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Post by thechase on Mar 5, 2023 14:27:01 GMT -5
I feel like this thread is a trap to get me to watch this movie again. MMPH...MMPH...IT'S A TRAP! OH NO! IT'S BOILING ACID!
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Mar 5, 2023 14:33:56 GMT -5
I'm just kinda sick of the "gritty, realistic" Batman. They can still be dark or moody stories, but I want to see a more fantastic Batman that explores his sci-fi elements. Have him battle foes like meta-humans or vampires or aliens, use concepts like time travel or magic, give him some unusual gadgets. He's been around for more then 80 years, there are way more stories to draw from then just him beating up mobsters. I honestly have an idea for a Batman-alien abduction movie with the Dominators as the villains that I think would be great. I think this is part of why I liked The Batman as much as I did. The lenses he used and the Batmobile that's basically Christine both definitely pulled things in a bit of a more fantastical direction from the Nolan movies. Makes me hope they'll ramp it up in the next one given the moral Bruce took away of needing to lighten the f*** up for both his sake's and the city. You thought The Batman was more fantastic then the Nolan movies? Man, we must have different definitions of fantastic because I thought it was a giant step backwards, with a plot that boiled down to "Batman punches mobsters in a dingy alley". Wake me up when Batman is throwing exploding batarangs at a wizard in space or something. And it's NOT THREE GODDAMN HOURS LONG.
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 5, 2023 15:23:04 GMT -5
I think this is part of why I liked The Batman as much as I did. The lenses he used and the Batmobile that's basically Christine both definitely pulled things in a bit of a more fantastical direction from the Nolan movies. Makes me hope they'll ramp it up in the next one given the moral Bruce took away of needing to lighten the f*** up for both his sake's and the city. You thought The Batman was more fantastic then the Nolan movies? Man, we must have different definitions of fantastic because I thought it was a giant step backwards, with a plot that boiled down to "Batman punches mobsters in a dingy alley". Wake me up when Batman is throwing exploding batarangs at a wizard in space or something. And it's NOT THREE GODDAMN HOURS LONG. Yeah, I did think it was more fantastic. Like, the Tumbler Batmobile is just a military vehicle in black. Like, outside of the ejecting motorcycle in the second movie, there's nothing about it that really screams Batman at all. That's just one thing, but it's an example of how that felt more sterile to me. In any case, Reeves supposedly wants to do Mister Freeze for the second one, so maybe that'll be more to your liking.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Mar 5, 2023 15:26:43 GMT -5
On The Batman I liked it a lot, have seen it twice, but I do think that I'd probably be inclined to rank it more highly if not for the last act of the movie. I'd probably put it over Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises, because Begins on revisiting it a year or two back feels like it spends almost its entire runtime ashamed that it's a superhero movie and being too busy trying to distract you from thinking it's one to actually have a plot, and Rises because it has an absolute ton of plot holes and just kind of dumb narrative decisions, but I hesitate to put it over Dark Knight despite that movie also having its problems because at least it's more cohesive than how the Riddler suddenly seemed to realize he was a way more effective superhero than Batman was and just randomly pivoted to wanting to kill millions of people out of nowhere to remind you he was the bad guy.
Though my favorite live action one period is probably the 89 one. It's just plain fun.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Mar 5, 2023 15:54:36 GMT -5
On The Batman I liked it a lot, have seen it twice, but I do think that I'd probably be inclined to rank it more highly if not for the last act of the movie. I'd probably put it over Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises, because Begins on revisiting it a year or two back feels like it spends almost its entire runtime ashamed that it's a superhero movie and being too busy trying to distract you from thinking it's one to actually have a plot, and Rises because it has an absolute ton of plot holes and just kind of dumb narrative decisions, but I hesitate to put it over Dark Knight despite that movie also having its problems because at least it's more cohesive than how the Riddler suddenly seemed to realize he was a way more effective superhero than Batman was and just randomly pivoted to wanting to kill millions of people out of nowhere to remind you he was the bad guy. Though my favorite live action one period is probably the 89 one. It's just plain fun. It's been awhile since I've seen Begins, but I remember my biggest problem with it being that it doesn't really feel like it starts until the dock scene like 45 minutes in. Everything before that just feels like a slow and padded extended cold open. If I had the ability to re-edit it, I would've opened the movie with the dock fight, then told all the stuff with Falcone and the League of Shadows as flashbacks, with the scenes tightened up as much as possible so they move quicker and are more exciting.
