subject at hand right after preening about being the voice of reason, I do not want to talk to you. I respectfully asked for clarification. That still doesn't deserve a clarification from me as opposed to the dozens of other people actually replying to you directly. I think there can still be a conversation here but you had dozens of people to pick beforehand, I'm not stupid.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,766
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Post by Chiral on Aug 1, 2024 23:13:05 GMT -5
My mood when I see like twenty posts in a row that are like "just asking questions, here, let me throw out various dog whistles that make it REALLY clear what I want to say I'm gonna but dance around it. I'm also gonna try to make it seems like other people who say bigotry is bad are the real meanies for not respecting my polite big word discourse, no I will not stop posting ever"
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Aug 1, 2024 23:17:07 GMT -5
You have like 30 other people who quoted you before, there was an initial tweet that Logan deleted because WWE told him to shape up. If I were you, I would converse with them instead of people who want nothing to do with you. You yourself said "I just read" on the subject at hand right after preening about being the voice of reason, I do not want to talk to you. I respectfully asked for clarification. I’ll bite. My honest opinion on the issue of trans people in sports is that I believe in basic human rights, and that someone should not be outright prohibited from competing in sport simply because of their gender identity. There are professionals trained to assess whether a person’s biological makeup, trans or otherwise, places them at an unfair competitive advantage over others. I defer to those professionals. But, this is also completely manufactured outrage. For some reason, the issue of trans people in sports has become a hot button political issue in the United States when .6% of the population is trans and roughly .1% of that .6% will ever even be in a position to compete in sport at the highest level. I suspect you can count on one hand the number of times that a “biological male” has been allowed to compete with a “biological female” in a combat sport because of the protocols and protections that have always been in place. So am I “criticizing” Logan Paul’s opinion that “men shouldn’t be allowed to beat up women?” Obviously not. But I am criticizing Logan Paul for making an ignorant, ill-informed, statement for no other reason than to use his celebrity to further sow the seeds of bigotry and hate that currently pervade the USA in the name of making a hackneyed political statement that doesn’t even need to be made. I promise you, dude, no “failed male athletes” are going through the arduous, traumatic, and socially stigmatizing process of gender reassignment to try and make $80,000 a year in the WNBA, much less $22,000 a year in international boxing. Every trans person I’ve ever known really just wants to be able to live their lives without complete weirdos in red hats being hyperfixated on what’s in their pants.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 31,615
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Post by lionheart21 on Aug 1, 2024 23:19:41 GMT -5
I respectfully asked for clarification. I’ll bite. My honest opinion on this issue of trans people in sports is that I believe in basic human rights, and that someone should not be outright prohibited from competing in sport simply because of their gender identity. There are professionals trained to assess whether a person’s biological makeup, trans or otherwise, places them at an unfair competitive advantage over others. I defer to those professionals. But, this is also completely manufactured outrage. For some reason, the issue of trans people in sports has become a hot button political issue in the United States when .6% of the population is trans and roughly .1% of that .6% will ever even be in a position to compete in sport at the highest level. I suspect you can count on one hand the number of times that a “biological male” has been allowed to compete with a “biological female” in a combat sport because of the protocols and protections that have always been in place. So am I “criticizing” Logan Paul’s opinion that “men shouldn’t be allowed to beat up women?” Obviously not. But I am criticizing Logan Paul for making an ignorant, ill-informed, statement for no other reason than to use his celebrity to further sow the seeds of bigotry and hate that currently pervade the USA in the name of making a hackneyed political statement that doesn’t even need to be made. I promise you, dude, no “failed male athletes” are going through the arduous, traumatic, and socially stigmatizing process of gender reassignment to try and make $80,000 a year in the WNBA, much less $22,000 a year in international boxing. Every trans person I’ve ever known really just wants to be able to live their lives without complete weirdos in red hats being hyperfixated on what’s in their pants. You honestly put that better than I think I could have. Thank you.
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Post by Error on Aug 1, 2024 23:21:13 GMT -5
If you feel it is necessary to "discuss" a person's place in sports based on their gender, I don't think this board is the place for you.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 1, 2024 23:24:33 GMT -5
The wrestling community is a microcosm of society at large. 25 years ago, the wrestling fandom was in many ways an unwelcoming cesspool of chauvinist machismo. Gradually, it has become more diverse and welcoming to people of all walks of life. Some people can’t handle that, so they lash out and then run away into echo chambers that validate their regressive beliefs. It’s why r/scjerk has turned into what it has, as just one example. When you mention that the wrestling community has become more diverse and welcoming, what specific changes have you observed that reflect this shift? You mentioned that some people lash out and retreat into echo chambers. What do you think motivates them to respond that way? Is it fear of change, or something else? You described the wrestling fandom 25 years ago as an “unwelcoming cesspool.” How do you define what it means for a community to be welcoming or unwelcoming? Are there nuances that might complicate this view? The more that you try to turn this into a philosophical circlejerk of defining terms to try and weasel your way into saying-not-saying something, the more you come off like an unsubtle bigot. If you genuinely are not, please take a moment to consider how this is coming off and stop. People are giving you a lot of answers you're barely engaging with while you shift focus and answers into a million other places, and things like "How do you define if a community is welcoming?" when it's very obvious what is meant by the open homophobia, transphobia, racism, and sexism of message boards and internet culture past, feel like diversions to try and take the conversation into more places that only serve to leave people running in circles. Again, if this isn't what you're trying to do, just tkae a step back. Reread this. It's not coming off well.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 1, 2024 23:24:35 GMT -5
