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Post by poodoojenkins on Jan 27, 2023 12:26:28 GMT -5
Storm is good in the ring, but I think maybe it's just time to admit that she's not the star everyone wants her to be. The personality and audience connection needed to be a main event caliber star just aren't there.
And that's fine. The world needs mid-carders. Toni could be the gatekeeping upper mid-carder who flirts with the main event sometimes, and that's a perfectly fine place to be.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,911
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Post by Dub H on Jan 27, 2023 12:30:56 GMT -5
MAYBE
Hear me out
MAYBE
They could have HAYTER FINALLY BREAK OFF AND FEUD AGAINST BRITT. So the fans get to cheer the people they really want to without hurting the other faces she is facing. And now it seems Britt may be turning face? Waste
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 27, 2023 12:36:56 GMT -5
The Britt/Saraya double turn has been hinted at since the buildup to their first match. Like the promos on Saraya's side got more and more selfish sounding and heelish while still ostensibly being a face. Meanwhile the last few promos Britt did had a babyface fire to them. And circumstances sorta force Jamie to turn face because no one is booing her now. The Toni turn comes off the most "out of nowhere" but it's easy enough to turn her resentment of Jamie into a heel motivation when Jamie is fully on the good side of things. Or how she was only considered a "real" women's champion after she lost the belt to Hayter. Maybe that "boo-boo face" people were pointing out was foreshadowing I dunno. And quite frankly people complaining about "outsiders versus originals" being too Vince or TNA just tells me the people haven't watched a whole lot of wrestling. It's a tried and true trope that's worked for decades going back to New Japan and the original run of the NWO. Yeah, and given that there've been matches before where the crowd has clearly been in the corner of a "homegrown" AEW women's wrestler, most notably the Statlander vs. Ruby tournament match, it's something that's pretty straightforward to make a story out of, and as we've said before it's not like it needs to end with "losers leave the promotion" or something when it really boils down to a fight over respect. Side note, but I think it stands out how many people use the whole "boo-boo face" thing and apply it almost exclusively to women's matches, since you rarely see it said about the guys. Makes me wonder if it's some weird "oh, she's not smiling, she must be losing" thing that doesn't get applied to guys since people expect male wrestlers to be scowling or something.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 27, 2023 12:52:10 GMT -5
MAYBE Hear me out MAYBE They could have HAYTER FINALLY BREAK OFF AND FEUD AGAINST BRITT. So the fans get to cheer the people they really want to without hurting the other faces she is facing. And now it seems Britt may be turning face? Waste I wouldn't call that a waste so much as pragmatism. Britt's reactions have swung from cheers to boos depending on the area, but she gets cheered enough in enough places that having someone turn face by turning on her was a risk. Britt and Jamie turning together is a safer bet for shoring up the support Hayter already has.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 27, 2023 12:53:54 GMT -5
Side note, but I think it stands out how many people use the whole "boo-boo face" thing and apply it almost exclusively to women's matches, since rarely see it said about the guys. Makes me wonder if it's some weird "oh, she's not smiling, she must be losing" thing that doesn't get applied to guys since people expect male wrestlers to be scowling or something. Singling this out as a sentiment because I've really started to find the phrase over-used in a...particular way.
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Post by eJm on Jan 27, 2023 12:58:10 GMT -5
Side note, but I think it stands out how many people use the whole "boo-boo face" thing and apply it almost exclusively to women's matches, since rarely see it said about the guys. Makes me wonder if it's some weird "oh, she's not smiling, she must be losing" thing that doesn't get applied to guys since people expect male wrestlers to be scowling or something. Singling this out as a sentiment because I've really started to find the phrase over-used in a...particular way. I will say, as a slight defense, people used it at FTR before the chain match with The Briscoes last month but then I haven’t watched that match (or the series and I should remedy that) so I can’t say either way. Otherwise, yeah, it is overused and it’s grating.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
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Post by Fade on Jan 27, 2023 13:01:31 GMT -5
I’ve noticed both men and women displaying boo boo face lol. It ain’t a gender exclusive thing.
Anyway, that’s pretty spot-on and I applaud them, actually. People have some merit in saying it might be rushed or whatever, but I applaud AEW for taking in crowd reactions, and applying on the fly. Because they haven’t always done that.
Despite girl being an incredibly hard-working champion, reactions were lukewarm. ‘Specially in the shadow of Hayterade. People got their issues with the women..and I don’t think it’s perfect…but I’m digging the division recently. Definitely intrigued.
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dbrussel
Don Corleone
Former WOW employee
Posts: 1,806
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Post by dbrussel on Jan 27, 2023 13:49:22 GMT -5
Correct call by TK. Dont fight the crowds.
I want face Hayter (and tweener Britt) Saraya was also pushing for the turn.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 27, 2023 15:59:36 GMT -5
but they didn't want to put her on the sidelines, because she's so good in the ring Uh, since when does AEW care about throwing good wrestlers onto the sidelines? There's multiple heels who're both excellent in the ring and doing zilch right now.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 27, 2023 15:59:39 GMT -5
It makes sense. If Jamie is going to be the face champion, she needs heels to work against so turning Saraya/Toni works. The turns are logical but I think everything around it kinda sucks
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,330
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 27, 2023 16:19:20 GMT -5
Eh, we talk about how Tony doesn't pivot often enough when things change and people have often grumbled about not turning a face when they're not getting the reactions the company wants. I know no one was going to cheer against Hayter but I give them thumbs up for going with a natural story since the crowd was booing Toni anyways.
