Dropped Subplots in Games

[IgnahtaSempria]

Since the Suikoden 1 & 2 remaster is supposed to be coming out this year, it got me thinking about the games, and more specifically, the Pesmerga subplot.

For anyone who didn't play Suikoden, Pesmerga is a knight in black armour you have the option to recruit. He tells you that he's looking for someone, and decides to go with you in the meantime. You never encounter the person he's looking for.

In Suikoden 2, two in-game years later, you meet and recruit him again. And this time, you actually meet the guy he's looking for: a man working for your enemies named Yuber. However, you never actually get to confront Yuber head-to-head, only in one tactical battle.

Cut to Suikoden 3, 15 in-game years later, and Yuber is there. In fact, he's the right hand man of one of the main antagonists. And Pesmerga... is nowhere to be found. Of all the characters to make a return in 3, Pesmerga isn't included. You never get your climactic showdown, you never find out what Yuber actually did to earn Pesmerga's ire, Pesmerga isn't so much as mentioned. A minor subplot across two games is just dropped without a word in the third.


What other subplots from games can you think of that were just dropped and never acknowledged in the series again?

[chrom]

Freya in FF9 had a storyline where she was looking for her former mentor who had left to test himself against all foes. She finds him in Cleyra but he has lost his memory and then vanishes upon killing some enemies.

And that's basically the last thing of note for Freya or her character the rest of the game as she's basically wallpaper from there on.

[Red Mage Riot]

The dark matter plot thread from Mass Effect 2, which basically disappears in Mass Effect 3.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

The dark energy subplot in Mass Effect 2.

In the years following the Battle of the Citadel, a further interest in dark energy itself has begun to emerge. Quarian studies upon the planet Haestrom reveal that its sun, Dholen, is aging prematurely as a result of the influence of dark energy. In addition, Gianna Parasini of Noveria Internal Affairs mentions that her superiors are worried about the potential issues of their clients' increased dark energy interests.

The original plan for Mass Effect 3 was to reveal that the use of mass relays caused a build up of dark energy that if left unchecked would result in the destruction of all the stars in the galaxy, and that the Reapers existed as a bleed valve – culling every mass relay-using civilisation to allow the dark energy to dissipate.

[pinja]

Jan 20, 2023 14:00:12 GMT -5 IgnahtaSempria said:

Since the Suikoden 1 & 2 remaster is supposed to be coming out this year, it got me thinking about the games, and more specifically, the Pesmerga subplot.

For anyone who didn't play Suikoden, Pesmerga is a knight in black armour you have the option to recruit. He tells you that he's looking for someone, and decides to go with you in the meantime. You never encounter the person he's looking for.

In Suikoden 2, two in-game years later, you meet and recruit him again. And this time, you actually meet the guy he's looking for: a man working for your enemies named Yuber. However, you never actually get to confront Yuber head-to-head, only in one tactical battle.

Cut to Suikoden 3, 15 in-game years later, and Yuber is there. In fact, he's the right hand man of one of the main antagonists. And Pesmerga... is nowhere to be found. Of all the characters to make a return in 3, Pesmerga isn't included. You never get your climactic showdown, you never find out what Yuber actually did to earn Pesmerga's ire, Pesmerga isn't so much as mentioned. A minor subplot across two games is just dropped without a word in the third.


What other subplots from games can you think of that were just dropped and never acknowledged in the series again?

The Yuber and Pesmerga subplot is what I thought about when reading the title. A little correction: Yuber is very much present in the first Suikoden. He is with Windy along with Neclord. You meet Yuber when the Star Dragon Sword sends you the past Village of the Rune. You later meet him again before the final battle, when Leknaat uses her part of the Gate Rune to get rid of his summons.

[Johnny B. Decent]

I have a feeling that subplot in Dragon Age Inquisition about the mysterious people from across the seas will be dropped in Dreadwolf.

[Cyno]

I had a feeling they were saving Yuber and Pesmerga's plot continuation for a game set after Suiko 3 and that never materialized, since 4 was a prequel to the entire series set a good chunk of time before the first three games. And 5 also took place before the original three games.

There was also some weird internal politics at Konami with Suiko 4. IIRC they weren't even using the "Book of Suikoden" that was the guiding internal series bible for that game and it was an entirely different dev team who worked on that game compared to 1-3 and 5. It was to the point where a lot of fans actually thought of the Suiko 4/Tactics duology as non-canon.

Another amusing thing with Suikoden is that Harmonia has its finger in events throughout the entire series and we never have even been in Harmonia proper. Just the outskirts of the empire and occupied areas.