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 5, 2023 16:16:28 GMT -5
On The Batman I liked it a lot, have seen it twice, but I do think that I'd probably be inclined to rank it more highly if not for the last act of the movie. I'd probably put it over Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises, because Begins on revisiting it a year or two back feels like it spends almost its entire runtime ashamed that it's a superhero movie and being too busy trying to distract you from thinking it's one to actually have a plot, and Rises because it has an absolute ton of plot holes and just kind of dumb narrative decisions, but I hesitate to put it over Dark Knight despite that movie also having its problems because at least it's more cohesive than how the Riddler suddenly seemed to realize he was a way more effective superhero than Batman was and just randomly pivoted to wanting to kill millions of people out of nowhere to remind you he was the bad guy. Though my favorite live action one period is probably the 89 one. It's just plain fun. It's been awhile since I've seen Begins, but I remember my biggest problem with it being that it doesn't really feel like it starts until the dock scene like 45 minutes in. Everything before that just feels like a slow and padded extended cold open. If I had the ability to re-edit it, I would've opened the movie with the dock fight, then told all the stuff with Falcone and the League of Shadows as flashbacks, with the scenes tightened up as much as possible so they move quicker and are more exciting. More superhero stuff could stand to be in media res like that. I think that's part of why '89 Batman works as well as it does. It already gives viewers plenty of reason to care about Batman before it delves into what happened to his parents. The replacement of Joe Chill with Jack Napier is maybe not strictly necessary, but was at least kind of making use of the age gap between Keaton and Nicholson, so I'll give it that.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Mar 5, 2023 17:53:04 GMT -5
It's been awhile since I've seen Begins, but I remember my biggest problem with it being that it doesn't really feel like it starts until the dock scene like 45 minutes in. Everything before that just feels like a slow and padded extended cold open. If I had the ability to re-edit it, I would've opened the movie with the dock fight, then told all the stuff with Falcone and the League of Shadows as flashbacks, with the scenes tightened up as much as possible so they move quicker and are more exciting. More superhero stuff could stand to be in media res like that. I think that's part of why '89 Batman works as well as it does. It already gives viewers plenty of reason to care about Batman before it delves into what happened to his parents. The replacement of Joe Chill with Jack Napier is maybe not strictly necessary, but was at least kind of making use of the age gap between Keaton and Nicholson, so I'll give it that. This is a really good point that I never thought of before, how you really don't piece together until the end Bruce Wayne / Batman's whole story. He's as much a mystery to the viewer during the movie as his character is within it.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 5, 2023 20:31:27 GMT -5
My favorite live action Batmovie is still Dark Knight 08 because of how much more “normal” Gotham seems. And while I get people being annoyed with how it was arguably *too* realistic, it feels scarier to me because there’s a sense of Joker being a force like the city hasn’t seen yet, like they’re slowly trying to get past the Ra’s era and here comes this maniac. It’s like “f***, we are gonna die.”
Whereas with The Batman, it’s got that more traditional Gotham atmosphere, but they’ve already dealt with Joker and he’s behind bars but has clearly caused a ton of unmentioned damage, and the reaction to the mayor’s death is like “whelp, it must be Tuesday”. The whole city’s been beaten down in Reeves’ movie, whereas Dark Knight has this unsettling panic around it I enjoy. Some of it is heavily influenced by Heat, but I fricking love me some Heat so I didn’t mind it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2023 9:39:24 GMT -5
I don't know if people have softened their opinion so much as people just don't care enough about a 25 year old Batman movie to complain about it.still.
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 6, 2023 9:44:00 GMT -5
I don't know if people have softened their opinion so much as people just don't care enough about a 25 year old Batman movie to complain about it.still. I think it's some of both, given there are still plenty of people who shit on Phantom Menace, which is only a little bit newer, though a good chunk of people who grew up with the prequels defend those now, so I guess it applies to those, too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2023 9:49:37 GMT -5
I don't know if people have softened their opinion so much as people just don't care enough about a 25 year old Batman movie to complain about it.still. I think it's some of both, given there are still plenty of people who shit on Phantom Menace, which is only a little bit newer, though a good chunk of people who grew up with the prequels defend those now, so I guess it applies to those, too. Did people really "grow up" with the movie Batman and Robin the way they did Star Wars though? Like, most of the kids who grew up on the prequels also grew up on the Dark Knight Trilogy and maybe never even saw the Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher movies. For the record, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just throwing it out there.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Mar 6, 2023 9:54:39 GMT -5
I think it's some of both, given there are still plenty of people who shit on Phantom Menace, which is only a little bit newer, though a good chunk of people who grew up with the prequels defend those now, so I guess it applies to those, too. Did people really "grow up" with the movie Batman and Robin the way they did Star Wars though? Like, most of the kids who grew up on the prequels also grew up on the Dark Knight Trilogy and maybe never even saw the Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher movies. For the record, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just throwing it out there. If you were of the right time and watched the rights thing I guess. I saw Batman & Robin plenty of times as a kid (and other shitty movies; when my dad and step-mom first bought a DVD player they only had three DVDs so I did a lot of watching Wild Wild West), but I've never seen Phantom Menace. ... I think the only Star Wars content I have seen is New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Force Awakens, Last Jedi, and the pilot of The Mandalorian.
