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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 21, 2023 6:11:10 GMT -5
All of these "Punk moves the needle more than the Elite" (therefore his actions are totes okay) people are missing something particularly important: He doesn't really move the needle either. It's possible all of the Elite's fanbase are the hardcore people already watching, while Punk has the ability to bring in another +200k crossover fans, but that...isn't a massive game-changer. Not sure anyone is a real massive game-changer, or worth this kind of headache. Maybe Roman or Brock if they switched sides? Maaaaaybe Sasha but probably not? I think the real game-changer will be when AEW has a homegrown guy who is so charismatic and fresh that he legitimately brings in a casual mainstream audience who have to see what he does next. An Austin, Rock, or Shawn level performer. I think Kenny, MJF, and Hangman all have the potential to be something like that, but all of them are missing something in their booking or their storylines. Bryan too but he's winding down. Chances are The Guy is gonna be someone who comes out of left field entirely and catches fire with the right storyline or the right catchphrase. A Ricky Starks, Max Caster, or a Hook. Or someone nobody expects now. Nobody thought The Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia would be any kind of big deal in 1996. I do think The Guy is very likely someone they already have. Either way, true major crossover appeal that brings in casual fans is something they're still trying to find. It isn't Punk. His contributions, while certainly a chunk of fans, are negligible in the grand scheme of things. As others have pointed out, Punk's fanbase isn't going to stick around or lead to major growth either; they leave when he does. I think my big issue is that it seems like their problem isn't as much the wrestlers as it is creative and management not capitilising on stars when they get hot. Wardlow - Got super hot during his feud with MJF, beat him, won the TNT title and now he's ice cold. Adam Page - won the World title after years of build. Should have been the proof of concept that AEW could make stars. Had a middling run as champ, dropped to the mid card and now he's nowhere near as hot as he used to be. MJF - hot after his return, could have been a huge tweener or anti hero but instead he's the same MJF he's been for years.And you can say that about a lot of other guys too who probably could have been bigger. You look at what happened after All Out 2021 after Cole and Danielson debuted and Punk had his first match back. They got 1.2 million views the next Dynamite. Their highest rating since their debut. Since then they've fallen back to anywhere between 750k to just under a million views depending on the week. I don't think it's enough to have the next big star. You need to capitalise on stars when they get hot and they just haven't been doing it. For what it's worth Punk was able to bring in extra viewership. But bringing him back now isn't going to be the magic fix i'm sure Tony and AEW want him to be. Yeah, they needed to turn him face after Wardlow killed him. His promo about being bullied and how Punk let him down, should have been the first step to him becoming a face. As for Punk himself, if he is indeed gonna be back, it's just a ticking gripebomb.
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Post by Mid-Carder on May 21, 2023 6:56:53 GMT -5
Tony should send him his contract release on his wedding anniversary and make it a tradition
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Post by THE FVNKER on May 21, 2023 7:15:50 GMT -5
Tony should send him his contract release on his wedding anniversary and make it a tradition Can you imagine the years and years worth of content that would provide us.
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Post by KME on May 21, 2023 7:18:02 GMT -5
Hangman got a monster pop the other night, he's still incredibly over. Don't really think he has crossover appeal as is the case with almost everyone these days but a little harsh to say he's not as popular as he was, things are always going to take a bit of a downward turn after the chase is over and the babyface is champion. There just isn't a story you can tell that as compelling as a multi year odyssey for the belt, the best thing they could do would be have the other stuff he was involved in (the Elite fallout) brewing in the background and building back towards doing something there, and that's exactly what they've done.