[Ganon83]

Arkham City is a great game but they dropped the Joker hospital blood subplot very quickly. Then Arkham Knight had to address it fairly sloppily.

[Red Mage Riot]

Jan 20, 2023 18:10:32 GMT -5 Ganon83 said:

Arkham City is a great game but they dropped the Joker hospital blood subplot very quickly. Then Arkham Knight had to address it fairly sloppily.

A lot of the interesting shit they set up in City got mangled in Knight, sadly. Mostly Hush and Azreal.

[Lizuka #BLM]

It kind of feels like there was supposed to be something to come of Schala being taken by Lavos in Chrono Trigger, but instead it just wound up having to wait to be incredibly awkwardly followed up on in Chrono Cross. Which feels like it was made by people who hate the original game with some of the choices made in it so no idea what that's about.

[dav]

Grabbing the green goo stuff for Truth in GTA: San Andreas and then he buggers off with it and it's not brought up again.

[Rumble McSkirmish]

Jan 20, 2023 19:30:08 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

It kind of feels like there was supposed to be something to come of Schala being taken by Lavos in Chrono Trigger, but instead it just wound up having to wait to be incredibly awkwardly followed up on in Chrono Cross. Which feels like it was made by people who hate the original game with some of the choices made in it so no idea what that's about.

Well that would be a fine assumption but Masato Kato was both the lead writer on Trigger and Cross and he admitted in interviews that he was going through sort of a mid life crisis and that all of the crappy stuff that happened to everyone in Chrono Cross was part of that.

[A Platypus Rave]

Jan 20, 2023 14:17:41 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

The dark energy subplot in Mass Effect 2.

In the years following the Battle of the Citadel, a further interest in dark energy itself has begun to emerge. Quarian studies upon the planet Haestrom reveal that its sun, Dholen, is aging prematurely as a result of the influence of dark energy. In addition, Gianna Parasini of Noveria Internal Affairs mentions that her superiors are worried about the potential issues of their clients' increased dark energy interests.

The original plan for Mass Effect 3 was to reveal that the use of mass relays caused a build up of dark energy that if left unchecked would result in the destruction of all the stars in the galaxy, and that the Reapers existed as a bleed valve – culling every mass relay-using civilisation to allow the dark energy to dissipate.

the Rachni subplot kinda doesn't go anywhere... substantially either from what I remember.

There's a few of the things set up in Mass Effect 1 didn't really go anywhere.


Some of the stuff in Dragon Age does this too... Bioware are kinda the kings of this >_>

[BlackoutCreature]

Jan 20, 2023 18:15:37 GMT -5 Red Mage Riot said:

Jan 20, 2023 18:10:32 GMT -5 Ganon83 said:

Arkham City is a great game but they dropped the Joker hospital blood subplot very quickly. Then Arkham Knight had to address it fairly sloppily.

A lot of the interesting shit they set up in City got mangled in Knight, sadly. Mostly Hush and Azreal.

Harley being pregnant with the Joker's kid got nerfed pretty quickly as well.

[Fundertaker]

Jan 20, 2023 16:59:58 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I had a feeling they were saving Yuber and Pesmerga's plot continuation for a game set after Suiko 3 and that never materialized, since 4 was a prequel to the entire series set a good chunk of time before the first three games. And 5 also took place before the original three games.

There was also some weird internal politics at Konami with Suiko 4. IIRC they weren't even using the "Book of Suikoden" that was the guiding internal series bible for that game and it was an entirely different dev team who worked on that game compared to 1-3 and 5. It was to the point where a lot of fans actually thought of the Suiko 4/Tactics duology as non-canon.

Another amusing thing with Suikoden is that Harmonia has its finger in events throughout the entire series and we never have even been in Harmonia proper. Just the outskirts of the empire and occupied areas.

I'm quoting this one, but this is for the whole Pesmerga/Yuber subplot posts.

1- Yes, in game they never meet, but there's an actual confrontation between the two of them... in the novelization of Suikoden 1 (which was written by Yoshitaka Murayama, the series creator, so kinda "Word Of God"). It was a brief confrontation during the time of the final assault on Gregminster, but Yuber backed out quickly saying that it wasn't "time yet". More on that later.

2- 3's development cycle just happened to coincide with Murayama's 10-year anniversary at Konami, and Murayama had at the time (possibly still has, lets see how far Eiyuden Chronicle lasts) a policy of never working in the same company for more than two years, so the last few months of development were made without him, despite him being the game's director up until that point. So it might be that Pesmerga not being in game and Yuber being just so he could flesh out the character more was a very conscious decision by him.

