CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
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Post by CMWaters on Jan 10, 2023 22:14:15 GMT -5
1995 not only has bad gimmick after bad gimmick, but they decided to take Owen Hart and Bob Backlund, the two top heels in the match after Shawn, and have them get dumped out within seconds of entering, so they don't get to do anything to offset all the other jobbers in the match. Totally agree with you. Even with the lack of star power they could have booked an exciting match. The use of Owen and Backlund is ridiculous. Bundy is also under-utilised. To just add another point on 1995, it featured just ONE ex-champion (Backlund) and only ONE future champion (Shawn). I mean, while you had plenty of future World Champions in 1998 in Foley (three times), Rock, Bradshaw, Henry and Austin (and Shamrock and Jarrett if you include NWA-TNA and WCW), you didn't have any former WWF Champions in that match (Though you did have former NWA and ECW Champ Terry Funk as Chainsaw Charlie and former WCW Champions in Faarooq and Vader, but this was the time that they didn't count that to world title total due to WCW still existing).
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 12, 2023 3:33:31 GMT -5
1997 was terrible unless you cared for Mexican talent Couldn't disagree more. There's a spot in there where Terry Funk, Mick Foley, Bret Hart and Steve Austin are all in the ring at the same time. As far as I know it's the only time my 4 favorite wrestlers of all time shared the ring together.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 12, 2023 4:25:52 GMT -5
Bus home thought: Rikishi getting as over as he did in 2000 is why the dancing big man became such a recurring trope for the WWF/WWE in the many years since (and even then, it’s only if he’s got those yellow sunglasses, without those he’s all business). Like, the dude had been back on TV, what, two months? On his fourth gimmick in the company after being a Headshrinker, a human PSA dressed like a bag of Skittles and, somehow, an Arabian mute wearing a jockstrap? And he’s paired up with two guys in Too Cool who weren’t really that over yet themselves and, if I remember correctly, were still heels at the previous PPV? What actually happens in December 1999/January 2000 for those three to get THAT over in MSG at the Rumble? Two weeks ago I watched Armageddon 99 for the first time since it aired. Watching that PPV made me wonder the exact same thing. I couldn't really tell if Too Cool were heels or faces because they were thrown in a tag team battle royal with around 20 other guys and were certainly not treated as favorites. Rikishi was in the 2nd or 3rd match, which was total filler and seemed like a completely random team with Viscera, against opponents I can't remember without Googling. Although you could tell they were reluctant partners and Rikishi was clearly leaning toward being a Face and Vis was clearly a heel. Seeing all of this made me wonder how we went from all of this underwhelming bs to the 3 of them dancing together in MSG in the middle of the RR just a few weeks later! Thanks to msc for filling in the blanks for us.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 12, 2023 4:29:29 GMT -5
Bus home thought: Rikishi getting as over as he did in 2000 is why the dancing big man became such a recurring trope for the WWF/WWE in the many years since (and even then, it’s only if he’s got those yellow sunglasses, without those he’s all business). Like, the dude had been back on TV, what, two months? On his fourth gimmick in the company after being a Headshrinker, a human PSA dressed like a bag of Skittles and, somehow, an Arabian mute wearing a jockstrap? And he’s paired up with two guys in Too Cool who weren’t really that over yet themselves and, if I remember correctly, were still heels at the previous PPV? What actually happens in December 1999/January 2000 for those three to get THAT over in MSG at the Rumble? Two weeks ago I watched Armageddon 99 for the first time since it aired. Watching that PPV made me wonder the exact same thing. I couldn't really tell if Too Cool were heels or faces because they were thrown in a tag team battle royal with around 20 other guys and were certainly not treated as favorites. Rikishi was in the 2nd or 3rd match, which was total filler and seemed like a completely random team with Viscera, against opponents I can't remember without Googling. Although you could tell they were reluctant partners and Rikishi was clearly leaning toward being a Face and Vis was clearly a heel. Seeing all of this made me wonder how we went from all of this underwhelming bs to the 3 of them dancing together in MSG in the middle of the RR just a few weeks later! Thanks to msc for filling in the blanks for us. For what it was worth, Rikishi and Viscera lost to the Holly Cousins at Armageddon 1999.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 12, 2023 4:44:48 GMT -5
I just had a conversation yesterday about how stacked the 92 RR is.