MJF turning face is a tricky one because everything they had planned for him clearly got thrown out the window when Punk did what he did, and I think if you can't book an MJF face turn perfectly then you just don't do it, that's not one you want to botch. It felt like they could have done it after the Firm turned on him for sure but I don't know where you'd go with it from there, MJF feuding with Ethan Page, Big Bill, Lee Moriarty and The Gunns would be laughed at frankly and not sure who the big heel was that he could have worked with. Could have carried on doing the tweener thing but again people would have complained that they need to just pull the trigger and turn him face. I think it's better to save it, it'd still be a monster moment if and when he turns and if Punk comes back or Jay White becomes the new top heel I think it'd work better than it would have around Full Gear.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on May 21, 2023 7:59:36 GMT -5
Hangman got a monster pop the other night, he's still incredibly over. Don't really think he has crossover appeal as is the case with almost everyone these days but a little harsh to say he's not as popular as he was, things are always going to take a bit of a downward turn after the chase is over and the babyface is champion. There just isn't a story you can tell that as compelling as a multi year odyssey for the belt, the best thing they could do would be have the other stuff he was involved in (the Elite fallout) brewing in the background and building back towards doing something there, and that's exactly what they've done. MJF turning face is a tricky one because everything they had planned for him clearly got thrown out the window when Punk did what he did, and I think if you can't book an MJF face turn perfectly then you just don't do it, that's not one you want to botch. It felt like they could have done it after the Firm turned on him for sure but I don't know where you'd go with it from there, MJF feuding with Ethan Page, Big Bill, Lee Moriarty and The Gunns would be laughed at frankly and not sure who the big heel was that he could have worked with. Could have carried on doing the tweener thing but again people would have complained that they need to just pull the trigger and turn him face. I think it's better to save it, it'd still be a monster moment if and when he turns and if Punk comes back or Jay White becomes the new top heel I think it'd work better than it would have around Full Gear. I think that since AEW's inception the reactions/organic groundswell of crowd support that MJF received by the fans was as perfect as the company has had at making a star that could go to the next level. I don't know if people would be mad that MJF wasn't full on babyface, when the money was him being the same asshole character, but with a relatable story and genuine sympathy, that could just be an asshole to everybody. I think more people would have been upset if they went full babyface and he's kissing the sports teams ass, and high fiving the fans walking down to the ring. Sure people get reactions (Hangman got that monster pop on Dynamite this past week), but the MJF situation for a brief moment in time was lightning in a bottle. If they had pulled the trigger it would have been something really, really good for everyone. The fans, the product, and MJF himself. To me it's AEW's biggest misstep as far as storyline's goes, because Max just went back to being stale and boring. He gets reactions, but the "this is OUR GUY!" feeling is long gone. He had them, and he let them go because "your mom died when you were 7 and your dog has diabetes and aren't I just so evil!"
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Post by raymondo316 on May 21, 2023 8:15:30 GMT -5
Even if Punk actually returns, with how late this United Center show will be announced, it's going to be very hard to move a lot of tickets with just over 3 weeks notice.
It worked last time because Punk had been out of wrestling for over 7 years, so there was a big demand to see him return.....the same can't be said now.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,759
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on May 21, 2023 8:29:29 GMT -5
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 21, 2023 8:32:01 GMT -5
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 21, 2023 8:38:00 GMT -5
Hangman got a monster pop the other night, he's still incredibly over. Don't really think he has crossover appeal as is the case with almost everyone these days but a little harsh to say he's not as popular as he was, things are always going to take a bit of a downward turn after the chase is over and the babyface is champion. There just isn't a story you can tell that as compelling as a multi year odyssey for the belt, the best thing they could do would be have the other stuff he was involved in (the Elite fallout) brewing in the background and building back towards doing something there, and that's exactly what they've done. MJF turning face is a tricky one because everything they had planned for him clearly got thrown out the window when Punk did what he did, and I think if you can't book an MJF face turn perfectly then you just don't do it, that's not one you want to botch. It felt like they could have done it after the Firm turned on him for sure but I don't know where you'd go with it from there, MJF feuding with Ethan Page, Big Bill, Lee Moriarty and The Gunns would be laughed at frankly and not sure who the big heel was that he could have worked with. Could have carried on doing the tweener thing but again people would have complained that they need to just pull the trigger and turn him face. I think it's better to save it, it'd still be a monster moment if and when he turns and if Punk comes back or Jay White becomes the new top heel I think it'd work better than it would have around Full Gear. I think that since AEW's inception the reactions/organic groundswell of crowd support that MJF received by the fans was as perfect as the company has had at making a star that could go to the next level. I don't know if people would be mad that MJF wasn't full on babyface, when the money was him being the same asshole character, but with a relatable story and genuine sympathy, that could just be an asshole to everybody.I think more people would have been upset if they went full babyface and he's kissing the sports teams ass, and high fiving the fans walking down to the ring. Sure people get reactions (Hangman got that monster pop on Dynamite this past week), but the MJF situation for a brief moment in time was lightning in a bottle. If they had pulled the trigger it would have been something really, really good for everyone. The fans, the product, and MJF himself. To me it's AEW's biggest misstep as far as storyline's goes, because Max just went back to being stale and boring. He gets reactions, but the "this is OUR GUY!" feeling is long gone. He had them, and he let them go because "your mom died when you were 7 and your dog has diabetes and aren't I just so evil!" Have him be the same, just turn his ire towards heels. Have him apologize to Wardlow, hell have a moment where Wardlow is outnumbered and MJF runs down to back him up. It's possible they were gonna do that before Punk did what Punk did. MJF goes down the road to being a face, while Punk becomes a bigger asshole and allows Steel to take a bite out of the heel pie, culminating in a double turn. But that was all thrown away like a chair.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 21, 2023 8:43:01 GMT -5
AEW shouldn't have an "asshole character" like Max or Mox (or Punk) as their top babyface ace at all. They need to groom someone like Perry or Starks for that role, someone way more sympathetic.
