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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 0:45:29 GMT -5
To keep a job working for a company that doesn't permit it.
If you choose to keep working there. If you stand to make more working elsewhere, then don't work there anymore.
Companies have rules, you can either choose to follow, or choose not to. But if you choose not to, they probably won't keep you around.
I’m tired of this being to go-to excuse for when companies do shitty things. I’m tired of “it’s just how business works” being how people write off every crappy thing the WWE does. It’s a bad rule that no company should have. We need to normalize the idea that sex workers shouldn’t suffer consequences for being sex workers. We need to start calling out the companies that do this, on the regular. She chose to do this and violated her working contract...This is Mandy's fault. WWE is an abhorrent company most of the time but this isn't the hill to die on.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 15, 2022 0:54:10 GMT -5
I’ve heard reports that she was making more from her site than her WWE contract. And according to Alvarez, she had a main roster contract So how crap is WWE paying a lot of their talent as well? I forget where, but I heard she’s making in the range of $250k a month. I don’t imagine a lot of talent are making $3 million a year. Makes me even more on Sasha’s side for asking for more 💰 to come back as well.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 15, 2022 0:55:36 GMT -5
On a related note, a friend of mine runs a Horror Youtube Channel even if he age restricts his review vids Youtube will barely permit any gore or nudity at all if he wants ad dollars. America has always had a strong puritanical streak. It is quite ridiculous when compared to other countries how uptight America is. There’s a YouTube channel that I like watching that reviews movies. And he has to censor nudity as well. Like even a scene with man ass showing has caused him issues with the algorithm before.
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 15, 2022 1:00:11 GMT -5
I’m tired of this being to go-to excuse for when companies do shitty things. I’m tired of “it’s just how business works” being how people write off every crappy thing the WWE does. It’s a bad rule that no company should have. We need to normalize the idea that sex workers shouldn’t suffer consequences for being sex workers. We need to start calling out the companies that do this, on the regular. She chose to do this and violated her working contract...This is Mandy's fault. WWE is an abhorrent company most of the time but this isn't the hill to die on. I will absolutely die on this hill. I’m tired of “they signed a contract” every time the company does something shitty to one of their workers. If your argument is “they chose to sign” then my counter is “the company chose to make that rule”. And that rule is stupid and should not exist. It should not be the rule, and it should not be enforced. The company is the one with the power, let’s not pretend someone like Mandy was on an even playing field when she signed. Corporations exploit workers, and a lot of that exploitation happens in the contract phase of the relationship. The WWE has no problem profiting off of sexualizing their workers until it happens in a way they can call “immoral” and them building that into a contract doesn’t make it not wrong. We should normalize not accepting things just because they are legally allowed. Having that rule in the first place is a moral failing, enforcing it is a moral failing, and as far as I’m concerned defending it is a moral failing. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 1:01:53 GMT -5
She chose to do this and violated her working contract...This is Mandy's fault. WWE is an abhorrent company most of the time but this isn't the hill to die on. I will absolutely die on this hill. I’m tired of “they signed a contract” every time the company does something shitty to one of their workers. If your argument is “they chose to sign” then my counter is “the company chose to make that rule”. And that rule is stupid and should not exist. It should not be the rule, and it should not be enforced. The company is the one with the power, let’s not pretend someone like Mandy was on an even playing field when she signed. Corporations exploit workers, and a lot of that exploitation happens in the contract phase of the relationship. The WWE has no problem profiting off of sexualizing their workers until it happens in a way they can call “immoral” and them building that into a contract doesn’t make it not wrong. We should normalize not accepting things just because they are legally allowed. Having that rule in the first place is a moral failing, enforcing it is a moral failing, and as far as I’m concerned defending it is a moral failing. Sorry. But that is where it falls apart... They didn't do anything shitty to her in this instance... reports suggest that she was aware that they knew about her platform AND CONTINUED to do it even though it could be detrimental to her career. If so she knew full well that doing so was wrong and continued to do so. In turn, she was in agreement that what she eventually did was "wrong" when she signed up to work for them and accepted money from them. We can argue rights and freedoms but when you enter binding agreements to fulfill obligations to the best of your ability and intentionally fail to do so then it's your fault.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 15, 2022 1:04:41 GMT -5