3- Suikoden 4 was helmed by Junko Kawano, character designer and artist for the original Suikoden, thus one of the original members of the "Rabbit Team" that made the original game (and if you watch any Eiyuden Chronicle related interview/videos, she's the sweet older lady of the bunch). She made the decision to NOT move Suikoden's story forward because that "Murayama's story". As for not using the internal series bible, well, I'm sure she knew enough. Case in point, solving the missing part of Ted's timeline. Suikoden 5's director made a similar decision, this time picking up on Georg, Killey and Lorelai's pasts to connect to the other games.

4- Murayama has stated in interviews in the past that the Pesmerga/Yuber confrontation will "bring about the end of the world", so we kinda know the endgame and we know their confrontation is innevitable. We don't know why it's happening or why these characters are the catalysts or why they are the way they are, but we kinda know the result. I'm sure just the fact of that would dissuade directors from using the characters going forward, as that could mean the end of the franchise.

5- And finally, a bit of kayfabe explanation as to why Pesmerga isn't in S3: In S1 and S2, Pesmerga can be found at or near a place related to Neclord, one of the trio of travelling evildoers between himself, Yuber and Wendy. In S1 you find him in his castle after he was "defeated" and in S2 you find him in the Cave Of The Wind where the Star Dragon Sword (which is one of the very few things that can actually hurt Neclord) was "resting". With Neclord gone after S2, the Star Dragon Sword moving around with Edge, a character that Pesmerga never met AFAWK, Wendy dieing/disappearing... all his leads are really gone or don't offer much, thus he's searching blind of Yuber during the events of S3.

[A Platypus Rave]

Jan 20, 2023 21:35:34 GMT -5 BlackoutCreature said:

Jan 20, 2023 18:15:37 GMT -5 Red Mage Riot said:

A lot of the interesting shit they set up in City got mangled in Knight, sadly. Mostly Hush and Azreal.

Harley being pregnant with the Joker's kid got nerfed pretty quickly as well.

I mean that always seemed to be a false breadcrumb as Harley's Revenge immediately showed a bunch of negative tests

[Cyno]

Jan 20, 2023 21:31:54 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Jan 20, 2023 14:17:41 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

The dark energy subplot in Mass Effect 2.
The original plan for Mass Effect 3 was to reveal that the use of mass relays caused a build up of dark energy that if left unchecked would result in the destruction of all the stars in the galaxy, and that the Reapers existed as a bleed valve – culling every mass relay-using civilisation to allow the dark energy to dissipate.

the Rachni subplot kinda doesn't go anywhere... substantially either from what I remember.

There's a few of the things set up in Mass Effect 1 didn't really go anywhere.


Some of the stuff in Dragon Age does this too... Bioware are kinda the kings of this >_>

There was a side mission in ME3 where the Reapers have a rachni queen producing the rachni equivalent of husks on some krogan world. If you saved the Queen in ME1, it's her and you have the option to recruit her and her rachni to the cause as War Assets. If you killed the queen, it's IIRC an indoctrinated clone. You can recruit her, too, but she will betray you and you lose readiness.

[A Platypus Rave]

Jan 21, 2023 14:05:36 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Jan 20, 2023 21:31:54 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

the Rachni subplot kinda doesn't go anywhere... substantially either from what I remember.

There's a few of the things set up in Mass Effect 1 didn't really go anywhere.


Some of the stuff in Dragon Age does this too... Bioware are kinda the kings of this >_>

There was a side mission in ME3 where the Reapers have a rachni queen producing the rachni equivalent of husks on some krogan world. If you saved the Queen in ME1, it's her and you have the option to recruit her and her rachni to the cause as War Assets. If you killed the queen, it's IIRC an indoctrinated clone. You can recruit her, too, but she will betray you and you lose readiness.

Yeah, my point is more that if you kill her not the main consequences have little actual bearing on the story.

Honestly, I think it'd have been better if they only had the rachni reapers if you didn't kill her as it would be a far more impactful thing in the story.

They kinda did this in Andromeda where you could save I think the Krogan or Turians from a lab whichever you didn't showed up as enemies from then on.

[Cyno]

It was salarians and yeah I always went with the krogan because those kett berserkers were pains in the ass.

[A Platypus Rave]

Jan 21, 2023 14:25:25 GMT -5 Cyno said:

It was salarians and yeah I always went with the krogan because those kett berserkers were pains in the ass.

pretty sure I did the same thing for the same reason >_>