Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Jan 25, 2023 12:36:44 GMT -5
Really weird to not have Damage CTRL and Becky announced for the Rumble this year since Bayley already missed the previous one due to injury, and the match could use more star power besides just Ripley and Liv Morgan.
As for the Cage match, does that just get rescheduled to the Raw after the Rumble?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 12:57:46 GMT -5
Really weird to not have Damage CTRL and Becky announced for the Rumble this year since Bayley already missed the previous one due to injury, and the match could use more star power besides just Ripley and Liv Morgan. As for the Cage match, does that just get rescheduled to the Raw after the Rumble? I can see HHH upping the ante and making it the main event like Becky , Candice , Mia Vs Dmg Cntrl in a cage. And if it does happen then expect all to be forgiven ...because wrestling. And yea it is extremely weird that they have announced so little entries for the women especially the obvious bigger names.
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theironyuppie
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Post by theironyuppie on Jan 25, 2023 13:07:32 GMT -5
I think an actual legitimate issue is also that WWE is absolutely awful at building up new women as well. There is an absolutely massive credibility gap between the top stars (like Becky, Rhea, Bianca, Ronda, and Charlotte) and the rest of the women and it shows with how the audience is cold towards them. I also feel like people are fully expecting Becky to just completely roll Damage CTRL at some point, which hurts them even further. In the case of the cage match being cancelled/cut, its just a case of WWE showing it really doesn't care about you if you aren't a tippy top star or legend. They gave Charlotte a huge segment with her basically burying the rest of the women, and even Bianca had to basically fangirl over her. Why? Because WWE has this idea that Charlotte is some megastar when in reality she is the least popular of the 4HW and seems to have a serious chip on her shoulder. But god forbid they focus on a feud/match people actually want to see.
Rhea's the obvious example of someone who's been built up considerably this last year (last January she was feuding with Nikki A.S.H), but it's also been unusual (and perhaps harder to replicate) because a lot of her work has been outside the ring.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 13:14:16 GMT -5
I think an actual legitimate issue is also that WWE is absolutely awful at building up new women as well. There is an absolutely massive credibility gap between the top stars (like Becky, Rhea, Bianca, Ronda, and Charlotte) and the rest of the women and it shows with how the audience is cold towards them. I also feel like people are fully expecting Becky to just completely roll Damage CTRL at some point, which hurts them even further. In the case of the cage match being cancelled/cut, its just a case of WWE showing it really doesn't care about you if you aren't a tippy top star or legend. They gave Charlotte a huge segment with her basically burying the rest of the women, and even Bianca had to basically fangirl over her. Why? Because WWE has this idea that Charlotte is some megastar when in reality she is the least popular of the 4HW and seems to have a serious chip on her shoulder. But god forbid they focus on a feud/match people actually want to see. Rhea's the obvious example of someone who's been built up considerably this last year (last January she was feuding with Nikki A.S.H), but it's also been unusual (and perhaps harder to replicate) because a lot of her work has been outside the ring.
Rhea has built a legit case that her best work is outside the division...because IMO when she was on her own in the division she was dull to put it mildly. Which is why I am not sure she is such a lock to win the rumble (she will get a great if not the best showing this year though) as WWE may see it is ...why change a good thing and stick her back in the division when she is better utilized outside of it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 25, 2023 14:05:54 GMT -5
Sounds like multiple things could be true at the same time: it could easily be a bigger match if it's saved for a different stage with better time allotment, but at the same time it's messed up to hype a cage match for your audience, particularly your live paying audience, and then not deliver, and have that feel especially galling against a backdrop where the division involved in the match has had a rough go of things (at least on the Smackdown side, going by how people talk about it).
I agree that it being the women's division, in particular, leads to more strident takes from a lot of people, but that's it's own issue, I suppose.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 25, 2023 14:14:24 GMT -5
Sounds like multiple things could be true at the same time: it could easily be a bigger match if it's saved for a different stage with better time allotment, but at the same time it's messed up to hype a cage match for your audience, particularly your live paying audience, and then not deliver, and have that feel especially galling against a backdrop where the division involved in the match has had a rough go of things (at least on the Smackdown side, going by how people talk about it). I agree that it being the women's division, in particular, leads to more strident takes from a lot of people, but that's it's own issue, I suppose. Yeah it definitely wasn’t a great move since it was announced beforehand. For the live ticket aspect, I think they only sold about 500 or 600 tickets of the 14,000 in the last week (since the cage match was announced).