She chose to do this and violated her working contract...This is Mandy's fault. WWE is an abhorrent company most of the time but this isn't the hill to die on. I will absolutely die on this hill. I’m tired of “they signed a contract” every time the company does something shitty to one of their workers. If your argument is “they chose to sign” then my counter is “the company chose to make that rule”. And that rule is stupid and should not exist. It should not be the rule, and it should not be enforced. The company is the one with the power, let’s not pretend someone like Mandy was on an even playing field when she signed. Corporations exploit workers, and a lot of that exploitation happens in the contract phase of the relationship. The WWE has no problem profiting off of sexualizing their workers until it happens in a way they can call “immoral” and them building that into a contract doesn’t make it not wrong. We should normalize not accepting things just because they are legally allowed. Having that rule in the first place is a moral failing, enforcing it is a moral failing, and as far as I’m concerned defending it is a moral failing. Sorry. imagine if a star of a kids show were profiting off nudes, which is pretty much what this whole Matelle thing is. There is nothing wrong with being a sex worker, but if kids look up to you then I’m sure whatever company they work for wouldn’t be cool with that. I mean Mandy can do her own thing and wwe can hire someone else. They do sexualize Mandy, but nudes are too far
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 15, 2022 1:10:50 GMT -5
She chose to do this and violated her working contract...This is Mandy's fault. WWE is an abhorrent company most of the time but this isn't the hill to die on. Exactly, imagine if a star of a kids show were profiting off nudes, which is pretty much what this whole Matelle thing is. There is nothing wrong with being a sex worker, but if kids look up to you then I’m sure whatever company they work for wouldn’t be cool with that. I mean Mandy can do her own thing and wwe can hire someone else Imagine if a star of a kids show was profiting off knitting sweaters. It’s the same thing as far as I’m concerned. Normalize sex work as just a job, and get rid of the idea that selling nudes on your own time is some moral failing we must protect the children from.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 15, 2022 1:11:27 GMT -5
She chose to do this and violated her working contract...This is Mandy's fault. WWE is an abhorrent company most of the time but this isn't the hill to die on. I will absolutely die on this hill. I’m tired of “they signed a contract” every time the company does something shitty to one of their workers. If your argument is “they chose to sign” then my counter is “the company chose to make that rule”. And that rule is stupid and should not exist. It should not be the rule, and it should not be enforced. The company is the one with the power, let’s not pretend someone like Mandy was on an even playing field when she signed. Corporations exploit workers, and a lot of that exploitation happens in the contract phase of the relationship. The WWE has no problem profiting off of sexualizing their workers until it happens in a way they can call “immoral” and them building that into a contract doesn’t make it not wrong. We should normalize not accepting things just because they are legally allowed. Having that rule in the first place is a moral failing, enforcing it is a moral failing, and as far as I’m concerned defending it is a moral failing. Sorry. Ultimately signing the contract is on you. You as the party are supposed to have read and understood every detail of your contract. If you DO NOT agree, you don't sign it. Once you sign it is binding Shit ain't fair but that's how it works. I think a lot of y'all if you signed a contract for your job should go back and read it if you have not. Everyone has a morality clause in you are some way damaging the brand or company you can be terminated and if you want to hear something even more f***ed up, they also have in the print they can fire you without explanation Corporations do exploit people and you have many options in how you want to make money but if you sign that contract knowing the terms and conditions then you are supposed to abide by it. Of course if you don't agree otherwise you can quit, get fired etc and make money in a way that works best for you and your morales. Everyone has an option
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 15, 2022 1:14:10 GMT -5
