asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,661
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 24, 2023 19:43:44 GMT -5
I kind of lean with Alvarez on this in thinking it’s not that big of a deal. And odds are the mentality was this could get a blowoff some other time, with more time. That being said. I get the frustration from some. I legit was looking forward to it so if ppl are upset, I get it. Someone was gonna get f***ed regardless though. Here’s the issue. This was not just a normal Raw episode. This was the big 30th Anniversary show, and the rating was MUCH higher than normal. Sure you could do this on another episode. But it won’t be a big anniversary show, nor will be seen by nearly as many fans. You ain’t getting well over 2 million people to watch Raw again anytime soon most likely. And on such a big show, booking the women as badly overall as they did is not a good look either.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 24, 2023 20:20:28 GMT -5
All criticism is warranted in terms of how the way they laid out the show f***ed things up to the point where they felt like they had to not do the match. But I feel like using this as a smoking gun saying “WWE HATES WOMEN’S WRESTLING” is both presumptuous and performative. We’re basically saying that in the space of seven days and three TV shows, things have gone from a peaceful normal to systematic decline. I’m not saying that isn’t possible given all the instability in the structure of the company, but I’d feel like there’d be more signs of that in the rest of the show if that were the reason.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Jan 24, 2023 21:58:41 GMT -5
They could have cut the DX segment. We don’t need a DX reunion on every Raw milestone show. Note to DX: get over yourselves
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Post by mistery on Jan 24, 2023 22:22:24 GMT -5
Why they felt the need to cut this which they had advertised a week but kept the pointless two segment unadvertised Bianca/Sonya match in it's entirety is beyond me. Also does anyone find it strange that neither of these two have been announced for the Rumble and we're now past the go home show for Raw? Or for that matter to my knowledge have even cut any promos addressing it. They can announce Zelina Vega and Candice LeRae but can't be bothered to advertise two of the biggest stars in the division? Just shows how awful the build for that match has been. Also makes it extremely obvious that Rhea Ripley is winning as she's really the only possible winner who has been announced and has expressed actually wanting to win the match. Honestly I feel like Rhea winning is a red herring, depending on someone like Asuka. There's also the wildcard of Beth Phoenix as well being in the match simply to screw over Rhea (Rhea can get a title match at Mania through the Chamber if anything). If Asuka is returning at the Rumble, and especially if she has a darker character or a significantly more serious character, I think she has better odds than Rhea of pulling off the win. Especially since no matter who Rhea faces (whether it be Charlotte or Bianca), the other woman she doesn't face will need a challenger. People are speculating Raquel is the other title shot challenger, but I kinda doubt it since she's arguably the least over woman on Smackdown right now, if not the entire main roster.
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Some Guy
Grimlock
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 24, 2023 23:15:19 GMT -5
Feels like it's leading to something bigger and I'm ok with that. Rather they get an extended amount of time to work their magic instead of rushing through a short match that would make everyone mad anyway I understand this in the grand scheme of things, but you know you're going to have more eyes on this show so you need to put forth the extra effort. First Raw in over 4 months without football, an anniversary Raw, etc. So dumping that with the extra eyes is going to just piss people off and not make them want to come back. Hell I haven't really watched a full Raw in maybe 2.5-3 years but I sought out the Bloodline stuff/this match especially and was really damn annoyed about it. You can pull this shit if you have a random episode in the middle of the year sure, but not something like this that was getting push on even the major football games and was the highest rated Raw in years.