I respectfully asked for clarification. I’ll bite. My honest opinion on the issue of trans people in sports is that I believe in basic human rights, and that someone should not be outright prohibited from competing in sport simply because of their gender identity. There are professionals trained to assess whether a person’s biological makeup, trans or otherwise, places them at an unfair competitive advantage over others. I defer to those professionals. But, this is also completely manufactured outrage. For some reason, the issue of trans people in sports has become a hot button political issue in the United States when .6% of the population is trans and roughly .1% of that .6% will ever even be in a position to compete in sport at the highest level. I suspect you can count on one hand the number of times that a “biological male” has been allowed to compete with a “biological female” in a combat sport because of the protocols and protections that have always been in place. So am I “criticizing” Logan Paul’s opinion that “men shouldn’t be allowed to beat up women?” Obviously not. But I am criticizing Logan Paul for making an ignorant, ill-informed, statement for no other reason than to use his celebrity to further sow the seeds of bigotry and hate that currently pervade the USA in the name of making a hackneyed political statement that doesn’t even need to be made. I promise you, dude, no “failed male athletes” are going through the arduous, traumatic, and socially stigmatizing process of gender reassignment to try and make $80,000 a year in the WNBA, much less $22,000 a year in international boxing. Every trans person I’ve ever known really just wants to be able to live their lives without complete weirdos in red hats being hyperfixated on what’s in their pants. thank you as well, means a lot
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Aug 1, 2024 23:24:55 GMT -5
Anyway, we better have someone ask Triple H a question about this at the Summerslam press scrum.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 31,615
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Post by lionheart21 on Aug 1, 2024 23:26:57 GMT -5
Anyway, we better have someone ask Triple H a question about this at the Summerslam press scrum. For his sake, Triple H better be prepared for that one. Otherwise, we might end up getting a entire thread just based off of that response.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Aug 1, 2024 23:28:44 GMT -5
Anyway, we better have someone ask Triple H a question about this at the Summerslam press scrum. For his sake, Triple H better be prepared for that one. Otherwise, we might end up getting a entire thread just based off of that response. My early prediction is it’ll be a “I haven’t even seen the tweet” style of answer.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 31,615
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Post by lionheart21 on Aug 1, 2024 23:29:58 GMT -5
For his sake, Triple H better be prepared for that one. Otherwise, we might end up getting a entire thread just based off of that response. My early prediction is it’ll be a “I haven’t even seen the tweet” style of answer. Given that Logan Paul has since deleted the tweet, this is a good bet, unfortunately.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 1, 2024 23:30:45 GMT -5
For his sake, Triple H better be prepared for that one. Otherwise, we might end up getting a entire thread just based off of that response. My early prediction is it’ll be a “I haven’t even seen the tweet” style of answer. I know he won't say something but I sure hope he does because the next closest competitor has outright shown support for all people. I get that wrestling is infested with people that I or many people in here probably wouldn't want to hang out with personally but there is a clear divide in how each company treats this subject at least. It is night and day. I really hope he says something.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Aug 1, 2024 23:31:06 GMT -5
man seeing such brazen chest puffing shit like that when you can go back not even a full page and see she is biologically female REALLY hammers home the sense of dread I have for this woman. I hope she has good bodyguards or people around her because holy shit, she is going to be going through it for a while and for what? that's someone's daughter dude. shit just gives me the worst feeling I am not denying she's not a biological male. I just read she previously failed tests for possessing high testosterone levels of chromosomal variance. Here's is Logan Paul's quote. "I might be guilty of spreading misinformation along with the entirety of this app Although she’s been previously disqualified for failing a “gender test” and has XY chromosomes, some sources say Imane Khelif was born a biological woman I stand by my sentiment that biological men should not compete against biological women in any sport and if you disagree you’re a sick f***." Uh she is from Algeria, she would be prosecuted for being trans. Quit with the just asking questions stuff that you've done before
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 1, 2024 23:34:09 GMT -5
man seeing such brazen chest puffing shit like that when you can go back not even a full page and see she is biologically female REALLY hammers home the sense of dread I have for this woman. I hope she has good bodyguards or people around her because holy shit, she is going to be going through it for a while and for what? that's someone's daughter dude. shit just gives me the worst feeling I am not denying she's not a biological male. I just read she previously failed tests for possessing high testosterone levels of chromosomal variance. Here's is Logan Paul's quote. "I might be guilty of spreading misinformation along with the entirety of this app Although she’s been previously disqualified for failing a “gender test” and has XY chromosomes, some sources say Imane Khelif was born a biological woman I stand by my sentiment that biological men should not compete against biological women in any sport and if you disagree you’re a sick f***." Weird.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Aug 1, 2024 23:35:30 GMT -5
My early prediction is it’ll be a “I haven’t even seen the tweet” style of answer. I know he won't say something but I sure hope he does because the next closest competitor has outright shown support for all people. I get that wrestling is infested with people that I or many people in here probably wouldn't want to hang out with personally but there is a clear divide in how each company treats this subject at least. It is night and day. I really hope he says something. Totally agree. It’s very, very important for anyone with a platform to speak out and say the right thing, especially when so many other prominent people are spewing hate.
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Aug 1, 2024 23:36:32 GMT -5
If this escalates even further, I expect the US Title match to just happen on Smackdown tomorrow with LA Knight winning then they slot in another match for Summerslam. IMO LA Knight should still get big PPV win. Have him beat the Warrior/Honkey Tonk Man record by beating Paul in one move. Then if we didn't live in the Darkest Timeline, HHH would go up to Paul after the match and say what Warrior was told at Summerlam 1991 (IIRC): "you're fired, get the f*** out of here".
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