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Jan 25, 2023 15:11:30 GMT -5
Sounds like multiple things could be true at the same time: it could easily be a bigger match if it's saved for a different stage with better time allotment, but at the same time it's messed up to hype a cage match for your audience, particularly your live paying audience, and then not deliver, and have that feel especially galling against a backdrop where the division involved in the match has had a rough go of things (at least on the Smackdown side, going by how people talk about it). I agree that it being the women's division, in particular, leads to more strident takes from a lot of people, but that's it's own issue, I suppose. Yeah it definitely wasn’t a great move since it was announced beforehand. For the live ticket aspect, I think they only sold about 500 or 600 tickets of the 14,000 in the last week (since the cage match was announced). They could’ve at least used the cage for the live crowd as a post-show dark match thing (as it stood, there wasn’t any dark matches after Raw).
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 25, 2023 15:39:25 GMT -5
Rhea's the obvious example of someone who's been built up considerably this last year (last January she was feuding with Nikki A.S.H), but it's also been unusual (and perhaps harder to replicate) because a lot of her work has been outside the ring.
Rhea has built a legit case that her best work is outside the division...because IMO when she was on her own in the division she was dull to put it mildly. Which is why I am not sure she is such a lock to win the rumble (she will get a great if not the best showing this year though) as WWE may see it is ...why change a good thing and stick her back in the division when she is better utilized outside of it. The issue with the Rumble is, if not Rhea then who wins? There are hardly any women that have been real set up to feel like them winning would make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 15:51:07 GMT -5
Rhea has built a legit case that her best work is outside the division...because IMO when she was on her own in the division she was dull to put it mildly. Which is why I am not sure she is such a lock to win the rumble (she will get a great if not the best showing this year though) as WWE may see it is ...why change a good thing and stick her back in the division when she is better utilized outside of it. The issue with the Rumble is, if not Rhea then who wins? There are hardly any women that have been real set up to feel like them winning would make sense? And that is the problem WWE has inflicted on themselves by making their champions nigh unstoppable at the cost of everyone else in that division and so finding solid credible challengers is almost picking the needle outta the haystack. If I am picking anyone to win it would be a returning Asuka.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 25, 2023 15:53:41 GMT -5
Rhea has built a legit case that her best work is outside the division...because IMO when she was on her own in the division she was dull to put it mildly. Which is why I am not sure she is such a lock to win the rumble (she will get a great if not the best showing this year though) as WWE may see it is ...why change a good thing and stick her back in the division when she is better utilized outside of it. The issue with the Rumble is, if not Rhea then who wins? There are hardly any women that have been real set up to feel like them winning would make sense? You don’t always have to build to a Rumble victory. That’s the beauty of the match.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 25, 2023 15:59:54 GMT -5
The issue with the Rumble is, if not Rhea then who wins? There are hardly any women that have been real set up to feel like them winning would make sense? You don’t always have to build to a Rumble victory. That’s the beauty of the match. You don't but they never do it like that. It's always someone who has a ton of momentum or someone that has been a main eventer for years. When has someone like really come out of nowhere and won? I guess the closet you could say is maybe Orton in 2017. However again even though I don't think he was a huge favorite in that match he had still been a perennial top guy for years.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 25, 2023 16:31:44 GMT -5
You don’t always have to build to a Rumble victory. That’s the beauty of the match. You don't but they never do it like that. It's always someone who has a ton of momentum or someone that has been a main eventer for years. When has someone like really come out of nowhere and won? I guess the closet you could say is maybe Orton in 2017. However again even though I don't think he was a huge favorite in that match he had still been a perennial top guy for years. Said it once, said it a dozen times: it's one of the reasons I just don't really enjoy the Rumble very much.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 25, 2023 16:37:15 GMT -5
