Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 12,521
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Post by Kalmia on May 19, 2023 18:22:48 GMT -5
I kinda miss seeing the sky at Daily's Place. Such a unique and beautiful venue.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 19, 2023 18:25:19 GMT -5
All this chat about “No Punk, no Chicago”… Doesn’t really speak highly of any belief in the rest of their roster, which includes big stars like The Elite, Moxley, Danielson, MJF, Jericho and Cole among others, to draw a house?
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 19, 2023 18:28:17 GMT -5
All this chat about “No Punk, no Chicago”… Doesn’t really speak highly of any belief in the rest of their roster, which includes big stars like The Elite, Moxley, Danielson, MJF, Jericho and Cole among others, to draw a house? My main issue with running Chicago without Punk is they also booked a Dynamite in Chicago the next week. It's one thing to draw in Chicago which I think they've proven they can. But asking them to buy another ticket without a big hook outside the debut of Collision which is an unproven product is tough no matter the roster.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Post by spagett on May 19, 2023 18:28:34 GMT -5
Punk is absolutely not worth any of this mess and it's embarrassing that we've gotten here Sadly yep. I love AEW, I'll be going to wembley in a few months for All In, and I'm very grateful for it. If AEW didn't happen I think I'd have stopped watching wrestling altogether with the WWE product just increasingly not for me and New Japan badly hurt because of the pandemic. So I tend to give them and Tony Khan the benefit of the doubt whenever there's any scandal or criticism. But there's just no way to spin this, CM Punk isn't worth all this drama and Tony Khan needs to stop caving into his demands and get rid. Yes if he returns they'll get a big house in Chicago and good ratings for the debut. Maybe even good ratings for the first few weeks. But they'll eventually drop off plus Punk will continue to poison the dressing room and create trouble and issues. We all know that even if they smooth things over for Collison's debut, Punk is going to have a meltdown eventually. It's inevitable. Just release him, take the short term hit for long term gains.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 19, 2023 18:35:29 GMT -5
All this chat about “No Punk, no Chicago”… Doesn’t really speak highly of any belief in the rest of their roster, which includes big stars like The Elite, Moxley, Danielson, MJF, Jericho and Cole among others, to draw a house? I don't think it's about draw as much it is AEW wanting to deliver on expectations. Punk wasn't hyped as appearing on the Rampage for 'The First Dance,' but there was enough rumor around it that it was pretty certain he would show up and helped sell it out. The rumor/insinuation has been out there heavy for weeks that Punk would be at the United Center for "the second coming." If Punk's not there, unless you have something that's going be such an amazing surprise it will make the crowd forget about Punk, they're going to have a major "What if" at best or total deflation/disappointment at worst coming out of it.
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Post by xCompackx on May 19, 2023 18:40:37 GMT -5
Punk is absolutely not worth any of this mess and it's embarrassing that we've gotten here Sadly yep. I love AEW, I'll be going to wembley in a few months for All In, and I'm very grateful for it. If AEW didn't happen I think I'd have stopped watching wrestling altogether with the WWE product just increasingly not for me and New Japan badly hurt because of the pandemic. So I tend to give them and Tony Khan the benefit of the doubt whenever there's any scandal or criticism. But there's just no way to spin this, CM Punk isn't worth all this drama and Tony Khan needs to stop caving into his demands and get rid. Yes if he returns they'll get a big house in Chicago and good ratings for the debut. Maybe even good ratings for the first few weeks. But they'll eventually drop off plus Punk will continue to poison the dressing room and create trouble and issues. We all know that even if they smooth things over for Collison's debut, Punk is going to have a meltdown eventually. It's inevitable. Just release him, take the short term hit for long term gains. It sucks too; say Punk does come back for Collision and they build the show around him. Now you're again building storylines around a dude who could nuke everything on a whim and ruining now two shows while doing it.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,667
