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Post by chronocross on Jan 12, 2023 10:12:59 GMT -5
I'm glad the audience didn't s*** on the competitors and appreciated the match itself even if it was a bit clunky at the end.
The Mercedes hype/speculation was not as heavy-handed as the CM Punk debut, this one was just a one-off slight reference.
I felt bad for Toni as she looked upset about something as she came through the curtain.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 12, 2023 10:16:43 GMT -5
I felt bad for Toni as she looked upset about something as she came through the curtain. See, she's looked like that for weeks, especially for this feud so I honestly don't get how it's come off that way. Like, people were saying that before the Full Gear match but she literally had the same look when she returned previously.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 12, 2023 10:20:12 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
1. AEW has rewarded fans that look for the hint. Darby's whole "Best in the World" line paid off and what Britt did last week was pretty similar. I don't blame people for getting excited. AEW's never hit people over the head like "THIS PERSON IS COMING." It's not how they do things. So a hint like that had the response it did because this company has trained people to respond that way.
2. If this was a situation where New Japan wanted her match to go first but she actually is planning to do some AEW stuff, then both parties should have agreed on some marketing language for her first show like "don't miss Mercedes Mone's first U.S. appearance" or something.
3. If they knew she wouldn't be there this week *and* they don't know if she's coming in the future, don't do that "Boss" tease.
At the end of the day, I feel like she's probably going to show up at some point and the AEW diehards will be like "SEE? AEW DID THE RIGHT THING, GOSH, HAVE PATIENCE!" while ignoring that the build for this whole thing kind of hinted at somebody new coming in based on how wrestling has worked for decades, until last week, when they announced a partner and still dropped a tease.
Is it a "carnie" thing to do? I'm not sure I'd go that far, but it's still feels like they could have done a little more damage control if they knew she's not coming in, but I also get letting people think it's happening so that they boo after the match instead of during the match.
It's a situation where the company couldn't win unless she walked through the curtain and it's also one that will probably be forgotten in a few days, so, hey.
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Post by Harry The Arrow was Wrong! on Jan 12, 2023 10:24:27 GMT -5
Yeah that was clearly Toni being in character.
Am I surprised Mercedes didn't show up? Kind of, yeah.
Am I upset? Honestly? Not as much as I thought I would be now that I'm looking back on it. Match was great, crowd were super in to it and it gives us development on a possible heel turn for Shida. Heel Shida will be awesome.
But yeah, clearly Mercedes was the plan but the deal fell through I guess. Oh well, maybe sometime in future.
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Post by chronocross on Jan 12, 2023 10:27:04 GMT -5
I felt bad for Toni as she looked upset about something as she came through the curtain. See, she's looked like that for weeks, especially for this feud so I honestly don't get how it's come off that way. Like, people were saying that before the Full Gear match but she literally had the same look when she returned previously. I admit I have not seen much of her work from week to week, so if it's building to something then my mistake for not seeing that earlier.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 12, 2023 10:27:17 GMT -5
Hey, look…I feel like I can admit I was wrong and I was. But people acting like it was a massive sabotage of a segment…it fundamentally wasn’t. The difference being you can suggest that, well, it gives some substance to NJPW/STARDOM wanting her first America match since leaving WWE which, hey, fair, that’s what these agreements are for. And even with the Boss line, it wasn’t the same as having the Rampage announcement, Darby saying “Best in the World” and MJF quoting the Pipebomb in the same night. If CM Punk didn’t show up after that, well, it’d be a fundamental failure. This, well, will likely be remembered down the line. They announced a mystery partner tag match 5 weeks in advance. Tony said that “you’ll find out the partner in January” line on a podcast. They did the “Boss” and wink line last week. Saraya yesterday talked about putting the two tickets Britt gave her to good use. And then Britt and Jamie were wearing extremely similar gear to Mercedes’ WK gear. AEW has conditioned viewers to look into and believe the subtle hints because they usually deliver. This was a miss.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 12, 2023 10:27:41 GMT -5