You don’t always have to build to a Rumble victory. That’s the beauty of the match. You don't but they never do it like that. It's always someone who has a ton of momentum or someone that has been a main eventer for years. When has someone like really come out of nowhere and won? I guess the closet you could say is maybe Orton in 2017. However again even though I don't think he was a huge favorite in that match he had still been a perennial top guy for years. Bianca in 2021. Drew in 2020. Nakamura in 2018. Not all completely out of nowhere but I don’t remember the build pointing to them. Plus this is the first Triple H booked Rumble build so we don’t know what his preferences are.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Jan 25, 2023 16:41:46 GMT -5
I kind of lean with Alvarez on this in thinking it’s not that big of a deal. And odds are the mentality was this could get a blowoff some other time, with more time. That being said. I get the frustration from some. I legit was looking forward to it so if ppl are upset, I get it. Someone was gonna get f***ed regardless though. Somebody gonna get they ass kicked. Somebody gonna get their wig split. Someone was gonna get f***ed regardless though. Someone was gonna get it hardest, oh. Bayley up, Bayley up, beat her, Becks, beat her, Becks. Bayley up, Bayley up, beat her, Becks, beat her, Becks. Bayley up, Bayley up, beat her, Becks, beat her, Becks. Bayley up, Bayley up, beat her, Becks, beat her, Becks.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 25, 2023 16:43:22 GMT -5
You don't but they never do it like that. It's always someone who has a ton of momentum or someone that has been a main eventer for years. When has someone like really come out of nowhere and won? I guess the closet you could say is maybe Orton in 2017. However again even though I don't think he was a huge favorite in that match he had still been a perennial top guy for years. Said it once, said it a dozen times: it's one of the reasons I just don't really enjoy the Rumble very much. I mean I get why they don't as having it for a Wrestlemania title shot makes it more important but I've always felt making it for the February PPV title shot wouldn't be bad idea. Just to make it less predictable. Also it's a match where a main eventer doesn't "look weak" getting bested by a surprise winner who below them in the pecking order. Like Charlotte getting dumped over the top rope by Tegan Nox wouldn't hurt her at all as she wouldn't be actually jobbing to her; she would just be getting dumped over the top rope by her.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 25, 2023 16:46:53 GMT -5
Said it once, said it a dozen times: it's one of the reasons I just don't really enjoy the Rumble very much. I mean I get why they don't as having it for a Wrestlemania title shot makes it more important but I've always felt making it for the February PPV title shot wouldn't be bad idea. Just to make it less predictable. Also it's a match where a main eventer doesn't "look weak" getting bested by a surprise winner who below them in the pecking order. Like Charlotte getting dumped over the top rope by Tegan Nox wouldn't hurt her at all as she wouldn't be actually jobbing to her; she would just be getting dumped over the top rope by her. My thing is that it's a match built on chaos and unpredictability...that's usually pretty predictable, and the idea that WWE would risk a title match at their biggest show of the year on a match where, I dunno, a cameo'ing Bob Holly could win always struck me as insane in kayfabe. I'd be down for it having some other kind of gimmick, like the winner gets to have some kind of wish granted that's not just the Mania title shot, but that's a whole other conversation about how I'd probably kayfabe reorganize tons of things about the booking of both the Rumble and Wrestlemania.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 25, 2023 16:50:21 GMT -5
You don't but they never do it like that. It's always someone who has a ton of momentum or someone that has been a main eventer for years. When has someone like really come out of nowhere and won? I guess the closet you could say is maybe Orton in 2017. However again even though I don't think he was a huge favorite in that match he had still been a perennial top guy for years. Bianca in 2021. Drew in 2020. Nakamura in 2018. Not all completely out of nowhere but I don’t remember the build pointing to them. Plus this is the first Triple H booked Rumble build so we don’t know what his preferences are. I predicted Bianca winning in 2021. It was definitely a slow burn push for her but you could tell they really liked her as she had been around about a year at that point and I think had been pinned only like once and they were often having her do stuff to put over how strong she was. Also that year the only other women who you could winning were Charlotte and Alexa. Charlotte had won the year before and Alexa hadn't really been pushed in the title picture in a while. I don't know if he was my pick to win but I definitely thought Drew was a possibility. They were definitely pushing him hard in the build up as I remember them having him win two on one handicap matches on TV. I can't recall if Roman was announced or had another match and came back but if so I would've guessed it would him, Brock running the table, or Drew winning. Nakamura I guess would kind of fit. He was still a big deal but he was also coming off the Jinder losses which had really hurt his momentum.
