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Post by ChitownKnight on May 20, 2023 18:40:04 GMT -5
Page 311: Wooah.. Amber is the color of your energy
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Kalmia
King Koopa
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Post by Kalmia on May 20, 2023 18:46:17 GMT -5
If Punk had a Facebook he'd be posting motivational quotes next to pictures of minions.
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A Little Doo Doo
Salacious Crumb
An unconventional man with unconventional methods.
Posts: 70,532
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on May 20, 2023 18:47:31 GMT -5
If Punk had a Facebook he'd be posting motivational quotes next to pictures of minions. And random song lyrics.
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Jasper Troy Bolton
Ozymandius
MAMMA MIA! CRUISERLICIOUS!
GIIIGIIIGIIIGIIIGIGI
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Member is Online
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Post by Jasper Troy Bolton on May 20, 2023 18:53:30 GMT -5
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,512
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 20, 2023 19:01:02 GMT -5
So, if the pro-Punk reports are correct, the only reason Punk was pulled from the Collision announcement was to keep his return a secret, and WBD just jumped the gun, right? And that's the whole reason any of this started, was because of the reports of why he was removed last minute, yeah? Punk vagueposting about his return kinda throws all that work out the window, doesn't it? And all because Alvarez and Meltzer reported on info that was probably given to them by a bad source, and Punk couldn't help himself from responding. That’s all just stupid. There’s no benefit to keeping his return a secret. The only reason to do that is if you had a heel authority figure keeping him away, but you’d need to still promote that somehow. That’s not happening. That tells me that they’re still ironing out details. Also, Punk is roughly my age. I may respond to people who annoy me online, but I’ll refuse to continue to engage if they continue. It’s just not worth it to me. I have better things to do, even if that better thing is a video game. At this point it’s embarrassing the way he posts.
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Post by ChitownKnight on May 20, 2023 19:05:36 GMT -5
Scrum thread 1 ended at 687 pages, this thread is at 311 now. So we are at 998 combined pages for the whole topic. 2 more till we get to 1000!!!
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 12,516
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Post by Kalmia on May 20, 2023 19:16:29 GMT -5
So, if the pro-Punk reports are correct, the only reason Punk was pulled from the Collision announcement was to keep his return a secret, and WBD just jumped the gun, right? And that's the whole reason any of this started, was because of the reports of why he was removed last minute, yeah? Punk vagueposting about his return kinda throws all that work out the window, doesn't it? And all because Alvarez and Meltzer reported on info that was probably given to them by a bad source, and Punk couldn't help himself from responding. Yeah, I don't believe that either. I'm pretty sure that AEW would have had plenty of internal discussions (including with Punk and WBD) about whether to announce Punk ahead of time or keep him a secret. Press releases and graphics don't just get produced on a whim. They wouldn't have just changed their minds at the 11th hour for no reason.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,485
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Post by Chiral on May 20, 2023 19:22:41 GMT -5
So, if the pro-Punk reports are correct, the only reason Punk was pulled from the Collision announcement was to keep his return a secret, and WBD just jumped the gun, right? And that's the whole reason any of this started, was because of the reports of why he was removed last minute, yeah? Punk vagueposting about his return kinda throws all that work out the window, doesn't it? And all because Alvarez and Meltzer reported on info that was probably given to them by a bad source, and Punk couldn't help himself from responding. Pro Punk report is like: 1. Punk was pulled from the press release at the last minute because WBD jumped the gun, it would ruin the surprise of his return being announced later that night at Dynamite 2. Punk was not announced at that Dynamite and the hasty change to "we'll reveal an arena next week" was because ______ 3. Nothing is wrong and CM Punk and Tony are still besties 4 life and nothing is wrong and Punk is willing to work really hard and do a good job 4. f*** Alvarez
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 20, 2023 19:23:14 GMT -5
So, if the pro-Punk reports are correct, the only reason Punk was pulled from the Collision announcement was to keep his return a secret, and WBD just jumped the gun, right? And that's the whole reason any of this started, was because of the reports of why he was removed last minute, yeah? Punk vagueposting about his return kinda throws all that work out the window, doesn't it? And all because Alvarez and Meltzer reported on info that was probably given to them by a bad source, and Punk couldn't help himself from responding. If the Ace Steel stuff is 1000% untrue and never happened and it's all lies, it'd be just so easy to not say anything and to keep himself behaved, and he can't do it. But he's instead picking these fights and he's singling out specific journalists even though those aren't even the ones saying the most stuff, and all of this is wrapped in the confines of how he'd in the first place gotten in to all this trouble over a crusade over people talking to journalists and railing against stuff circulating. Stuff that again didn't originate with them, even. It reads a certain way; whenever someone in wrestling is committed to insulting and tearing down reporters, it's often for something that's truthful and which they wish would go away. Punk is too invested into positioning Meltzer and Alvarez as antagonists smearing him for there to be no smoke to this fire. Wrestlers almost never speak out against untrue stories. When an indie wrestler denies rumours they've been signed to WWE, they show up in a WWE.com announcement of the new performance center class two weeks later. This much air isn't spilled over lies in wrestling.