I will absolutely die on this hill. I’m tired of “they signed a contract” every time the company does something shitty to one of their workers. If your argument is “they chose to sign” then my counter is “the company chose to make that rule”. And that rule is stupid and should not exist. It should not be the rule, and it should not be enforced. The company is the one with the power, let’s not pretend someone like Mandy was on an even playing field when she signed. Corporations exploit workers, and a lot of that exploitation happens in the contract phase of the relationship. The WWE has no problem profiting off of sexualizing their workers until it happens in a way they can call “immoral” and them building that into a contract doesn’t make it not wrong. We should normalize not accepting things just because they are legally allowed. Having that rule in the first place is a moral failing, enforcing it is a moral failing, and as far as I’m concerned defending it is a moral failing. Sorry. But that is where it falls apart... They didn't do anything shitty to her in this instance... reports suggest that she was well aware that they knew AND CONTINUED to do it. She knew full well that doing so was wrong and continued to do so. She was in agreement that what she did was "wrong" when she signed to work for them and accepted money from them. We an argue rights and freedoms but when you enter binding agreements to fulfill obligations at the best of your ability and intentionally fail to do so then it's your fault. Your last sentence is why we will not see eye to eye. Having it in the contract in the first place is shitty. Therefore enforcing it is shitty. Just like I will look down on a cop for going after someone who was jaywalking across a dead street at 4AM, I will look down on a company for punishing employees for things that don’t actually deserve punishment. Saying “but it’s the rules” doesn’t sway me. I’m tired of the WWE always getting a pass for creating shitty rules that disadvantage their employees.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Dec 15, 2022 1:15:41 GMT -5
But that is where it falls apart... They didn't do anything shitty to her in this instance... reports suggest that she was well aware that they knew AND CONTINUED to do it. She knew full well that doing so was wrong and continued to do so. She was in agreement that what she did was "wrong" when she signed to work for them and accepted money from them. We an argue rights and freedoms but when you enter binding agreements to fulfill obligations at the best of your ability and intentionally fail to do so then it's your fault. Your last sentence is why we will not see eye to eye. Having it in the contract in the first place is shitty. Therefore enforcing it is shitty. Just like I will look down on a cop for going after someone who was jaywalking across a dead street at 4AM, I will look down on a company for punishing employees for things that don’t actually deserve punishment. Saying “but it’s the rules” doesn’t sway me. I’m tired of the WWE always getting a pass for creating shitty rules that disadvantage their employees. So f*** contracts and do whatever? Yeah, that's not how the world works. Never has been.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 15, 2022 1:18:35 GMT -5
But that is where it falls apart... They didn't do anything shitty to her in this instance... reports suggest that she was well aware that they knew AND CONTINUED to do it. She knew full well that doing so was wrong and continued to do so. She was in agreement that what she did was "wrong" when she signed to work for them and accepted money from them. We an argue rights and freedoms but when you enter binding agreements to fulfill obligations at the best of your ability and intentionally fail to do so then it's your fault. Your last sentence is why we will not see eye to eye. Having it in the contract in the first place is shitty. Therefore enforcing it is shitty. Just like I will look down on a cop for going after someone who was jaywalking across a dead street at 4AM, I will look down on a company for punishing employees for things that don’t actually deserve punishment. Saying “but it’s the rules” doesn’t sway me. I’m tired of the WWE always getting a pass for creating shitty rules that disadvantage their employees. Lol if anything wwe gave Mandy a shot in the arm and are the reason why she is making so much money with her nudes. If she wasn’t a former wwe star then I don’t think she would be making as much so I don’t think it was a “disadvantage”. Something like twitch or whatever the video game thing is, I understand getting mad if wwe weren’t allowing stars to do that (idk if they are or not anymore after HHH took over) but I’ll give ‘em a pass on this
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Dec 15, 2022 1:21:09 GMT -5
Your last sentence is why we will not see eye to eye. Having it in the contract in the first place is shitty. Therefore enforcing it is shitty. Just like I will look down on a cop for going after someone who was jaywalking across a dead street at 4AM, I will look down on a company for punishing employees for things that don’t actually deserve punishment. Saying “but it’s the rules” doesn’t sway me. I’m tired of the WWE always getting a pass for creating shitty rules that disadvantage their employees. Lol if anything wwe gave Mandy a shot in the arm and are the reason why she is making so much money with her nudes. If she wasn’t a former wwe star then I don’t think she would be making as much so I don’t think it was a “disadvantage”. Something like twitch or whatever the video game thing is, I understand getting mad if wwe weren’t allowing stars to do that (idk if they are or not anymore after HHH took over) but I’ll give ‘em a pass on this UpUpDownDown pretty much came back after Trips took over (and Breeze has been allowed to be in the vids), and Dakota does still stream so something is changing on that front, slowly at least.
