jm
Hank Scorpio
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Post by jm on Aug 3, 2024 23:54:57 GMT -5
I really thought somebody would ask about it at the press conference. Incredibly disappointing all around. You should by now that 2024 has shown that the "wrestling media" at large are nothing more than groveling marks masquerading as "journalists" who will pretend to be so just so they can get access to the biggest wrestling company in the world. And if that means not stepping on any toes and not actually acting like journalists and asking legitimate serious questions, then so be it.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Aug 3, 2024 23:55:56 GMT -5
I can’t wait for Logan Paul to inevitably win a championship in Saudi Arabia. He actually DID win the US title there, because this company is a parody of itself. Yeesh…thankfully I had somehow missed that. What a joke.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Aug 4, 2024 0:08:24 GMT -5
I guess you can make a case that it was a deleted tweet made during Paul's own personal time and outside of his capacity as a WWE wrestler and tons of people tweet about divisive social issues without it affecting their job/employers even if they tweet thoughtlessly. BUT after that French guy got bullied by WWE PR after asking a Ronda/Gulak question (genuinely upsetting HHH apparently), and you have little cliques of journos who help each other out and would look dimly on an outsider who might rock the boat and get their "treats" taken away it's likely that they are beginning to self-censor and we will see more of it. No more Vince/Saudi/Other Skeleton in the Closet questions. These are guys who write about fake fighting and have (barely) found a way to monetize their blogging hobby. We aren't talking about AP guys charging into gunfire in Nam to win a Pulitzer here.
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Post by Goldash #BLM on Aug 4, 2024 0:22:27 GMT -5
I actually skipped 95% of that match and more and more I'm feeling like that was the right choice. I heard Pat and Corey talk about how they respected him and just noped out (I was behind the live telecast so I was able to fast forward). it got a lot worse, it was just this… i don’t know the word for it. I kinda zoned out because I wanted the shit to be over and just looked at it like two stick figures fighting lol on second listen is when I’m like hey ayo I almost felt the same way, I really wasn't paying attention and only wanted the inevitable Knight win so I kinda filtered everything out apart from the boos. That "you still suck" chant that followed the dive, I dunno. To me, that's, like, always been for heels that the audience ironically respects (e.g. Angle or Callis-era Ospreay/Takeshita). I personally wouldn't ever chant that at Paul but I'd likely wouldn't have made a difference if I were there live tonight :/
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 4, 2024 0:25:37 GMT -5
it got a lot worse, it was just this… i don’t know the word for it. I kinda zoned out because I wanted the shit to be over and just looked at it like two stick figures fighting lol on second listen is when I’m like hey ayo I almost felt the same way, I really wasn't paying attention and only wanted the inevitable Knight win so I kinda filtered everything out apart from the boos. That "you still suck" chant that followed the dive, I dunno. To me, that's, like, always been for heels that the audience ironically respects (e.g. Angle or Callis-era Ospreay/Takeshita). I personally wouldn't ever chant that at Paul but I'd likely wouldn't have made a difference if I were there live tonight :/ it’s a bit of this and bit of that for me, I can’t remember if the crowds usually say f*** you logan but they did say it a good bit. I just realized we’re so sick of this dude and the hatred that was going on that we were probably dissociating, lmao. damn
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ayumidah
Patti Mayonnaise
DOOM TIME!!!!!