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Post by xCompackx on May 20, 2023 20:17:17 GMT -5
Even if they wanted to keep Punk's return a secret, you can best believe they would've announced the debut show location if nothing was wrong.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,456
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Post by Fade on May 20, 2023 21:30:21 GMT -5
Way too much smoke. Way too much. Doesn’t even smell like worked-shoot bs. When Meltzer spoke about it he was vague and ominous that “something” had happened. Also saying there’s stuff he CANT say …so. Yeah. And considering the cast of characters.. Glad Punk can agree that this should all get wrapped up with quickly, just kind of wish he wasn't once again vaguing to his workplace on Instagram. Well he posted these before that one. He’s going through it. He knows his rep is shot. He’ll have his fans but his characterization in the speak-o-sphere is different and he knows it. Yeah this run’s gonna be great
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,485
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Post by Chiral on May 20, 2023 22:17:02 GMT -5
The Punk saga no matter which side you fall on:
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,129
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Post by pinja on May 20, 2023 23:49:03 GMT -5
Punk working on his girlblogger moodboards.
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Post by rajaah on May 21, 2023 1:18:08 GMT -5
All of these "Punk moves the needle more than the Elite" (therefore his actions are totes okay) people are missing something particularly important: He doesn't really move the needle either. It's possible all of the Elite's fanbase are the hardcore people already watching, while Punk has the ability to bring in another +200k crossover fans, but that...isn't a massive game-changer. Not sure anyone is a real massive game-changer, or worth this kind of headache. Maybe Roman or Brock if they switched sides? Maaaaaybe Sasha but probably not?
I think the real game-changer will be when AEW has a homegrown guy who is so charismatic and fresh that he legitimately brings in a casual mainstream audience who have to see what he does next. An Austin, Rock, or Shawn level performer.
I think Kenny, MJF, and Hangman all have the potential to be something like that, but all of them are missing something in their booking or their storylines. Bryan too but he's winding down.
Chances are The Guy is gonna be someone who comes out of left field entirely and catches fire with the right storyline or the right catchphrase. A Ricky Starks, Max Caster, or a Hook. Or someone nobody expects now. Nobody thought The Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia would be any kind of big deal in 1996.
I do think The Guy is very likely someone they already have.