For me personally though the 2007 RR is probably my favorite ever. Idk if the entire 30 man lineup would qualify for this thread, but I think it's the only time that I was a huge fan of the final 2 and would have been totally fine with either guy winning. Also seeing ECW originals Sabu and Sandman in their lone RR appearance was very cool to an original die hard ECW fan like me. Great show top to bottom (minus Lashley vs Test) that nobody ever talks about.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Jan 12, 2023 4:47:51 GMT -5
Two weeks ago I watched Armageddon 99 for the first time since it aired. Watching that PPV made me wonder the exact same thing. I couldn't really tell if Too Cool were heels or faces because they were thrown in a tag team battle royal with around 20 other guys and were certainly not treated as favorites. Rikishi was in the 2nd or 3rd match, which was total filler and seemed like a completely random team with Viscera, against opponents I can't remember without Googling. Although you could tell they were reluctant partners and Rikishi was clearly leaning toward being a Face and Vis was clearly a heel. Seeing all of this made me wonder how we went from all of this underwhelming bs to the 3 of them dancing together in MSG in the middle of the RR just a few weeks later! Thanks to msc for filling in the blanks for us. For what it was worth, Rikishi and Viscera lost to the Holly Cousins at Armageddon 1999. To add, they were already teaming BEFORE Armageddon 1999 but that card was very weird. Vince/HHH, Bossman/BigShow, Jericho/Chyna, Kane/X-Pac, Rock and Foley vs DX in general and of all things, Kurt Angle and Steve Blackman were TV storylines. (Angle and Blackman had a very brief odd couple tag team which lasted a week, then split up for a PPV match.) Oh, and there was the bikini challenge made by BB. The battle royal, Viscera match, and the actual European title match weren't promoted much on TV. I knew the Battle Royal was coming, via WWF dot com, but the European title triple threat was a big surprise. And actually, the best match on the card iirc. Though this was common at the time. Survivor Series that year promoted Austin/Rock/HHH (which never happened), Bossman's team vs BigShow's team, Bulldog and the Posse teaming up, Kurt Angle debuting, Kane/X-Pac, and the survivor matches sort of just showed up on the night. They were probably mentioned on WWF dot com too, but I never had access to it that month. Sometimes you got a bonus title triple threat, sometimes you got Mideon vs The Godfather.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 12, 2023 4:48:42 GMT -5
Two weeks ago I watched Armageddon 99 for the first time since it aired. Watching that PPV made me wonder the exact same thing. I couldn't really tell if Too Cool were heels or faces because they were thrown in a tag team battle royal with around 20 other guys and were certainly not treated as favorites. Rikishi was in the 2nd or 3rd match, which was total filler and seemed like a completely random team with Viscera, against opponents I can't remember without Googling. Although you could tell they were reluctant partners and Rikishi was clearly leaning toward being a Face and Vis was clearly a heel. Seeing all of this made me wonder how we went from all of this underwhelming bs to the 3 of them dancing together in MSG in the middle of the RR just a few weeks later! Thanks to msc for filling in the blanks for us. For what it was worth, Rikishi and Viscera lost to the Holly Cousins at Armageddon 1999. Ahh yes. That was it. The "Super Heavyweights" vs some actual super heavyweights lol.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Jan 12, 2023 5:00:03 GMT -5
I remember shortly before the Rumble, Crash had an open challenge answered by Viscera, and they had a David/Goliath match so successful the crowd legit believed Crash was going to win... before he got crushed.