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Post by RareTradU on Jan 24, 2023 23:25:27 GMT -5
They could have cut the DX segment. We don’t need a DX reunion on every Raw milestone show. Note to DX: get over yourselves This times a million!! DX was the badass anti-establishment cocky heels. They are all literally the establishment now. The act is dead. The reunions were cute at first but now it's just annoying. I love all the guys in DX but f*** do something different at least. They've been doing this same reunion for ten years now. At this point I'm okay with all of them being in the poker room with the APA and that's it.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,284
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Post by CMWaters on Jan 24, 2023 23:43:45 GMT -5
They could have cut the DX segment. We don’t need a DX reunion on every Raw milestone show. Note to DX: get over yourselves This times a million!! DX was the badass anti-establishment cocky heels. They are all literally the establishment now. The act is dead. The reunions were cute at first but now it's just annoying. I love all the guys in DX but f*** do something different at least. They've been doing this same reunion for ten years now. At this point I'm okay with all of them being in the poker room with the APA and that's it. Well, they TECHNICALLY did something different by not acting super bad-ass by backing down from Imperium's challenge. But yeah, time to do different things or not at all. Especially since there's only so many ways you can joke about Billy's absence.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,153
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jan 25, 2023 0:16:40 GMT -5
And then Bayley on Twitter decides to make fun of people who were excited for this match.
F*** this company. Then. Now. Forever. Together.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,402
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 25, 2023 0:21:11 GMT -5
I'm gonna agree with anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal. Shit gets cut literally every week, it's easy to pick on this because women were involved, but it seems like they got the main shit in, which was the Becky beatdown. It sucks they cut a cage match, it's so, so, so, so, so, so, so easy to pick on it because it was a women's match, they could have cut other things, but it seems like the plan was for a Becky beatdown and it got in, everyone got paid, they got the angle advancement they wanted anyway, so it's not a big deal.
It is just a TV show at the end of the day.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Now featuring half the brain that you do.
Posts: 16,605
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Jan 25, 2023 0:23:48 GMT -5
Shouldn't have booked a cage match to begin with. Neither Becky nor Bayley should be losing a cage match right before the Rumble.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 25, 2023 0:26:42 GMT -5
They have three hours of programming at once, but ever since they lost the overrun, they don't know how to end a show on the button anymore it seems
Quite a few times lately we've seen them run into issues with time, so badly that Barmageddon has cut them off multiple times in its run lmfao
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 25, 2023 0:39:40 GMT -5
Why they felt the need to cut this which they had advertised a week but kept the pointless two segment unadvertised Bianca/Sonya match in it's entirety is beyond me. Also does anyone find it strange that neither of these two have been announced for the Rumble and we're now past the go home show for Raw? Or for that matter to my knowledge have even cut any promos addressing it. They can announce Zelina Vega and Candice LeRae but can't be bothered to advertise two of the biggest stars in the division? Just shows how awful the build for that match has been. Also makes it extremely obvious that Rhea Ripley is winning as she's really the only possible winner who has been announced and has expressed actually wanting to win the match. Honestly I feel like Rhea winning is a red herring, depending on someone like Asuka. There's also the wildcard of Beth Phoenix as well being in the match simply to screw over Rhea (Rhea can get a title match at Mania through the Chamber if anything). If Asuka is returning at the Rumble, and especially if she has a darker character or a significantly more serious character, I think she has better odds than Rhea of pulling off the win. Especially since no matter who Rhea faces (whether it be Charlotte or Bianca), the other woman she doesn't face will need a challenger. People are speculating Raquel is the other title shot challenger, but I kinda doubt it since she's arguably the least over woman on Smackdown right now, if not the entire main roster. Other then her only other possible winners I see are Bianca after losing to Alexa and coming back and winning to face Charlotte or Raquel as a real outside possibility. Becky would be someone who I could see winning but she hasn't talked about the match whatsoever and somehow is still not announced even though we're past the go home show and she's likely going to be the biggest name in the match. Unless she might have to film more stuff for Young Rock that day I can't wrap my head around that one. At the moment it seems like it's Rhea's to lose considering the push she's been getting and she's really the only main eventer that has been announced and cut promos about the match.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 25, 2023 1:05:07 GMT -5