Either way, true major crossover appeal that brings in casual fans is something they're still trying to find. It isn't Punk. His contributions, while certainly a chunk of fans, are negligible in the grand scheme of things. As others have pointed out, Punk's fanbase isn't going to stick around or lead to major growth either; they leave when he does.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,844
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 21, 2023 1:33:54 GMT -5
All of these "Punk moves the needle more than the Elite" (therefore his actions are totes okay) people are missing something particularly important: He doesn't really move the needle either. It's possible all of the Elite's fanbase are the hardcore people already watching, while Punk has the ability to bring in another +200k crossover fans, but that...isn't a massive game-changer. Not sure anyone is a real massive game-changer, or worth this kind of headache. Maybe Roman or Brock if they switched sides? Maaaaaybe Sasha but probably not? I think the real game-changer will be when AEW has a homegrown guy who is so charismatic and fresh that he legitimately brings in a casual mainstream audience who have to see what he does next. An Austin, Rock, or Shawn level performer. I think Kenny, MJF, and Hangman all have the potential to be something like that, but all of them are missing something in their booking or their storylines. Bryan too but he's winding down. Chances are The Guy is gonna be someone who comes out of left field entirely and catches fire with the right storyline or the right catchphrase. A Ricky Starks, Max Caster, or a Hook. Or someone nobody expects now. Nobody thought The Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia would be any kind of big deal in 1996. I do think The Guy is very likely someone they already have. Either way, true major crossover appeal that brings in casual fans is something they're still trying to find. It isn't Punk. His contributions, while certainly a chunk of fans, are negligible in the grand scheme of things. As others have pointed out, Punk's fanbase isn't going to stick around or lead to major growth either; they leave when he does. Currently, "The Guy" is Jon Moxley. The thing is that he's willingly playing Second Fiddle to Danielson right now, and it seems designed to put Kenny over, when Kenny has already been on top. I'd love to think that the ultimate endgame of this is that somehow Konosuke Takeshita ends up "The Guy", but I don't think that happens if he turns and slots behind Mox, Danielson, and Claudio.
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Post by Andew9001 on May 21, 2023 2:27:20 GMT -5
All of these "Punk moves the needle more than the Elite" (therefore his actions are totes okay) people are missing something particularly important: He doesn't really move the needle either. It's possible all of the Elite's fanbase are the hardcore people already watching, while Punk has the ability to bring in another +200k crossover fans, but that...isn't a massive game-changer. Not sure anyone is a real massive game-changer, or worth this kind of headache. Maybe Roman or Brock if they switched sides? Maaaaaybe Sasha but probably not? I think the real game-changer will be when AEW has a homegrown guy who is so charismatic and fresh that he legitimately brings in a casual mainstream audience who have to see what he does next. An Austin, Rock, or Shawn level performer. I think Kenny, MJF, and Hangman all have the potential to be something like that, but all of them are missing something in their booking or their storylines. Bryan too but he's winding down. Chances are The Guy is gonna be someone who comes out of left field entirely and catches fire with the right storyline or the right catchphrase. A Ricky Starks, Max Caster, or a Hook. Or someone nobody expects now. Nobody thought The Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia would be any kind of big deal in 1996. I do think The Guy is very likely someone they already have. Either way, true major crossover appeal that brings in casual fans is something they're still trying to find. It isn't Punk. His contributions, while certainly a chunk of fans, are negligible in the grand scheme of things. As others have pointed out, Punk's fanbase isn't going to stick around or lead to major growth either; they leave when he does. I think my big issue is that it seems like their problem isn't as much the wrestlers as it is creative and management not capitilising on stars when they get hot. Wardlow - Got super hot during his feud with MJF, beat him, won the TNT title and now he's ice cold. Adam Page - won the World title after years of build. Should have been the proof of concept that AEW could make stars. Had a middling run as champ, dropped to the mid card and now he's nowhere near as hot as he used to be. MJF - hot after his return, could have been a huge tweener or anti hero but instead he's the same MJF he's been for years. And you can say that about a lot of other guys too who probably could have been bigger. You look at what happened after All Out 2021 after Cole and Danielson debuted and Punk had his first match back. They got 1.2 million views the next Dynamite. Their highest rating since their debut. Since then they've fallen back to anywhere between 750k to just under a million views depending on the week. I don't think it's enough to have the next big star. You need to capitalise on stars when they get hot and they just haven't been doing it. For what it's worth Punk was able to bring in extra viewership. But bringing him back now isn't going to be the magic fix i'm sure Tony and AEW want him to be.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 21, 2023 2:32:59 GMT -5