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 15, 2022 1:24:17 GMT -5
Your last sentence is why we will not see eye to eye. Having it in the contract in the first place is shitty. Therefore enforcing it is shitty. Just like I will look down on a cop for going after someone who was jaywalking across a dead street at 4AM, I will look down on a company for punishing employees for things that don’t actually deserve punishment. Saying “but it’s the rules” doesn’t sway me. I’m tired of the WWE always getting a pass for creating shitty rules that disadvantage their employees. So f*** contracts and do whatever? Yeah, that's not how the world works. Never has been. Companies get away with taking advantage of workers with bad contracts because we as a society allow them to with the “that’s just how the world works” mentality. If you’re not willing to actually call out corporations that are shitty about sex work, that’s your choice. But I sure as hell will. I’m tired of seeing sex work treated this way, at every level of capitalism. It sucks and sorry but you will not shut me down with all of the usual excuses everyone uses to normalize all the worst things about capitalism. But with that I’m backing out of this conversation before I start getting too political for the rules of this board.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Dec 15, 2022 1:26:31 GMT -5
So f*** contracts and do whatever? Yeah, that's not how the world works. Never has been. Companies get away with taking advantage of workers with bad contracts because we as a society allow them to with the “that’s just how the world works” mentality. If you’re not willing to actually call out corporations that are shitty about sex work, that’s your choice. But I sure as hell will. I’m tired of seeing sex work treated this way, at every level of capitalism. It sucks and sorry but you will not shut me down with all of the usual excuses everyone uses to normalize all the worst things about capitalism. But with that I’m backing out of this conversation before I start getting too political for the rules of this board. This is the worst hill to die on that I've seen since the Cornette threads.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 15, 2022 1:29:03 GMT -5
Just to add here because I’m moving on from some of the weirdness in this thread
If WWE held up their end on contracts and didn’t just cut them when they felt like it for no reason, even if they “legally” can do that, I’d take seriously the fact that contracts mean something.
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Dec 15, 2022 1:29:44 GMT -5
On a related note, a friend of mine runs a Horror Youtube Channel even if he age restricts his review vids Youtube will barely permit any gore or nudity at all if he wants ad dollars. America has always had a strong puritanical streak. It is quite ridiculous when compared to other countries how uptight America is. Truth. We still have a ways to go, honestly.
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 15, 2022 1:33:33 GMT -5
Companies get away with taking advantage of workers with bad contracts because we as a society allow them to with the “that’s just how the world works” mentality. If you’re not willing to actually call out corporations that are shitty about sex work, that’s your choice. But I sure as hell will. I’m tired of seeing sex work treated this way, at every level of capitalism. It sucks and sorry but you will not shut me down with all of the usual excuses everyone uses to normalize all the worst things about capitalism. But with that I’m backing out of this conversation before I start getting too political for the rules of this board. This is the worst hill to die on that I've seen since the Cornette threads. Yeah if you’re going to compare “firing people for sex work is bad regardless of it being in a contract or not and we as a society should call out companies that do it” as a comparable position to any of Cornette’s bigoted bullshit then you can go ahead and never speak to me again.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Dec 15, 2022 1:34:51 GMT -5
Just to add here because I’m moving on from some of the weirdness in this thread If WWE held up their end on contracts and didn’t just cut them when they felt like it for no reason, even if they “legally” can do that, I’d take seriously the fact that contracts mean something. Well, this is what, the first, second instance of the current management cutting anyone for any reason? If it was Vince in charge with the endless budget cuts I'd probably agree on that. Really haven't had anything like this come up since he left.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 1:35:15 GMT -5
Hell what people don't understand if these were much worse she could likely get a call from Mr. McDevitt especially if it costs them sponsorship.
Protection of public image in relation to intellectual property is of the utmost importance for any company with major sponsors.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 1:39:09 GMT -5
What that says about society and our antiquated views especially in America is a different thing
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