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Post by spagett on May 19, 2023 18:45:57 GMT -5
Sadly yep. I love AEW, I'll be going to wembley in a few months for All In, and I'm very grateful for it. If AEW didn't happen I think I'd have stopped watching wrestling altogether with the WWE product just increasingly not for me and New Japan badly hurt because of the pandemic. So I tend to give them and Tony Khan the benefit of the doubt whenever there's any scandal or criticism. But there's just no way to spin this, CM Punk isn't worth all this drama and Tony Khan needs to stop caving into his demands and get rid. Yes if he returns they'll get a big house in Chicago and good ratings for the debut. Maybe even good ratings for the first few weeks. But they'll eventually drop off plus Punk will continue to poison the dressing room and create trouble and issues. We all know that even if they smooth things over for Collison's debut, Punk is going to have a meltdown eventually. It's inevitable. Just release him, take the short term hit for long term gains. It sucks too; say Punk does come back for Collision and they build the show around him. Now you're again building storylines around a dude who could nuke everything on a whim and ruining now two shows while doing it. Yep, you can't really plan anything with total confidence with him because like you said, he could just walk out at any moment for any perceived slight no matter how small. Also let's be honest. I think his last two big singles matches he's suffered a bad injury in both, I know people say he hurt his leg doing a crowd dive but I dunno, he looked pretty messed up botching those buckshot lariats against hangman. Looked like his leg buckled there. It's a lot to risk on a guy who has shown he has the thinnest skin imaginable, who is capable of melting down and walking out at any moment and could also just physically not be able to do this anymore. I just cannot see any way keeping Punk works out for AEW, it will end in tears.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,828
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Post by markymark on May 19, 2023 19:03:03 GMT -5
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Post by ariestheram on May 19, 2023 19:18:26 GMT -5
As someone who had never had to reserve an arena, how much money would AEW lose if the United Center fell through at this point?
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 19, 2023 19:23:12 GMT -5
Seriously if I was someone excited as f*** to go to a show and it got moved somewhere else because one guy didn't show up I'd be mad as hell regardless of whether or not dude is the big hometown guy lmao It'd be really playing with fire in the city they run most, and even consistently set their biggest PPV of the year at. They're kinda gonna have to eat shit on this one potentially just to avoid hurting their draw power in their key market. If they do Book Chicago. They need to make it loudly and abundantly clear CM Punk is not appearing. Sure there are going to be people that take that as "that means he's definitely coming back!" but they can't be helped regardless. (this is I guess kinda how the open secret bit them on his return in the first place) But have Tony and everyone else in non kayfabe interviews point out that Phil isn't coming.
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Post by xCompackx on May 19, 2023 19:24:47 GMT -5
I say this as someone who planned on going to Collision in Chicago, but I'd run Daily's Place. You're banking a lot on Punk playing ball and it's plenty likely they announce United Center on Wednesday and Punk goes on a tangent on Thursday.
At the very, VERY least, debut the show first and then take the risk on the toxic wrestler.
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Post by raymondo316 on May 19, 2023 19:27:16 GMT -5
The problem is even if Punk agrees to come back and Tony announces Collision's debut will be in Chicago, what's stopping Punk from having another meltdown in a few weeks when he doesn't get his own way and decides "Nah I'm not doing this if you don't give me something else I want" He could literally pull out days before Chicago, heck he literally just made Tony look bad in front of WarnerMedia by pulling out of an important event this week......he just isn't reliable Its madness that Tony is begging this clown to come back and putting his own reputation and his companies on the line for a 44 year old man who has a meltdown over the smallest thing. But hey, Tony has got it into his head that Punk is still a massive draw, yet the ratings show he doesn't make much difference.