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Post by ayumidah on Aug 4, 2024 0:28:23 GMT -5
it got a lot worse, it was just this… i don’t know the word for it. I kinda zoned out because I wanted the shit to be over and just looked at it like two stick figures fighting lol on second listen is when I’m like hey ayo I almost felt the same way, I really wasn't paying attention and only wanted the inevitable Knight win so I kinda filtered everything out apart from the boos. That "you still suck" chant that followed the dive, I dunno. To me, that's, like, always been for heels that the audience ironically respects (e.g. Angle or Callis-era Ospreay/Takeshita). I personally wouldn't ever chant that at Paul but I'd likely wouldn't have made a difference if I were there live tonight :/ My computer crashed right after Pat and Corey said that and didn't come back until just before Knight won and I was like, damn even my computer doesn't want to hear anymore of this lol
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 4, 2024 0:37:59 GMT -5
I said it in the Summerslam Thread but I feel so bad for any trans people who are fans of WWE and basically just got told they don't matter by HHH praising a dude who doubled down on being Transphobic recently WWE really is just lipstick on a pig with Vince gone, the shit that actually needed to change, won't, it's the same disgusting shit This bald bozo learned NOTHING from defending Patrick Clark and I hope karma bites him square in the f***ing ass. Like wrestling in general is f***ed for trans folk like how the world feels right now but... (not to make this tribalistic but WELPPPPPP here goes) AEW has actual trans folk wrestle and win championships, there are gay indies that are incredibly welcoming, while WWE props up the people who f***ing hate us and call us pure evil that need to be taken care of aka eradicated while also being like oh gosh golly ya know people who say that CONTROVERSIAL~ shit are sooooo talented so you can't really be mean to them OK? If you're being mean you're the real baddie OK?!?! I am not gonna forget how WWE has handled this week. For a company that has had so many blemishes, this is probably a nothing in the grand scheme of things, but I won't forget this. Back last summer when Punk came back on a lot of peoples' shit list, I remember standing up for him and his pro-trans messaging when he came back as being sincere, because that was a summer where a bunch of stochastic terrorism saw retail employees being harassed so hard that stores took down their Pride Month displays and a lot of them this year had none entirely to avoid incurring that wrath again. The fairweather support from company who want to rainbow-ify their logo and then bail the moment anything else can be done is tiring and I'm done with it. WWE proved itself here by baking defenses of Logan Paul's transphobia into their literal wrestling show product. Not just sticking by their guy outside of it but going for genuine defenses of him after he spread bigoted misinformation. And they didn't do that just like on a whim. This wasn't commentary going rogue; f***, one of the guys in the booth making those same defenses said just as vile a bout of drivel on this topic on his podcast. It's clear where WWE stands on it. Remember that. Next time they go for some PR points, remember how egregious this was, and how they responded by polishing his dick on commentary instead. They don't deserve the benefit of our doubt, and no amount of gladhanding video packages in June or tweets pretending to give a shit will change that. WWE ownership is the same as UFC's ownership, where so many of the top fighters just get to say horrific bigot shit on a daily basis and nothing matters. WWE is no different.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 4, 2024 0:42:57 GMT -5
Like wrestling in general is f***ed for trans folk like how the world feels right now but... (not to make this tribalistic but WELPPPPPP here goes) AEW has actual trans folk wrestle and win championships, there are gay indies that are incredibly welcoming, while WWE props up the people who f***ing hate us and call us pure evil that need to be taken care of aka eradicated while also being like oh gosh golly ya know people who say that CONTROVERSIAL~ shit are sooooo talented so you can't really be mean to them OK? If you're being mean you're the real baddie OK?!?! I am not gonna forget how WWE has handled this week. For a company that has had so many blemishes, this is probably a nothing in the grand scheme of things, but I won't forget this. Back last summer when Punk came back on a lot of peoples' shit list, I remember standing up for him and his pro-trans messaging when he came back as being sincere, because that was a summer where a bunch of stochastic terrorism saw retail employees being harassed so hard that stores took down their Pride Month displays and a lot of them this year had none entirely to avoid incurring that wrath again. The fairweather support from company who want to rainbow-ify their logo and then bail the moment anything else can be done is tiring and I'm done with it. WWE proved itself here by baking defenses of Logan Paul's transphobia into their literal wrestling show product. Not just sticking by their guy outside of it but going for genuine defenses of him after he spread bigoted misinformation. And they didn't do that just like on a whim. This wasn't commentary going rogue; f***, one of the guys in the booth making those same defenses said just as vile a bout of drivel on this topic on his podcast. It's clear where WWE stands on it. Remember that. Next time they go for some PR points, remember how egregious this was, and how they responded by polishing his dick on commentary instead. They don't deserve the benefit of our doubt, and no amount of gladhanding video packages in June or tweets pretending to give a shit will change that. WWE ownership is the same as UFC's ownership, where so many of the top fighters just get to say horrific bigot shit on a daily basis and nothing matters. WWE is no different. bringing up Punk also makes me wonder if they told him to say nothing. for as much as the two of you and myself included have said our own pieces about not liking the guy since stuff happened, he was adamant with a gusto about trans rights and anyone who went against that, he went hard in the paint for it. from what I can tell now… nothing. doesn’t lessen how nice it was to have that support especially when that summer felt like one wrong move and you’re gonna get shot or something but other than Isla, who else said anything in the company? not a reflection of the employees but maybe a mandate from up top saying you’re not going to talk about this or this is our views and that’s that. did you happen to listen to the commentary during that match? like what does WWE expect us to do after the last week?