Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 16, 2022 14:27:42 GMT -5
AEW's 18-whatever numbers are exactly the reason TNT/TBS love them so much. They're attracting new fans no matter what anyone thinks. Overall viewership means squat when compared to those key viewership and they're doing great in those. Those are probably the best measurement in "casual fans" and overall growth as can be imo. AEW and WWE consistently place in the top cable shows for the night! Consistently! AEW loses some nights only to basketball! A regularly reposted/screencapped tweet I see is "Welcome to Twitter. Here is your copy of the Communist Manifesto and a season pass to Monday Night RAW for some reason" from back in 2015 and which still gets used today because wrestling will trend strong and consistently. It's one of the most active weekly fanbases on the website and it's a year-round juggernaut because it doesn't take breaks. There's a lot of people who watched wrestling when it was mega popular and a fad many years ago who aren't watching again. That isn't a failure on wrestling for the same reason that heavy metal not being played on MTV anymore isn't some condemnation against its existence. Trends change. Tastes change. But what's insanely frustrating here is how much wrestling is still big and strong in the modern media landscape, but because some people don't understand the modern media landscape and think people still channel surf in any meaningful numbers, it's somehow not really big anymore. Who the hell "channel surfs" anymore anyways? Most people who tune into a cable channel anymore, those who haven't cut the cord that is, do so by word of mouth and Twitter trends nowadays.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 16, 2022 14:28:09 GMT -5
Y'know what, credit where credit is due: this is the most substantive reply you've ever made to my arguments with you. I still think "what my Twitter followers think" is...pretty much as filtered as you're going to get for a wide question like this, but hey, at least this is an answer. Still doesn't really address this question though: would you prefer if wrestling were the way you like it, or would you prefer if wrestling were more popular? Do you accept that those are not 100% the same thing? The way I like my wrestling just so happens to be the way it was when it was at its most popular. Big muscley men slapping meat. That's what I like to see. Give me Bruno Sammartino vs Billy Graham any day over two guys who are skinnier than me doing a chereographed acrobatics routine. But isn't it possible that what was popular then isn't what would make it popular now? That's what your whole argument hinges on and it's what gets so much pushback. Wrestling didn't stop being that overnight; the Ruthless Aggression era saw a steady decline in viewership while still trying to chase those ideas. The entire idea that if they just went back to it, all these people would return and it'd be big again ignores that people tuned out while it was still that. WWE took years and grating against its audience's changing tastes to take chances on other stars and begin looking for other priorities in their hiring methods. That's not an answer to the question because the question directly confronts the idea that maybe wrestling's popularity isn't in what it was twenty-five years ago.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 16, 2022 14:30:05 GMT -5
The way I like my wrestling just so happens to be the way it was when it was at its most popular. Big muscley men slapping meat. That's what I like to see. Give me Bruno Sammartino vs Billy Graham any day over two guys who are skinnier than me doing a chereographed acrobatics routine. But isn't it possible that what was popular then isn't what would make it popular now? That's what your whole argument hinges on and it's what gets so much pushback. Wrestling didn't stop being that overnight; the Ruthless Aggression era saw a steady decline in viewership while still trying to chase those ideas. The entire idea that if they just went back to it, all these people would return and it'd be big again ignores that people tuned out while it was still that. WWE took years and grating against its audience's changing tastes to take chances on other stars and begin looking for other priorities in their hiring methods. That's not an answer to the question because the question directly confronts the idea that maybe wrestling's popularity isn't in what it was twenty-five years ago. It's like me saying K Pop isn't popular and music should go back to hair metal bands because that's the music I'd rather listen to. A clearly incorrect fact.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 16, 2022 14:32:59 GMT -5
Y'know what, credit where credit is due: this is the most substantive reply you've ever made to my arguments with you. I still think "what my Twitter followers think" is...pretty much as filtered as you're going to get for a wide question like this, but hey, at least this is an answer. Still doesn't really address this question though: would you prefer if wrestling were the way you like it, or would you prefer if wrestling were more popular? Do you accept that those are not 100% the same thing? The way I like my wrestling just so happens to be the way it was when it was at its most popular. Big muscley men slapping meat. That's what I like to see. Give me Bruno Sammartino vs Billy Graham any day over two guys who are skinnier than me doing a chereographed acrobatics routine. You'd probably love NWA then. Go watch that and leave us alone.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 16, 2022 14:33:59 GMT -5
But isn't it possible that what was popular then isn't what would make it popular now? That's what your whole argument hinges on and it's what gets so much pushback. Wrestling didn't stop being that overnight; the Ruthless Aggression era saw a steady decline in viewership while still trying to chase those ideas. The entire idea that if they just went back to it, all these people would return and it'd be big again ignores that people tuned out while it was still that. WWE took years and grating against its audience's changing tastes to take chances on other stars and begin looking for other priorities in their hiring methods. That's not an answer to the question because the question directly confronts the idea that maybe wrestling's popularity isn't in what it was twenty-five years ago. It's like me saying K Pop isn't popular and music should go back to hair metal bands because that's the music I'd rather listen to. A clearly incorrect fact. I mean music should go back to hair metal because that'd be way better; kids today can't recognize How Much Love by Vixen by riff alone and that's a societal ill we need to address. But I'm not gonna say that actually what everyone wants is definitely hair metal and the record industry is only appealing to mentally ill teenagers on twitter and holding music back from popularity.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 16, 2022 14:34:21 GMT -5
The way I like my wrestling just so happens to be the way it was when it was at its most popular. Big muscley men slapping meat. That's what I like to see. Give me Bruno Sammartino vs Billy Graham any day over two guys who are skinnier than me doing a chereographed acrobatics routine. You'd probably love NWA then. Go watch that and leave us alone. I used to say I wouldn't wish modern NWA on someone but.......