I'm gonna agree with anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal. Shit gets cut literally every week, it's easy to pick on this because women were involved, but it seems like they got the main shit in, which was the Becky beatdown. It sucks they cut a cage match, it's so, so, so, so, so, so, so easy to pick on it because it was a women's match, they could have cut other things, but it seems like the plan was for a Becky beatdown and it got in, everyone got paid, they got the angle advancement they wanted anyway, so it's not a big deal. It is just a TV show at the end of the day. Shitty thing to do to the live crowd though, they advertised a cage match, they had no idea it got cut, and then they had to watch that Really let the air out of the place. Tickets get moved off a cage match, it's a big wrestling match when it happens and a spectacle to be seen And it was a sleight to the women who were already pretty short changed on a show celebrating 30 years of RAW, so badly it got "WWEWomenDeserveBetter" trending on Twitter today, so there was more to it than just the match being cut that upset people In the end will it be a huge deal in the long run, probably not, but as it was happening, and the blowback to how WWE's been booking the women lately to scrap a big time match like that? I think the complaints are justified.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,402
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 25, 2023 1:26:23 GMT -5
I'm gonna agree with anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal. Shit gets cut literally every week, it's easy to pick on this because women were involved, but it seems like they got the main shit in, which was the Becky beatdown. It sucks they cut a cage match, it's so, so, so, so, so, so, so easy to pick on it because it was a women's match, they could have cut other things, but it seems like the plan was for a Becky beatdown and it got in, everyone got paid, they got the angle advancement they wanted anyway, so it's not a big deal. It is just a TV show at the end of the day. Shitty thing to do to the live crowd though, they advertised a cage match, they had no idea it got cut, and then they had to watch that Really let the air out of the place. Tickets get moved off a cage match, it's a big wrestling match when it happens and a spectacle to be seen And it was a sleight to the women who were already pretty short changed on a show celebrating 30 years of RAW, so badly it got "WWEWomenDeserveBetter" trending on Twitter today, so there was more to it than just the match being cut that upset people In the end will it be a huge deal in the long run, probably not, but as it was happening, and the blowback to how WWE's been booking the women lately to scrap a big time match like that? I think the complaints are justified. Raw died in the second half, which ironically (not really) is the maximum amount of time anyone who knows what's up says you can do a wrestling show. Trust me, I'd just rather have Becky and Bayley do anything than trot out Charlotte for any reason, but it seems like the beatdown was the driver, so they got it in. Reminds me of Heenan's story from Mania 5. He was supposed to go wrestle Rooster, right before they went out they were told, "Just need 30 seconds" Rooster says, "But we have ten minutes of spots!!!" Heenan says, "When we get back here, we can do them." They wanted him to work less for the same money, he really was a Red Rooster.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 25, 2023 1:57:06 GMT -5
Shitty thing to do to the live crowd though, they advertised a cage match, they had no idea it got cut, and then they had to watch that Really let the air out of the place. Tickets get moved off a cage match, it's a big wrestling match when it happens and a spectacle to be seen And it was a sleight to the women who were already pretty short changed on a show celebrating 30 years of RAW, so badly it got "WWEWomenDeserveBetter" trending on Twitter today, so there was more to it than just the match being cut that upset people In the end will it be a huge deal in the long run, probably not, but as it was happening, and the blowback to how WWE's been booking the women lately to scrap a big time match like that? I think the complaints are justified. Raw died in the second half, which ironically (not really) is the maximum amount of time anyone who knows what's up says you can do a wrestling show. Trust me, I'd just rather have Becky and Bayley do anything than trot out Charlotte for any reason, but it seems like the beatdown was the driver, so they got it in. Reminds me of Heenan's story from Mania 5. He was supposed to go wrestle Rooster, right before they went out they were told, "Just need 30 seconds" Rooster says, "But we have ten minutes of spots!!!" Heenan says, "When we get back here, we can do them." They wanted him to work less for the same money, he really was a Red Rooster. How dare him take pride in his work. I mean Terry Taylor seems like an ass kissing jerk from what I've heard about him but that's kind of easy for Heenan to say. They were in two different positions. Heenan was just a manager so why would he care? Less work the better. However for Taylor that was the most high profile match of his career at that point and he's winning in a 30 second match after avoiding a buckle charge against a manager who was already coming in beat up in storyline after getting press slammed by Ultimate Warrior a few matches before. That match actually had a lot of build to it and was a reasonably big spot for Taylor so it would be understandable for him to be upset that it was getting changed to a 30 second throwaway.