All of these "Punk moves the needle more than the Elite" (therefore his actions are totes okay) people are missing something particularly important: He doesn't really move the needle either. It's possible all of the Elite's fanbase are the hardcore people already watching, while Punk has the ability to bring in another +200k crossover fans, but that...isn't a massive game-changer. Not sure anyone is a real massive game-changer, or worth this kind of headache. Maybe Roman or Brock if they switched sides? Maaaaaybe Sasha but probably not? I think the real game-changer will be when AEW has a homegrown guy who is so charismatic and fresh that he legitimately brings in a casual mainstream audience who have to see what he does next. An Austin, Rock, or Shawn level performer. I think Kenny, MJF, and Hangman all have the potential to be something like that, but all of them are missing something in their booking or their storylines. Bryan too but he's winding down. Chances are The Guy is gonna be someone who comes out of left field entirely and catches fire with the right storyline or the right catchphrase. A Ricky Starks, Max Caster, or a Hook. Or someone nobody expects now. Nobody thought The Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia would be any kind of big deal in 1996. I do think The Guy is very likely someone they already have. Either way, true major crossover appeal that brings in casual fans is something they're still trying to find. It isn't Punk. His contributions, while certainly a chunk of fans, are negligible in the grand scheme of things. As others have pointed out, Punk's fanbase isn't going to stick around or lead to major growth either; they leave when he does. I think my big issue is that it seems like their problem isn't as much the wrestlers as it is creative and management not capitilising on stars when they get hot. Wardlow - Got super hot during his feud with MJF, beat him, won the TNT title and now he's ice cold. Adam Page - won the World title after years of build. Should have been the proof of concept that AEW could make stars. Had a middling run as champ, dropped to the mid card and now he's nowhere near as hot as he used to be. MJF - hot after his return, could have been a huge tweener or anti hero but instead he's the same MJF he's been for years. And you can say that about a lot of other guys too who probably could have been bigger. You look at what happened after All Out 2021 after Cole and Danielson debuted and Punk had his first match back. They got 1.2 million views the next Dynamite. Their highest rating since their debut. Since then they've fallen back to anywhere between 750k to just under a million views depending on the week. I don't think it's enough to have the next big star. You need to capitalise on stars when they get hot and they just haven't been doing it. For what it's worth Punk was able to bring in extra viewership. But bringing him back now isn't going to be the magic fix i'm sure Tony and AEW want him to be. A big problem with the booking is they get too caught up in wanting to run a specific storyline a specific way... and so people get stuck in holding patterns forever which doesn't help them. Then when they do pull the trigger they still might get over but they don't really have an idea for what's next. I mean Adam Cole was spinning his wheels forever because they wanted to do the Elite vs. Undisputed Era but someone was always hurt... and it kinda messed with the dynamics of both of them until Fish got fired and they moved on... Wardlow spent like 6 more months than he probably should have with the will MJF push him too far shit... cause they teased the breakup forever before it happened they still managed to pull themselves out of it but as I said then they really had nothing for him after winning the thnt title... MJF I think just doesn't want to be a face or a tweener... but... he's REALLY one note as a heel. It's a note he's good at but it's not really something that you can run with as THE top heel focus in the company like he currently is either.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 21, 2023 2:41:22 GMT -5
MJF just strikes me as an extremely lazy performer. He has one note he hits over and over and over and over, with a seeming complete unwillingness to try doing anything else beyond as the occasional one-off, and given he also never wrestles it just results in him being boring as all hell and feeling like a complete waste of time whenever he's onscreen because he's not saying or doing anything you haven't already seen out of him 10,000 times.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Fry's dog Seymour
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Posts: 24,152
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on May 21, 2023 3:01:56 GMT -5
F R I E N D L Y R E M I N D E R get this man an otter pop holy shit
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Post by Sparvid on May 21, 2023 6:00:25 GMT -5
Does that mean they managed to persuade Punk to return? lol
Let's say for the sake of argument that they have Daily's Place in mind as a backup. Not that they have made any kind of decision on it, just "well, it's a potential option". How many people in AEW have to be aware of those plans? Feels like there would only be a very small number who would have enough insight to be able to say "No, that's definitely not in the books whatsoever"
Even if they wanted to keep Punk's return a secret, you can best believe they would've announced the debut show location if nothing was wrong. Exactly. Someone said a bit earlier in the thread something along the line of not caring if it was a work or not, but it makes absolutely no sense for them to keep quiet about Chicago as part of a work. Just announce the United Center, say nothing at all about Punk and let people speculate themselves.
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