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Post by mistery on Jan 25, 2023 17:35:22 GMT -5
Bianca in 2021. Drew in 2020. Nakamura in 2018. Not all completely out of nowhere but I don’t remember the build pointing to them. Plus this is the first Triple H booked Rumble build so we don’t know what his preferences are. I predicted Bianca winning in 2021. It was definitely a slow burn push for her but you could tell they really liked her as she had been around about a year at that point and I think had been pinned only like once and they were often having her do stuff to put over how strong she was. Also that year the only other women who you could winning were Charlotte and Alexa. Charlotte had won the year before and Alexa hadn't really been pushed in the title picture in a while. I don't know if he was my pick to win but I definitely thought Drew was a possibility. They were definitely pushing him hard in the build up as I remember them having him win two on one handicap matches on TV. I can't recall if Roman was announced or had another match and came back but if so I would've guessed it would him, Brock running the table, or Drew winning. Nakamura I guess would kind of fit. He was still a big deal but he was also coming off the Jinder losses which had really hurt his momentum. For what its worth, a former WWE writer came out and said that Bianca wasn't originally supposed to win in 2021. They were slated to have Charlotte win again. But someone managed to convince Vince that having Charlotte win twice in a row would go really poorly, so they went with Bianca instead.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 25, 2023 17:44:36 GMT -5
I predicted Bianca winning in 2021. It was definitely a slow burn push for her but you could tell they really liked her as she had been around about a year at that point and I think had been pinned only like once and they were often having her do stuff to put over how strong she was. Also that year the only other women who you could winning were Charlotte and Alexa. Charlotte had won the year before and Alexa hadn't really been pushed in the title picture in a while. I don't know if he was my pick to win but I definitely thought Drew was a possibility. They were definitely pushing him hard in the build up as I remember them having him win two on one handicap matches on TV. I can't recall if Roman was announced or had another match and came back but if so I would've guessed it would him, Brock running the table, or Drew winning. Nakamura I guess would kind of fit. He was still a big deal but he was also coming off the Jinder losses which had really hurt his momentum. For what its worth, a former WWE writer came out and said that Bianca wasn't originally supposed to win in 2021. They were slated to have Charlotte win again. But someone managed to convince Vince that having Charlotte win twice in a row would go really poorly, so they went with Bianca instead. I saw that too. Apparently it was Ryan Ward who was the head writer of NXT during it's golden era and also Smackdown during it's really good run in late 2016 and into early 2017 after they brought back the roster split. I guess he said something to the effects of "You have Edge winning and you have Charlotte winning. We have to start making new stars". Surprisingly it resonated with Vince and he changed the women's finish to Bianca winning. I guess the plan was have Charlotte win the Rumble and then Lacey beat Asuka for the Raw title at Elimination Chamber and then Charlotte would've challenged Lacey. Don't know what they would've done for Smackdown. Guess it would've still been Bianca against Sasha but they would've just got there some other way. IIRC there wasn't a women's chamber match that year.
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john84
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Post by john84 on Jan 25, 2023 17:46:22 GMT -5
I predicted Bianca winning in 2021. It was definitely a slow burn push for her but you could tell they really liked her as she had been around about a year at that point and I think had been pinned only like once and they were often having her do stuff to put over how strong she was. Also that year the only other women who you could winning were Charlotte and Alexa. Charlotte had won the year before and Alexa hadn't really been pushed in the title picture in a while. I don't know if he was my pick to win but I definitely thought Drew was a possibility. They were definitely pushing him hard in the build up as I remember them having him win two on one handicap matches on TV. I can't recall if Roman was announced or had another match and came back but if so I would've guessed it would him, Brock running the table, or Drew winning. Nakamura I guess would kind of fit. He was still a big deal but he was also coming off the Jinder losses which had really hurt his momentum. For what its worth, a former WWE writer came out and said that Bianca wasn't originally supposed to win in 2021. They were slated to have Charlotte win again. But someone managed to convince Vince that having Charlotte win twice in a row would go really poorly, so they went with Bianca instead. Assuming the writer was telling the truth than whoever persuaded Vince to go with Bianca instead did well.
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