I think that was the moment they decided they wanted to give him a run, he got a decent spot in the Rumble, and was the Hardcore Houdini a few weeks later.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 12, 2023 12:38:43 GMT -5
For what it was worth, Rikishi and Viscera lost to the Holly Cousins at Armageddon 1999. To add, they were already teaming BEFORE Armageddon 1999 but that card was very weird. Vince/HHH, Bossman/BigShow, Jericho/Chyna, Kane/X-Pac, Rock and Foley vs DX in general and of all things, Kurt Angle and Steve Blackman were TV storylines. (Angle and Blackman had a very brief odd couple tag team which lasted a week, then split up for a PPV match.) Oh, and there was the bikini challenge made by BB. The battle royal, Viscera match, and the actual European title match weren't promoted much on TV. I knew the Battle Royal was coming, via WWF dot com, but the European title triple threat was a big surprise. And actually, the best match on the card iirc. Though this was common at the time. Survivor Series that year promoted Austin/Rock/HHH (which never happened), Bossman's team vs BigShow's team, Bulldog and the Posse teaming up, Kurt Angle debuting, Kane/X-Pac, and the survivor matches sort of just showed up on the night. They were probably mentioned on WWF dot com too, but I never had access to it that month. Sometimes you got a bonus title triple threat, sometimes you got Mideon vs The Godfather. Those 1999 PPV's were always a mixed bag. It was clear Russo had a strong influence on everything at the time. I haven't watched Survivor Series 99 in many years, but from what I remember it still felt like they were shaking off some of the Russo influence. As you said, unannounced teams that had seemingly been drawn out of a hat 5 minutes before the show started with absolutely no promotion. Armageddon 99 felt sort of different. There was still the McMahon family BS in the main event which was a trope they leaned on for decades unfortunately. As well as I think the only time there was intentional nudity on a WWF PPV. But the Kane/X-Pac match was good, and I usually hate WWF/E style cage matches. Chyna vs Jericho was good. Angle had just arrived. WWF was clearly about to focus more on in ring product than the Russo nonsense they'd been focused on for the previous couple of years. Even more so with the Radicalz arriving just a few weeks later.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 12, 2023 18:02:43 GMT -5
I just watched the 98 Rumble and it's loaded with stars. From guys who already had Hall of Fame resumes by that point like Honky Tonk Man and Terry Funk, to the three appearances of Foley, to future Hall of Fame guys like Austin, Rock, Bradshaw and Mark Henry. Simmons, Shamrock, Dustin, Vader. A ton of memorable Attitude Era mid carders. Probably the only person I saw and thought to myself, what the hell is he doing there was Tom Brandi. But he was gone in about 5 seconds thanks to Funk and Foley. As JR notes on commentary, 17 guys make their RR debut in that match, so it was very focused on new talent and characters. This was the first WWF PPV I ever attended and had an absolute blast watching it back for the first time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 18:48:18 GMT -5
2012 was a filler disaster with a semi-swerve ending in Sheamus winning instead of Jericho. I was there. It was not only my first Rumble live, but my first ppv. I drove like three hours each way. So disappointing.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 12, 2023 19:47:20 GMT -5
1997 was terrible unless you cared for Mexican talent Couldn't disagree more. There's a spot in there where Terry Funk, Mick Foley, Bret Hart and Steve Austin are all in the ring at the same time. As far as I know it's the only time my 4 favorite wrestlers of all time shared the ring together. Man, now thinking about it. Imagine in the summer of 1998, a newly turned face Bret Hart teamed with Steve Austin against Funk and Foley for the WWF Tag Titles? Sad........