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 4, 2024 0:54:21 GMT -5
Back last summer when Punk came back on a lot of peoples' shit list, I remember standing up for him and his pro-trans messaging when he came back as being sincere, because that was a summer where a bunch of stochastic terrorism saw retail employees being harassed so hard that stores took down their Pride Month displays and a lot of them this year had none entirely to avoid incurring that wrath again. The fairweather support from company who want to rainbow-ify their logo and then bail the moment anything else can be done is tiring and I'm done with it. WWE proved itself here by baking defenses of Logan Paul's transphobia into their literal wrestling show product. Not just sticking by their guy outside of it but going for genuine defenses of him after he spread bigoted misinformation. And they didn't do that just like on a whim. This wasn't commentary going rogue; f***, one of the guys in the booth making those same defenses said just as vile a bout of drivel on this topic on his podcast. It's clear where WWE stands on it. Remember that. Next time they go for some PR points, remember how egregious this was, and how they responded by polishing his dick on commentary instead. They don't deserve the benefit of our doubt, and no amount of gladhanding video packages in June or tweets pretending to give a shit will change that. WWE ownership is the same as UFC's ownership, where so many of the top fighters just get to say horrific bigot shit on a daily basis and nothing matters. WWE is no different. bringing up Punk also makes me wonder if they told him to say nothing. for as much as the two of you and myself included have said our own pieces about not liking the guy since stuff happened, he was adamant with a gusto about trans rights and anyone who went against that, he went hard in the paint for it. from what I can tell now… nothing. doesn’t lessen how nice it was to have that support especially when that summer felt like one wrong move and you’re gonna get shot or something but other than Isla, who else said anything in the company? not a reflection of the employees but maybe a mandate from up top saying you’re not going to talk about this or this is our views and that’s that. did you happen to listen to the commentary during that match? like what does WWE expect us to do after the last week? Like, does WWE want to appear nominally outwardly neutral with this stuff to try and not alienate anyone on either side? But here’s the thing, this isn’t f***in’ small potatoes like whether someone likes pineapple on a pizza or not. People die over this shit every day, be it by the hands of others or by their own. I don’t think anyone can BE neutral about this when one side is based upon fear and ignorance and intolerance, and the other side is basically like “Just let us f***in’ live and leave us alone, for f***s sake”. People will notice your actions and ESPECIALLY your inactions.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 4, 2024 1:00:07 GMT -5
bringing up Punk also makes me wonder if they told him to say nothing. for as much as the two of you and myself included have said our own pieces about not liking the guy since stuff happened, he was adamant with a gusto about trans rights and anyone who went against that, he went hard in the paint for it. from what I can tell now… nothing. doesn’t lessen how nice it was to have that support especially when that summer felt like one wrong move and you’re gonna get shot or something but other than Isla, who else said anything in the company? not a reflection of the employees but maybe a mandate from up top saying you’re not going to talk about this or this is our views and that’s that. did you happen to listen to the commentary during that match? like what does WWE expect us to do after the last week? Like, does WWE want to appear nominally outwardly neutral with this stuff to try and not alienate anyone on either side? But here’s the thing, this isn’t f***in’ small potatoes like whether someone likes pineapple on a pizza or not. People die over this shit every day, be it by the hands of others or by their own. I don’t think anyone can BE neutral about this when one side is based upon fear and ignorance and intolerance, and the other side is basically like “Just let us f***in’ live and leave us alone, for f***s sake”. That’s what I’m trying to say without coming off like THAT girl/guy who feels they have to proclaim they’re not participating in something. I want to make absolutely clear I don’t mean anyone here, the best comparison I can think of is sports forums or subreddits. Sports team does something really f***ing dumb like an awful trade and people are like “see you next game”. I like WWE matches, I like the storylines and I love hanging out with most everyone here. It’s really really fun and a good distraction from irl where yeah, it really is life or death. Having him say the stuff he did, hearing the commentary go about things the way they had happen and it’s just supposed to be forgotten… huh? Like what the hell did we do to these people besides watch their shows?