2. If this was a situation where New Japan wanted her match to go first but she actually is planning to do some AEW stuff, then both parties should have agreed on some marketing language for her first show like "don't miss Mercedes Mone's first U.S. appearance" or something. 3. If they knew she wouldn't be there this week *and* they don't know if she's coming in the future, don't do that "Boss" tease. I will agree with both of these, I'd have had New Japan promote it as her first US appearance and basically make that clear, especially since that wouldn't exactly affect ticket sales since, well, they were practically gone either way. But I feel comparing it to Punk is a bit disingenuous, the Darby line and the MJF paraphrasing came directly after Schiavone announced the second Rampage taping at the United Centre, it being called "The First Dance" and lingered on the crowd chanting CM Punk basically bludgeoning you over the head in saying " WE HEARD THE RUMORS, THEY'RE TRUE, WE GOT HIM, WATCH RAMPAGE!!". Like, I'd argue there was nothing to compare it to before or after because of just how much they said and didn't say. Having Britt say "I'm the Boss" doesn't really compare because it only was followed up with a story beat that you could have done without that and I'd agree with Saraya was like "We need to make a statement next week" or something. But I agree, if there was a change, I would have cut it.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 12, 2023 10:29:01 GMT -5
He's absolutelty carnying. He took some buzz and interest and spun it in to an 'ohhh, maybe' and then had Britt drop a fake hint to reinforce that. I dont blame the guy, anything for the numbers, but that was definitely some carny bull. I am completely convinced it was supposed to be Mercedes though, like Britt wouldn't drop that line for nothing, AEW never just drops lines for nothing I think the New Japan dates legit f***ed this up, likely they didn't want to risk Mone in a tag match before Battle in the Valley Tony going Carny to me would have been keeping the partner a mystery the entire time, only for Toni to walk out. We had people reporting like Meltzer that she wasn't gonna be there, and a lot of that began to happen when it was announced she was gonna be at New Japan I think the Boss line was kept in because Mone will be in AEW, but not until Battle in the Valley's over with. I don't think this was an "Anything for the numbers" pull, or there would have been a hell of a lot more to it. There’s a poster on the Meltzer forums who claims to know Mercedes and said she was never booked for the appearance, and wasn’t happy about the tease.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 12, 2023 10:30:53 GMT -5
I admit I have not seen much of her work from week to week, so if it's building to something then my mistake for not seeing that earlier. No, that's completely understandable and nothing like that is needed, it's one of the things I noticed as the feud went on because it wasn't when she was wrestling everyone for about two months or so on Dynamite.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 12, 2023 10:31:32 GMT -5
2. If this was a situation where New Japan wanted her match to go first but she actually is planning to do some AEW stuff, then both parties should have agreed on some marketing language for her first show like "don't miss Mercedes Mone's first U.S. appearance" or something. 3. If they knew she wouldn't be there this week *and* they don't know if she's coming in the future, don't do that "Boss" tease. I will agree with both of these, I'd have had New Japan promote it as her first US appearance and basically make that clear, especially since that wouldn't exactly affect ticket sales since, well, they were practically gone either way. But I feel comparing it to Punk is a bit disingenuous, the Darby line and the MJF paraphrasing came directly after Schiavone announced the second Rampage taping at the United Centre, it being called "The First Dance" and lingered on the crowd chanting CM Punk basically bludgeoning you over the head in saying " WE HEARD THE RUMORS, THEY'RE TRUE, WE GOT HIM, WATCH RAMPAGE!!". Like, I'd argue there was nothing to compare it to before or after because of just how much they said and didn't say. Having Britt say "I'm the Boss" doesn't really compare because it only was followed up with a story beat that you could have done without that and I'd agree with Saraya was like "We need to make a statement next week" or something. But I agree, if there was a change, I would have cut it. Yeah, I get that the Punk teases were on a different level, but I guess my point was that the company likes throwing out easter eggs and rewarding people for it. Maybe the Punk tease wasn't the right comparison, but the company's done stuff like that before. I think anybody trying to call it false advertising or something is reaching but I get why people were disappointed. Honestly, I think it'll be something forgotten in a few weeks either way, but I think it's something at least worth a bit of criticism. If she's had no contact and has no plans of coming in and they did that, I think that's shitty and should be called out further. If she shows up and this is just a story beat, then we'll all just deal with being a bit disappointed for a happier moment down the road.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 12, 2023 10:32:11 GMT -5