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Post by Hypnosis on Jan 12, 2023 19:54:11 GMT -5
Couldn't disagree more. There's a spot in there where Terry Funk, Mick Foley, Bret Hart and Steve Austin are all in the ring at the same time. As far as I know it's the only time my 4 favorite wrestlers of all time shared the ring together. Man, now thinking about it. Imagine in the summer of 1998, a newly turned face Bret Hart teamed with Steve Austin against Funk and Foley for the WWF Tag Titles? Sad........ I can't imagine a world without the El Dandy promo, though maybe the concussion could have been avoided.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jan 13, 2023 1:44:46 GMT -5
Couldn't disagree more. There's a spot in there where Terry Funk, Mick Foley, Bret Hart and Steve Austin are all in the ring at the same time. As far as I know it's the only time my 4 favorite wrestlers of all time shared the ring together. Man, now thinking about it. Imagine in the summer of 1998, a newly turned face Bret Hart teamed with Steve Austin against Funk and Foley for the WWF Tag Titles? Sad........ Sad indeed. This is something I never knew I wanted till now. 😢
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Jan 13, 2023 4:31:30 GMT -5
I had a bet on Sheamus winning in 2012. I was seemingly the only person in wrestling happy with the result.
(Also, after 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, the 2012 Rumble winner NEEDED to win the title at Mania.)
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jan 13, 2023 7:33:23 GMT -5
The 2000 Royal Rumble was always interesting to me in this regard. It didn't really lack star power, but most of those "stars" were those popular Attitude Era mid-carders that developed cult followings through the years but weren't really headline acts. Out of all the guys in it the only ones you could really see winning were Rock, Big Show, Kane and maybe, if you're being really generous, Rikishi. WWF we're in a weird position in early 2000. Undertaker and Austin were on the shelf so that left a main event consisting of Triple H, The Rock, Mick Foley, Big Show and Kane. And Foley and Triple H were booked in the WWF title match. It was still a few weeks before The Radicalz jumped ship and have them a much needed injection of talent. In retrospect they could have had Kurt Angle and Tazz pull double duty, Chris Jericho did, but realistically neither of them were winning either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2023 8:14:06 GMT -5
That Rumble that had the Luchadors nobody knew.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jan 13, 2023 16:14:32 GMT -5
The 2000 Royal Rumble was always interesting to me in this regard. It didn't really lack star power, but most of those "stars" were those popular Attitude Era mid-carders that developed cult followings through the years but weren't really headline acts. Out of all the guys in it the only ones you could really see winning were Rock, Big Show, Kane and maybe, if you're being really generous, Rikishi. WWF we're in a weird position in early 2000. Undertaker and Austin were on the shelf so that left a main event consisting of Triple H, The Rock, Mick Foley, Big Show and Kane. And Foley and Triple H were booked in the WWF title match. It was still a few weeks before The Radicalz jumped ship and have them a much needed injection of talent. In retrospect they could have had Kurt Angle and Tazz pull double duty, Chris Jericho did, but realistically neither of them were winning either. Kurt Angle could not do double duty that night, at least with how the Angle vs. Tazz match went down with them establishing the Tazzmission as a questionably legal choke. You can't have him being stretchered off with an oxygen mask on his face, and then come out a couple hours later wrestling in the Rumble.
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Jan 13, 2023 17:11:56 GMT -5
WWF we're in a weird position in early 2000. Undertaker and Austin were on the shelf so that left a main event consisting of Triple H, The Rock, Mick Foley, Big Show and Kane. And Foley and Triple H were booked in the WWF title match. It was still a few weeks before The Radicalz jumped ship and have them a much needed injection of talent. In retrospect they could have had Kurt Angle and Tazz pull double duty, Chris Jericho did, but realistically neither of them were winning either. Kurt Angle could not do double duty that night, at least with how the Angle vs. Tazz match went down with them establishing the Tazzmission as a questionably legal choke. You can't have him being stretchered off with an oxygen mask on his face, and then come out a couple hours later wrestling in the Rumble. You can if he looks loopy and gets tossed out immediately. It protects Angle, puts over Taz even more, and adds fuel to the fued because Taz's illegal choke not only broke Angle's streak it also cost him a chance at the title
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