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Post by Pure Fusion Jesse Walsh on Aug 4, 2024 1:19:12 GMT -5
Just remembered this company sells Pride merch.
You'll never see me look to wrestling companies (or really any company) for allyship, but the clown makeup and big red nose this particular one puts on constantly never ceases to astound me.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Aug 4, 2024 1:24:25 GMT -5
Just remembered this company sells Pride merch. You'll never see me look to wrestling companies (or really any company) for allyship, but the clown makeup and big red nose this particular one puts on constantly never ceases to astound me. thing is not even attempting to do the most basic of PR "oh we apologize if you feel that way" stuff with companies usually hides actual hatred. otherwise they lose nothing and can use that card to deflect.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 4, 2024 1:29:10 GMT -5
Back last summer when Punk came back on a lot of peoples' shit list, I remember standing up for him and his pro-trans messaging when he came back as being sincere, because that was a summer where a bunch of stochastic terrorism saw retail employees being harassed so hard that stores took down their Pride Month displays and a lot of them this year had none entirely to avoid incurring that wrath again. The fairweather support from company who want to rainbow-ify their logo and then bail the moment anything else can be done is tiring and I'm done with it. WWE proved itself here by baking defenses of Logan Paul's transphobia into their literal wrestling show product. Not just sticking by their guy outside of it but going for genuine defenses of him after he spread bigoted misinformation. And they didn't do that just like on a whim. This wasn't commentary going rogue; f***, one of the guys in the booth making those same defenses said just as vile a bout of drivel on this topic on his podcast. It's clear where WWE stands on it. Remember that. Next time they go for some PR points, remember how egregious this was, and how they responded by polishing his dick on commentary instead. They don't deserve the benefit of our doubt, and no amount of gladhanding video packages in June or tweets pretending to give a shit will change that. WWE ownership is the same as UFC's ownership, where so many of the top fighters just get to say horrific bigot shit on a daily basis and nothing matters. WWE is no different. bringing up Punk also makes me wonder if they told him to say nothing. for as much as the two of you and myself included have said our own pieces about not liking the guy since stuff happened, he was adamant with a gusto about trans rights and anyone who went against that, he went hard in the paint for it. from what I can tell now… nothing. doesn’t lessen how nice it was to have that support especially when that summer felt like one wrong move and you’re gonna get shot or something but other than Isla, who else said anything in the company? not a reflection of the employees but maybe a mandate from up top saying you’re not going to talk about this or this is our views and that’s that. did you happen to listen to the commentary during that match? like what does WWE expect us to do after the last week? Almost certainly, Punk normally would have used his Instagram stories to post something pro trans. Or worn a pro trans t-shirt*. Even Sami just vagely said there's a lot of stupid people online. All those that took the sports washing money accepted that they'd often have to stay silent on certain lgbt+ issues long ago. (Although tbf Punk hasn't taken that final step of wrestling there) *I assume I'd have heard if he did either
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Post by Pure Fusion Jesse Walsh on Aug 4, 2024 1:39:04 GMT -5
Me with a WWE Pride thong hanging out of my pants like Lita in the early '00s: I am once again betrayed and disappointed by this corporation I consider a friend.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Aug 4, 2024 3:21:28 GMT -5
Me with a WWE Pride thong hanging out of my pants like Lita in the early '00s: I am once again betrayed and disappointed by this corporation I consider a friend. Now you gotta do a Jesse-canrana for us!