It's not as if those last two are complete white-meat Bo Dallas types, they've shown they can get intense when the situation calls for it.
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Post by Fake Jesus on May 21, 2023 9:07:39 GMT -5
AEW shouldn't have an "asshole character" like Max or Mox (or Punk) as their top babyface ace at all. They need to groom someone like Perry or Starks for that role, someone way more sympathetic. It's not as if those last two are complete white-meat Bo Dallas types, they've shown they can get intense when the situation calls for it. Isn't that Adam Page?
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 12,516
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Post by Kalmia on May 21, 2023 10:15:31 GMT -5
It absolutely slays me that Eric Bischoff, a guy who named his autobiography "Controversy Creates Cash," thinks Punk is too much trouble. This isn't even the first time Bischoff has said something like this.
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Post by CeilingFan on May 21, 2023 10:43:52 GMT -5
Eric Bischoff, the same one who let the inmates run the Asylum in WCW.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 21, 2023 11:08:33 GMT -5
I think Adam Page has huge crossover potential, tbh. "Anxious Millennial Cowboy" is a perfect character for these times and he's genuinely likable enough to maximize that appeal.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 21, 2023 11:19:19 GMT -5
I love that people just post this picture and most people get the meaning behind it immediately.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 21, 2023 11:46:11 GMT -5
AEW shouldn't have an "asshole character" like Max or Mox (or Punk) as their top babyface ace at all. They need to groom someone like Perry or Starks for that role, someone way more sympathetic. It's not as if those last two are complete white-meat Bo Dallas types, they've shown they can get intense when the situation calls for it. Isn't that Adam Page? lt could be if they committed long-term to having him as more of a true company ambassador.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,823
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Post by markymark on May 21, 2023 11:48:57 GMT -5
Eric Bischoff, the same one who let the inmates run the Asylum in WCW.
The same person who let a high Jeff Hardy main event Victory Road 2011, one of the most LOLTNA moments ever.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 21, 2023 11:50:38 GMT -5
A lot of Eric's takes are correct but with no self awareness. Like Hitler saying "you know I've always told folks, don't invade Russia in the winter and yet here we are!"
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 21, 2023 12:14:36 GMT -5
A lot of Eric's takes are correct but with no self awareness. Like Hitler saying "you know I've always told folks, don't invade Russia in the winter and yet here we are!" The lack of self awareness is pretty amazing to me because he will go in so hard on the certainty of his words with zero thought for what he had done. It's never framed as 'I have made these mistakes before, I've seen what they do, he's heading toward a bad time' it's always Uncle Eric's Wisdom. It's just so weird and it digs right into his credibility because the ability to realize that is just not there.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 21, 2023 12:15:24 GMT -5
Ah, Eric Bischoff, the man who ruined two pro wrestling companies because he had one play and that was kissing Hulk Hogan's ass. I love how he pretends he's some great businessman when very few people ended up costing as many companies money as Eric Bischoff.
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