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 25, 2023 2:45:08 GMT -5
I'd say this was a low for WWE, but this is the same company that basically shit in Zelina's lap for 9/11, something so blatantly heinous that Vince of all people felt the need to apologize to her, then give her Queen of the Ring and the tag titles to try to salvage the situation.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,410
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Post by Legion on Jan 25, 2023 6:12:11 GMT -5
All criticism is warranted in terms of how the way they laid out the show f***ed things up to the point where they felt like they had to not do the match. But I feel like using this as a smoking gun saying “WWE HATES WOMEN’S WRESTLING” is both presumptuous and performative. We’re basically saying that in the space of seven days and three TV shows, things have gone from a peaceful normal to systematic decline. I’m not saying that isn’t possible given all the instability in the structure of the company, but I’d feel like there’d be more signs of that in the rest of the show if that were the reason. Yeah, kinda feels like this. Vince is back, so we need to find things to hate on WWE for, even if he isnt actually back booking yet. Get the foundations in, so when he does get back to booking, the hate's already rolling. I'm not saying there isn't a point to the criticism of the way this was booked, but the 0-100 sky is falling nay saying doom casting is very much about a whole other issue hiding behind this one, IMO of course.
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Post by mistery on Jan 25, 2023 7:56:23 GMT -5
I think an actual legitimate issue is also that WWE is absolutely awful at building up new women as well. There is an absolutely massive credibility gap between the top stars (like Becky, Rhea, Bianca, Ronda, and Charlotte) and the rest of the women and it shows with how the audience is cold towards them. I also feel like people are fully expecting Becky to just completely roll Damage CTRL at some point, which hurts them even further.
In the case of the cage match being cancelled/cut, its just a case of WWE showing it really doesn't care about you if you aren't a tippy top star or legend. They gave Charlotte a huge segment with her basically burying the rest of the women, and even Bianca had to basically fangirl over her. Why? Because WWE has this idea that Charlotte is some megastar when in reality she is the least popular of the 4HW and seems to have a serious chip on her shoulder. But god forbid they focus on a feud/match people actually want to see.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,661
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 25, 2023 8:20:01 GMT -5
^This. I mean their SD Women’s Title feud has a challenger who has not won a match on TV in over two years, and who already lost to Charlotte quick.
Before that it was Shotzi, who when she became #1 contender had only won ONE match on TV since JULY (and that was not even on SD, it was in NXT). And they never tried to present her as a viable threat to Ronda.
Emma, Xia Li, Tegan, etc all have ZERO momentum or direction right now and even Liv and Raquel feel listless.
Bianca is taking out multiple women on her own with ease over in Raw. And while they are trying with Becky vs. Damage CTRL (Becky has gotten shown up by them repeatedly recently), I think that it might be a case of “too little too late” with this faction and all it does is drag Becky down as well.
WWE have this issue of making their roster SO DAMN top heavy, and if makes it hard to do many meaningful feuds. Even more so with the women/
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Post by BlahBlah on Jan 25, 2023 12:30:13 GMT -5
They could have cut the DX segment. We don’t need a DX reunion on every Raw milestone show. Note to DX: get over yourselves This times a million!! DX was the badass anti-establishment cocky heels. They are all literally the establishment now. The act is dead. The reunions were cute at first but now it's just annoying. I love all the guys in DX but f*** do something different at least. They've been doing this same reunion for ten years now. At this point I'm okay with all of them being in the poker room with the APA and that's it. They're still enormously over and are being used correctly..... Imperium benefits by being in the ring with them and having DX back down. It was well done.
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