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Aug 4, 2024 9:50:45 GMT -5
bringing up Punk also makes me wonder if they told him to say nothing. for as much as the two of you and myself included have said our own pieces about not liking the guy since stuff happened, he was adamant with a gusto about trans rights and anyone who went against that, he went hard in the paint for it. from what I can tell now… nothing. doesn’t lessen how nice it was to have that support especially when that summer felt like one wrong move and you’re gonna get shot or something but other than Isla, who else said anything in the company? not a reflection of the employees but maybe a mandate from up top saying you’re not going to talk about this or this is our views and that’s that. did you happen to listen to the commentary during that match? like what does WWE expect us to do after the last week? Like, does WWE want to appear nominally outwardly neutral with this stuff to try and not alienate anyone on either side? But here’s the thing, this isn’t f***in’ small potatoes like whether someone likes pineapple on a pizza or not. People die over this shit every day, be it by the hands of others or by their own. I don’t think anyone can BE neutral about this when one side is based upon fear and ignorance and intolerance, and the other side is basically like “Just let us f***in’ live and leave us alone, for f***s sake”. People will notice your actions and ESPECIALLY your inactions. I think what upsets me the most about this situation in particular is, even if you want to play devil’s advocate and couch the issue of trans women in sports as a “divisive political issue” where it’s fair for a large publicly traded corporation to stay neutral, that’s not even what happened here. This was Logan Paul being so blatantly transphobic that he spread outright dangerous misinformation on the internet and then, apparently, threw a tantrum and made an incredibly disingenuous apology when it became clear he was wrong. There’s absolutely no scenario where Logan deserved any leeway here. He was 100%, categorically, in the wrong. And WWE responded by verbally fellating him on commentary then clearly censoring questions at the scrum and only allowing their preferred, carefully vetted, members of the media to ask questions. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I just have to wonder where a lot of the people who nearly strangled themselves clutching their pearls after Tony Khan gave a “no comment” style answer regarding Chris Jericho and Kylie Rae are right now. At least he was asked the question.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 4, 2024 9:55:37 GMT -5
Like, does WWE want to appear nominally outwardly neutral with this stuff to try and not alienate anyone on either side? But here’s the thing, this isn’t f***in’ small potatoes like whether someone likes pineapple on a pizza or not. People die over this shit every day, be it by the hands of others or by their own. I don’t think anyone can BE neutral about this when one side is based upon fear and ignorance and intolerance, and the other side is basically like “Just let us f***in’ live and leave us alone, for f***s sake”. People will notice your actions and ESPECIALLY your inactions. I think what upsets me the most about this situation in particular is, even if you want to play devil’s advocate and couch the issue of trans women in sports as a “divisive political issue” where it’s fair for a large publicly traded corporation to stay neutral, that’s not even what happened here. This was Logan Paul being so blatantly transphobic that he spread outright dangerous misinformation on the internet and then, apparently, threw a tantrum and made an incredibly disingenuous apology when it became clear he was wrong. There’s absolutely no scenario where Logan deserved any leeway here. He was 100%, categorically, in the wrong. And WWE responded by verbally fellating him on commentary then clearly censoring questions at the scrum and only allowing their preferred, carefully vetted, members of the media to ask questions. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I just have to wonder where a lot of the people who nearly strangled themselves clutching their pearls after Tony Khan gave a “no comment” style answer regarding Chris Jericho and Kylie Rae are right now. At least he was asked the question. I imagine the difference is one scenario (Kylie) is about potential interactions between members of the roster (a workplace issue) while the other is about a talent’s unrelated social media posts. Same way I wouldn’t expect the company to have gotten involved if Lesnar was employed when he made his “I don’t like gays” comment or when Warrior made his crazy comments. Or when Jericho platforms people on his podcast, etc. Seems to be a more hands-off approach from companies when it comes to hate speech/or just controversial topics handled off the clock. Not saying that’s right but that seems to be the distinction drawn .