Atleast when Bischoff was letting Hogan do whatever he wanted, he was actually still a big ratings draw.....same can't be said for Punk in 2023.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on May 19, 2023 20:01:40 GMT -5
It'd be really playing with fire in the city they run most, and even consistently set their biggest PPV of the year at. They're kinda gonna have to eat shit on this one potentially just to avoid hurting their draw power in their key market. If they do Book Chicago. They need to make it loudly and abundantly clear CM Punk is not appearing. Sure there are going to be people that take that as "that means he's definitely coming back!" but they can't be helped regardless. (this is I guess kinda how the open secret bit them on his return in the first place) But have Tony and everyone else in non kayfabe interviews point out that Phil isn't coming. Hell, get someone like MJF to go out there and cut a promo. Just absolutely hammer it home that Punk isn't there, he's not gonna be there, and it's because he's being difficult. "Oh I'm sorry, were you all expecting someone else? Yeah, sorry, your boy Phil isn't gonna be here. Y'see, Punker decided that his ego was more important than his job, so he decided to be a big ol' diva and hold the show hostage. Then, when he didn't get what he wanted, he took his ball, went home, and let all of you down, just like he did at All Out, just like he did at Double or Nothing, and just like he did back in 2014."
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Post by Jindrak Mark on May 19, 2023 20:05:21 GMT -5
As someone who had never had to reserve an arena, how much money would AEW lose if the United Center fell through at this point? I doubt losing out on the deposit for booking then cancelling the arena will break the bank for billionaire Tony Khan but the embarrassment of spending months planning this new show around Punk's return (and literally going to call it the second coming!) and for it to be this late in the game and now not even knowing if he's going to grace the show with his presence is ridiculous. Like if it's already booked just run the Chicago show and if Punk isn't going to be there make it VERY clear beforehand. You can't let one guy have you by the balls to the point that you're booking entire different cities as back-up plans because you're scared he might not show up.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 19, 2023 20:17:53 GMT -5
Hell, if you're that concerned about fans being pissed see what you can do to get Goldberg to pop up and say hi or something. There are makegoods available that aren't moving the whole show.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Fry's dog Seymour
Sponsored by Arizona Green Tea/Peanuts But Only At Baseball Stadiums/Biscuits Cat Adoption Agency
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on May 19, 2023 20:23:34 GMT -5
At this point Tony has to know how bad all of this is making him look. Dude is extremely online. I feel bad for him but at the same time I really don't, all he has to do is tell Punk either you're in or out. If he's in, play it by ear and continue with your unnecessary risk. If he's out, sue the pants off him.
I knew dude was stubborn with some of the booking choices being on hold for months/year but for f***s sakes bro. You're better than this.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on May 19, 2023 20:47:09 GMT -5
At this point Tony has to know how bad all of this is making him look. Dude is extremely online. I feel bad for him but at the same time I really don't , all he has to do is tell Punk either you're in or out. If he's in, play it by ear and continue with your unnecessary risk. If he's out, sue the pants off him. I knew dude was stubborn with some of the booking choices being on hold for months/year but for f***s sakes bro. You're better than this.
But isnt that the reason why they postponed the location announcement for next week?(Meltzer also implied today that Punk might be on his way out)
I feel he wanted Punk back to improve the ratings and live attendance(he probably didnt like that WWE ratings and attendance have gone up YoY), if the business side were good without Punk then he wouldve probably gotten rid of him already imo
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 19, 2023 20:50:52 GMT -5
AND ANOTHER THING…
How are Chicago-based AEW fans meant to feel about this? You hear about how they’re gonna run the Madhouse for the first time for this brand new show, you might or might not be a fan of Punk himself but you like the product… And then you read about how they might be about to cancel the plans to run there and go home to Jacksonville because of the whole Punk situation? People could’ve already booked travel plans for this.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on May 19, 2023 20:59:34 GMT -5
Chicago got a bajillion shows in 2019, early 2020, 2021-22, they'll be fine if one that hasn't even officially been announced yet gets moved (I've been to two AEW Chicago shows so obviously I'm like the president of getting to decide how Chicagoans should feel about shows).
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,967
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Post by Mozenrath on May 19, 2023 21:03:54 GMT -5
If I had a dime for every time a wrestling promoter rehired a problematic figure in secret because they knew it’d be a bad look, I’d have two dimes. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s still weird that it happened twice. You'd have 3. You're forgetting Brian Kendrick is getting WWE agent work again Usually, WWE just hires them publicly and doesn't give a shit. This counts as restraint by their standards.
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