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on Jan 27, 2023 17:09:21 GMT -5
I HATE IT!!! *unintelligible crying* {Spoiler}I enjoyed her heel work on Wednesday, even though I still think this turn was rushed and the whole "Outsiders vs. Originals" thing doesn't really work for me as a story right now. They just need to let her be kind of a goofball like she is in real life.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,134
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 27, 2023 18:05:15 GMT -5
I felt bad for Toni during Full Gear, girl's worked her tail off but the crowd was just totally behind Hayter...justified, since Hayter's awesome, but I was like "Shit, what did Toni do to deserve boos?" But if that's what the crowd's doing, you've gotta adjust to it, no point forcing a reaction when it's not there. That said, I do hope in the coming weeks they let Toni speak on that and play up that she felt disrespected by the reaction and blames the "homegrowns" as an extension of blaming the crowd for doing that after all her hard work to keep the division stable after Rosa's injury. It's early enough in the story that I don't see the lack of an overt explanation as a problem yet, but it should be addressed at some point to provide context...and frankly to make it easier to turn Toni back face late on if they so choose, since a sympathetic motivation helps with that. Yes the thing is Toni DOES have valid motivations for going bad and the pieces ARE there for her to be an interesting heel. But they need to actually let her elaborate on that and the promo she cut on Wednesday was, not encouraging in that regard.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,271
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 27, 2023 18:08:08 GMT -5
Toni's heel offense was fantastic this week, her ass attacks look like they're going to kill someone anyway, I think her as a heel is perfectly fine, it's as other said, she didn't have a huge face character to backburner right now to begin with. She can always flip back later, see how it goes.
I also didn't mind the Ruby finish at all, Toni got all high and mighty about the homegrowns and Britt getting a one up on her isn't a bad thing, neither is Ruby winning because of it. Britt being face right now isn't a bad thing either, I do think she turns on Hayter, but that's not happening till this feud ends imo. Hayter and Britt being faces for that moment is going to make it more impactful imo.
As for things being "The worst of Vince and TNA Booking all in one?", no, that's a huge hyperbolic reaction to me. The storyline's definitely moved at a weird pace, but not in a way where I'm gonna call it "WrestleCrap", a lot of women are being featured, and we're having high quality matches all over the cards due to it, this is what the women's division needs, and when all is said and done, this is one of the easiest storylines to go, it's been done for decades, and I have confidence in the women to continue it well.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,134
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 27, 2023 18:14:37 GMT -5
If I’m going to crap on WWE for doing the “music distraction” finish, which I do, AEW doesn’t get a pass.
It’s a stupid finish, and it makes zero sense for PROFESSIONALS to fa for it. Stop doing it, I care what company you are.
Also Toni has lost like a bunch of matches lately, so that ain’t helping either.
And people say that storyline has been done a lot. I’d argue that it hasn’t exactly worked a lot of the time either.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 27, 2023 18:21:32 GMT -5
I've never really been bothered by the "music distraction" finish as long as it isn't a cheap roll-up.
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on Jan 27, 2023 18:27:56 GMT -5
I've never really been bothered by the "music distraction" finish as long as it isn't a cheap roll-up. It should've been a Motley Crue song that distracted Toni.
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
Posts: 5,319
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Jan 27, 2023 18:41:00 GMT -5
I'd only crap on the music distraction finish because it came literally moments after the fake injury spot. That's a lot of nonsense to pack into a couple of minutes.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,271
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 27, 2023 18:52:25 GMT -5
If I’m going to crap on WWE for doing the “music distraction” finish, which I do, AEW doesn’t get a pass. It’s a stupid finish, and it makes zero sense for PROFESSIONALS to fa for it. Stop doing it, I care what company you are. Also Toni has lost like a bunch of matches lately, so that ain’t helping either. And people say that storyline has been done a lot. I’d argue that it hasn’t exactly worked a lot of the time either. It's still an easy storyline to do, and it gets a lot of women involved, that's what you want in the division I'd argue getting distracted is pretty normal, you dont expect someone out there, and suddenly they're coming out, maybe to the ring, to get involved, Toni didn't finish Ruby off, Ruby hit Destination Unknown, it's not a big deal, especially since Ruby still hit her finish to win the match, she had to put Storm away "Toni's lost a lot of matches lately" This was her second singles match loss since June, the other was to Hayter on PPV, she's gonna be fine, and a lot of people thought Ruby would lose, and we'd get the "RUBY IS A LOSER!" posts again, so quite the catch 22, I'd rather Toni lose if she had to, Ruby getting more big wins is good, I really don't care how they happened after suffering for months as a fan of her with the 'Ruby never wins" stuff, so that's where I'm at.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 27, 2023 19:06:07 GMT -5
And if they want to suddenly turn her again she can just say that she acted that way and did all those things because she was really tired.
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