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Aug 4, 2024 10:02:35 GMT -5
I think what upsets me the most about this situation in particular is, even if you want to play devil’s advocate and couch the issue of trans women in sports as a “divisive political issue” where it’s fair for a large publicly traded corporation to stay neutral, that’s not even what happened here. This was Logan Paul being so blatantly transphobic that he spread outright dangerous misinformation on the internet and then, apparently, threw a tantrum and made an incredibly disingenuous apology when it became clear he was wrong. There’s absolutely no scenario where Logan deserved any leeway here. He was 100%, categorically, in the wrong. And WWE responded by verbally fellating him on commentary then clearly censoring questions at the scrum and only allowing their preferred, carefully vetted, members of the media to ask questions. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I just have to wonder where a lot of the people who nearly strangled themselves clutching their pearls after Tony Khan gave a “no comment” style answer regarding Chris Jericho and Kylie Rae are right now. At least he was asked the question. I imagine the difference is one scenario (Kylie) is about potential interactions between members of the roster (a workplace issue) while the other is about a talent’s unrelated social media posts. Nowithstanding the fact that Kylie had been off the roster for 4 years at that point and was only even on the roster for about a month, the issue was that WWE very obviously wouldn’t even allow the question to be asked so Hunter could even give the “we can’t comment on an employee’s social media usage publicly, but have addressed the matter privately with Logan” answer. AEW’s scrums are pretty obviously more open and authentic.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 4, 2024 10:04:49 GMT -5
I think what upsets me the most about this situation in particular is, even if you want to play devil’s advocate and couch the issue of trans women in sports as a “divisive political issue” where it’s fair for a large publicly traded corporation to stay neutral, that’s not even what happened here. This was Logan Paul being so blatantly transphobic that he spread outright dangerous misinformation on the internet and then, apparently, threw a tantrum and made an incredibly disingenuous apology when it became clear he was wrong. There’s absolutely no scenario where Logan deserved any leeway here. He was 100%, categorically, in the wrong. And WWE responded by verbally fellating him on commentary then clearly censoring questions at the scrum and only allowing their preferred, carefully vetted, members of the media to ask questions. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I just have to wonder where a lot of the people who nearly strangled themselves clutching their pearls after Tony Khan gave a “no comment” style answer regarding Chris Jericho and Kylie Rae are right now. At least he was asked the question. I imagine the difference is one scenario (Kylie) is about potential interactions between members of the roster (a workplace issue) while the other is about a talent’s unrelated social media posts. But if we're comparing the two, one was about something nobody had any true accusations of. Kylie didn't say anything, we don't know if the story was even about her nor if she had an NDA given. Tony Khan gave the "no comment" answer because, like, there was nothing to comment about, especially if anything that had happened was done privately. It'd be a different thing if Kylie said her piece about it and Tony said "No comment" because that basically says "Something happened and either you're going to sue her over it or you're ignoring it". The Logan Paul tweets are only "unrelated" if there isn't a code of conduct about how contracted workers are supposed to act in public and on social media which there clearly was because WWE likely asked him to take it down. So obviously, it was against how someone hired by WWE should be tweeting and thus, it's something to ask about. Especially working for a company that did stuff for Pride month and has LGBT+ people working there. At the very least, it was an opportunity to say some nonsense like "We respect all our fans and we don't want them to feel they can't watch our programming" or whatever.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 4, 2024 10:21:02 GMT -5
I imagine the difference is one scenario (Kylie) is about potential interactions between members of the roster (a workplace issue) while the other is about a talent’s unrelated social media posts. Nowithstanding the fact that Kylie had been off the roster for 4 years at that point and was only even on the roster for about a month, the issue was that WWE very obviously wouldn’t even allow the question to be asked so Hunter could even give the “we can’t comment on an employee’s social media usage publicly, but have addressed the matter privately with Logan” answer. AEW’s scrums are pretty obviously more open and authentic. Oh sure WWE’s scrums are probably more controlled. I still don’t even understand the point of a scrum- the whole thing should just be kayfabe. There’s no real benefit to having real questions be asked and we’ve seen the negative of it in both companies’ scrums.
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