Only one time in a pre-recorded segment, where Britt said "I'm the boss" and gave a wink. They had a later segment that night where Toni was picked to be Saraya's partner So they never outright said Sasha was going to be at the show and went out of their way to eliminate the mystery partner angle outright Something clearly came up from the announcement to now, the likely thing being that New Japan wants Mercedes first appearance and with the match booked against Kairi at Battle of the Valley, want that to be her first match out of WWE to give it more buzz and sell more tickets If that's the case, it's unfortunate, but New Japan's a valued partner, you wanna keep them happy, and Mercedes can pop up in AEW at any time now. There was also the Grapsody interview where he said he couldn't reveal who the partner was till January. He carnied that. He played on people thinking it would be Sasha. Right. He was very cat that ate the canary about it. Like, I get it. The defense is "well they never *said* it'd be Mercedes/Sasha", and that's true. But they were throwing enough breadcrumbs (the mystery partner angle, the timing her her deal being up with the chosen date for said match, Tony's interview, Britt's "Boss" wink and nod) for fans to put 1+1 together and expect her. AEW didn't do anything "wrong" per se, but they also kinda screwed up
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 12, 2023 10:32:55 GMT -5
I will also add occasional Ls like this are fine. The problem is when they come weekly and consistently and it dilutes interest in the product overall which I'm always hoping that doesn't happen. It was one of the reasons I stopped watching WWE and gave up on Impact for a long time.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 12, 2023 10:35:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I get that the Punk teases were on a different level, but I guess my point was that the company likes throwing out easter eggs and rewarding people for it. Maybe the Punk tease wasn't the right comparison, but the company's done stuff like that before. I think anybody trying to call it false advertising or something is reaching but I get why people were disappointed. Honestly, I think it'll be something forgotten in a few weeks either way, but I think it's something at least worth a bit of criticism. If she's had no contact and has no plans of coming in and they did that, I think that's shitty and should be called out further. If she shows up and this is just a story beat, then we'll all just deal with being a bit disappointed for a happier moment down the road. All of that is fair, it'll depend on what happens down the line as well.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 12, 2023 10:35:13 GMT -5
I will also add occasional Ls like this are fine. The problem is when they come weekly and consistently and it dilutes interest in the product overall which I'm always hoping that doesn't happen. It was one of the reasons I stopped watching WWE and gave up on Impact for a long time. Agreed and AEW is a *long* way off from it being considered anything close to a real problem
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 12, 2023 10:38:13 GMT -5
I will also add occasional Ls like this are fine. The problem is when they come weekly and consistently and it dilutes interest in the product overall which I'm always hoping that doesn't happen. It was one of the reasons I stopped watching WWE and gave up on Impact for a long time. Agreed and AEW is a *long* way off from it being considered anything close to a real problem I think the simplest way to put it is that is it worth criticism in the aftermath of the show? Maybe. If people are trying to bring this up in a week, then I'd argue it's probably a bad faith argument given that this wasn't some catastrophic promotional misstep.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jan 12, 2023 10:41:32 GMT -5
Again I believe it had something to do with New Japan, or she just wants to freelance in the meanwhile.
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pinja
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Post by pinja on Jan 12, 2023 10:56:46 GMT -5
Mercedes tried to walk there in time, but she didn't change shoes since her Kairi beatdown. Think the shoes would be the least of her issues trying to walk from Japan to Los Angeles. Be a bit wet, for one. You've heard about people walking on water. You've never heard about people walking to LA in those shoes. So the shoes may be the biggest problem. =8|
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fingers on Jan 12, 2023 10:58:23 GMT -5
I HAD A DREAM I
I DIDN'T MAKE IT
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 12, 2023 11:00:44 GMT -5
Again I believe it had something to do with New Japan, or she just wants to freelance in the meanwhile.
I don't think gear is really an indicator, honestly. Some of that stuff is made weeks in advance and I doubt they're all talking to each other to coordinate it.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 12, 2023 11:01:57 GMT -5
Think the shoes would be the least of her issues trying to walk from Japan to Los Angeles. Be a bit wet, for one. You've heard about people walking on water. You've never heard about people walking to LA in those shoes. So the shoes may be the biggest problem. =8| I mean, she'd have a better chance if she ditched the shoes. If she tried to swim in those, she'd sink.
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