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 16, 2022 14:35:03 GMT -5
It's like me saying K Pop isn't popular and music should go back to hair metal bands because that's the music I'd rather listen to. A clearly incorrect fact. I mean music should go back to hair metal because that'd be way better; kids today can't recognize How Much Love by Vixen by riff alone and that's a societal ill we need to address. But I'm not gonna say that actually what everyone wants is definitely hair metal and the record industry is only appealing to mentally ill teenagers on twitter and holding music back from popularity. Knew there was a reason I liked you.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Dec 16, 2022 14:43:59 GMT -5
You think Andretti goes to the bank and the teller goes "Wait you look just like IWGP United States Heavyweight Champion Will Ospreay! I don't watch wrestling and I don't know anyone, but that's why I don't watch it. Wear something other than kickpads, dorkus" and then denies him a savings account? If Andretti's gimmick was "He never takes off his ringgear, even while going to the bank" I would be a giant fan
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Post by Cyno on Dec 16, 2022 14:44:54 GMT -5
AEW's 18-whatever numbers are exactly the reason TNT/TBS love them so much. They're attracting new fans no matter what anyone thinks. Overall viewership means squat when compared to those key viewership and they're doing great in those. Those are probably the best measurement in "casual fans" and overall growth as can be imo. AEW and WWE consistently place in the top cable shows for the night! Consistently! AEW loses some nights only to basketball! A regularly reposted/screencapped tweet I see is "Welcome to Twitter. Here is your copy of the Communist Manifesto and a season pass to Monday Night RAW for some reason" from back in 2015 and which still gets used today because wrestling will trend strong and consistently. It's one of the most active weekly fanbases on the website and it's a year-round juggernaut because it doesn't take breaks. There's a lot of people who watched wrestling when it was mega popular and a fad many years ago who aren't watching again. That isn't a failure on wrestling for the same reason that heavy metal not being played on MTV anymore isn't some condemnation against its existence. Trends change. Tastes change. But what's insanely frustrating here is how much wrestling is still big and strong in the modern media landscape, but because some people don't understand the modern media landscape and think people still channel surf in any meaningful numbers, it's somehow not really big anymore. Millions of people watched the Acclaimed train Charli D'Amelio and her sister in how to wrestle. This is someone who has millions upon millions of followers across social media. Until Caster shared the news on his Instagram, I never even heard of Charli D'Amelio. But instead of going "it's the children who are wrong!" I acknowledge that there are people who are super famous that I have no clue who they are because they got popular through means I never really paid attention to.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,434
Member is Online
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Post by FinalGwen on Dec 16, 2022 14:49:55 GMT -5
You think Andretti goes to the bank and the teller goes "Wait you look just like IWGP United States Heavyweight Champion Will Ospreay! I don't watch wrestling and I don't know anyone, but that's why I don't watch it. Wear something other than kickpads, dorkus" and then denies him a savings account? If Andretti's gimmick was "He never takes off his ringgear, even while going to the bank" I would be a giant fan That's just PAC.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 11,693
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Post by Facetious on Dec 16, 2022 14:59:09 GMT -5
I need wrestling to go back to being 6'5 dudes that spend 30 minutes trading chin locks. America wants slow, not fast. That's why YouTube is still king and not Tiktok
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Post by Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV on Dec 16, 2022 14:59:24 GMT -5
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 16, 2022 15:00:54 GMT -5
His name sounds familiar...did he do WrestlePro before?
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Post by Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV on Dec 16, 2022 15:20:33 GMT -5
I need wrestling to go back to being 6'5 dudes that spend 30 minutes trading chin locks. America wants slow, not fast. That's why YouTube is still king and not Tiktok As a 20 something my foremost passion is to watch 8 Ball vs. Henry Godwinn and think hey what the f*** was everyone's problem
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 16, 2022 15:45:36 GMT -5
AEW and WWE consistently place in the top cable shows for the night! Consistently! AEW loses some nights only to basketball! A regularly reposted/screencapped tweet I see is "Welcome to Twitter. Here is your copy of the Communist Manifesto and a season pass to Monday Night RAW for some reason" from back in 2015 and which still gets used today because wrestling will trend strong and consistently. It's one of the most active weekly fanbases on the website and it's a year-round juggernaut because it doesn't take breaks. There's a lot of people who watched wrestling when it was mega popular and a fad many years ago who aren't watching again. That isn't a failure on wrestling for the same reason that heavy metal not being played on MTV anymore isn't some condemnation against its existence. Trends change. Tastes change. But what's insanely frustrating here is how much wrestling is still big and strong in the modern media landscape, but because some people don't understand the modern media landscape and think people still channel surf in any meaningful numbers, it's somehow not really big anymore. Millions of people watched the Acclaimed train Charli D'Amelio and her sister in how to wrestle. This is someone who has millions upon millions of followers across social media. Until Caster shared the news on his Instagram, I never even heard of Charli D'Amelio. But instead of going "it's the children who are wrong!" I acknowledge that there are people who are super famous that I have no clue who they are because they got popular through means I never really paid attention to. But it is the children who are wrong!
