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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 20, 2023 19:42:21 GMT -5
It was critically panned at the time, too. But people were so desperate for anything new Star Trek that it was a massive financial success in spite of that. But yeah, I don't think it's any coincidence that Gene Roddenberry being cut out of the creative process entirely after constantly running interference with TMP led to significantly better movies after. For that matter TNG also got vastly better the less he had to do with it. It's one of the reasons why complaints about modern Trek shows "betraying Gene's vision" ring hollow. TV Trek hasn't been anything close to his vision since the Bush Sr. administration, and the movies disregarded every input he had from Wrath of Khan onwards. There's a lot you can be critical of modern Trek for, but not adhering to the principles Gene Roddenberry put in place is not one of them. TNG's middle seasons effectively killed them, and Deep Space Nine thoroughly violated the corpse.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Jan 20, 2023 20:00:34 GMT -5
For that matter TNG also got vastly better the less he had to do with it. It's one of the reasons why complaints about modern Trek shows "betraying Gene's vision" ring hollow. TV Trek hasn't been anything close to his vision since the Bush Sr. administration, and the movies disregarded every input he had from Wrath of Khan onwards. There's a lot you can be critical of modern Trek for, but not adhering to the principles Gene Roddenberry put in place is not one of them. TNG's middle seasons effectively killed them, and Deep Space Nine thoroughly violated the corpse. And Gene's vision was something that also shifted significantly over the decades. The no conflict rule, constant gushing about humanity evolving, and various other elements of the Roddenberry box were not really present in TOS. And while he did have a propensity for rewrites that annoyed pretty much everybody in those days, even his changes to scripts were rarely to shift them in to the ultra-idealized future early TNG was. To put things into perspective, one of the most unaltered stories in TOS's production history is the Omega Glory, a concept that originated with Gene and one that pretty much no one else on staff was enthused about (including Gene Coon when it was initially pitched). Nonetheless he pushed for it and was convinced it could even get an Emmy nod. The episode in question (beyond frankly silly central plot) is so clumsily and shamelessly pro America (bordering on Jingoistic) that it greatly contrasts with the rest of the series. Now realize that the same Roddenberry had characters openly mocking the hyper nationalist tendencies of the 20th century on TNG and one realizes just how much his central vision had changed in 20 years.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 20, 2023 20:04:13 GMT -5
For that matter TNG also got vastly better the less he had to do with it. It's one of the reasons why complaints about modern Trek shows "betraying Gene's vision" ring hollow. TV Trek hasn't been anything close to his vision since the Bush Sr. administration, and the movies disregarded every input he had from Wrath of Khan onwards. There's a lot you can be critical of modern Trek for, but not adhering to the principles Gene Roddenberry put in place is not one of them. TNG's middle seasons effectively killed them, and Deep Space Nine thoroughly violated the corpse. Genes vision really only came about after Star Trek had been cancelled. Thats when all the fans started filling his head with how enlightened and utopian his vision of the future was. When Star Trek was really just conceived as a western in the future. Thats also when his drug use started getting out of hand. Films like Wrath of Khan and stories like DS9s war arc were more in line with the original Star Trek, IMO than Genes later works like STTMP and early TNG.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 20, 2023 20:16:08 GMT -5
The Omega Glory was hilarious not just in its very goofy concept, but for Shatner's overacting while recalling the United States Constitution's Preamble. "WE. THE. PEOPLE!"
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