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,878
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Post by Dub H on Dec 16, 2022 15:47:20 GMT -5
It's like me saying K Pop isn't popular and music should go back to hair metal bands because that's the music I'd rather listen to. A clearly incorrect fact. I mean music should go back to hair metal because that'd be way better; kids today can't recognize How Much Love by Vixen by riff alone and that's a societal ill we need to address. But I'm not gonna say that actually what everyone wants is definitely hair metal and the record industry is only appealing to mentally ill teenagers on twitter and holding music back from popularity. Personally if there isnt at least one person with non-natural hair color on the band, I dont listen to.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 16, 2022 17:22:41 GMT -5
Y'know what, credit where credit is due: this is the most substantive reply you've ever made to my arguments with you. I still think "what my Twitter followers think" is...pretty much as filtered as you're going to get for a wide question like this, but hey, at least this is an answer. Still doesn't really address this question though: would you prefer if wrestling were the way you like it, or would you prefer if wrestling were more popular? Do you accept that those are not 100% the same thing? The way I like my wrestling just so happens to be the way it was when it was at its most popular. Big muscley men slapping meat. That's what I like to see. Give me Bruno Sammartino vs Billy Graham any day over two guys who are skinnier than me doing a chereographed acrobatics routine. Then go watch Billy Graham and Bruno Sammartino tapes and stop trying to ruin every AEW Thread with your ridiculous projections about modern day wrestling, literally multiple threads now of you puffing out your chest, acting like your preferences are better than everyone else, trying to argue that because you have "A large Twitter following" that makes your opinion more valid (I have a large Twitter following too, it doesn't), and the whole "These guys are skinnier than me/I looked like Ricky Starks in three months" bullshit, like holy crap, enough lmfao You don't come off like a real person in half your posts, and that's not me trying to be mean, it's just the truth, you actually believing half the shit you post is unbelievable. And the fact you continue to push this insane narrative is at the very least respectable in how absolutely brutish you are in attempting it, but it is annoying to almost everyone else who has told you at repeated lengths to please stop because it ruins the entire thread. Your mentality reflects a current promotion called The NWA, a promotion that a lot of people consider to be dying and in dire straights for the exact narrative they're trying to push in 2022. So for all the pomp and circumstance you wanna throw out here repeatedly that wrestling would be in a better place if it was exactly the way you and your "Twitter Followers" thought? No. It'd be dead, or dying a horrible death, just like it is in the NWA right now. And f***ing miss me with the "There are no new fans being made because I don't see them" shit, there are children in AEW crowds every show, same for WWE. New fans are being made, you just choose to ignore them to push your own viewpoints, same as like, every other discussion you've had here about this subject, and you wonder why people keep telling you off about it or are tired are hearing it, count me in the pile. I'm tired of this, I'd be thankful if I never saw it again. I don't hate you, and in fact sometimes Negan I've agreed with you on subjects (Not this one, clearly), but I think you have to realize that wrestling might just be passing you by, especially if you are leaving absolutely no wiggle room to give it a chance or open up your mind to enjoy it now, and you have to come down constantly on the product that everyone else is clearly enjoying but yourself in discussions like this. It's just not worth this kind of headache, you get mad, we get mad, and nothing is solved, it's just another thread, a great thread that should be nothing but positivity for an amazing moment in wrestling as a whole, getting railroaded because we once again have to have the SAME conversation about "What modern wrestling should be" and it quickly turns into a "STOP HAVING FUN" cycle, and idk if you're tired of it, but looking at this thread, a lot of people really are, and this ain't workin' brother.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 16, 2022 17:45:53 GMT -5
I mean if the key to attracting casual fans was slow, lumbering matches featuring big guys then I'd imagine people would actually give a f*** about the NWA.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 16, 2022 17:52:13 GMT -5
Nobody wants the empty spectacle of intricate acrobatic moves, they only want the empty spectacle of men who are 6'2" or taller and have steroid-enhanced muscles. This is a rigid dichotomy in which the former is only enjoyable to weird nerds and the latter is enjoyable to everyone else, who have been deemed "the mainstream" and whose opinions matter more.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 16, 2022 17:54:27 GMT -5
I watched Dynamite with my 17 year old brother and sister a couple weeks ago. You know who they thought looked cool? Orange Cassidy, Darby Allin, and the Acclaimed
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