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Post by poodoojenkins on Mar 6, 2023 10:03:23 GMT -5
Hot Take incoming...
I would rather watch B&R any day than any one of the Nolan movies.
Why?
Because Christian Bale is the absolute worst Batman that I could possibly conceive, and the movies are dark, brooding nonsense. The fact that these movies set the stage for basically every other comic book movie to turn dark and gritty just makes them even worse in retrospect.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Mar 6, 2023 10:17:21 GMT -5
Hot Take incoming... I would rather watch B&R any day than any one of the Nolan movies. Why? Because Christian Bale is the absolute worst Batman that I could possibly conceive, and the movies are dark, brooding nonsense. The fact that these movies set the stage for basically every other comic book movie to turn dark and gritty just makes them even worse in retrospect. Honestly I hesitate a loooot to call the Nolan movies dark, brooding, and gritty. They certainly have a bit more of a serious, grounded (though still often absolutely absurd) air to them, but they have plenty of levity and they can't go two minutes without a passionate speech about optimism and holding onto hope and the greater nature of humanity. Now, yes, they did totally motivate tons of other movies that completely missed the point and aped their aesthetics but not their actual tone, but I don't really think it's fair to hold Man of Steel against Dark Knight.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Mar 6, 2023 10:33:32 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much that people have "softened" on Batman and Robin as it is that so much of that initial criticism was just raw homophobia that it was bound to taper off eventually. I mean, even without the camp (which, lets be honest, might be the film's saving grace), you'd still have one of the worst cast live action Batmen of all time, a script that is nonsensical at best, terrible line delivery even by 90s standards, and an absolutely garish palette. The only difference is, we can discuss all those real issues without the loudest voices in the room screaming about Bat-nipples and codpieces. I will defend the Bat Credit Card, though, only because I haven't heard a strong rebuttal since Linkara's defense of it:
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Post by poodoojenkins on Mar 6, 2023 10:43:21 GMT -5
Hot Take incoming... I would rather watch B&R any day than any one of the Nolan movies. Why? Because Christian Bale is the absolute worst Batman that I could possibly conceive, and the movies are dark, brooding nonsense. The fact that these movies set the stage for basically every other comic book movie to turn dark and gritty just makes them even worse in retrospect. Honestly I hesitate a loooot to call the Nolan movies dark, brooding, and gritty. They certainly have a bit more of a serious, grounded (though still often absolutely absurd) air to them, but they have plenty of levity and they can't go two minutes without a passionate speech about optimism and holding onto hope and the greater nature of humanity. Now, yes, they did totally motivate tons of other movies that completely missed the point and aped their aesthetics but not their actual tone, but I don't really think it's fair to hold Man of Steel against Dark Knight. If I'm being completely honest about it, Christian Bale is the real problem for me, although I also genuinely don't care for the overall tone of the movies. I like comic books because of the over the top look and feel. A reality-based hero of any kind just kinda doesn't do it for me generally. But seriously...Christian Bale was absolutely god f***ing awful as Batman. Especially that ridiculous voice, and his stupid facial expressions. And then there are other things throughout the 3 films that just...ugh. Like, who looked at Tom Hardy and thought "Yes, he is perfect to play a 6'8", 350 pound character, despite being neither of those things, or even close"? And I'll just say it: Ledger was good, but no way was that an Oscar performance if he had lived. There are other things, but I have rambled enough. Those movies are, in my opinion, beyond overrated and actively damaged comic movies for over a decade now.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Mar 6, 2023 12:28:18 GMT -5
Honestly I hesitate a loooot to call the Nolan movies dark, brooding, and gritty. They certainly have a bit more of a serious, grounded (though still often absolutely absurd) air to them, but they have plenty of levity and they can't go two minutes without a passionate speech about optimism and holding onto hope and the greater nature of humanity. Now, yes, they did totally motivate tons of other movies that completely missed the point and aped their aesthetics but not their actual tone, but I don't really think it's fair to hold Man of Steel against Dark Knight. If I'm being completely honest about it, Christian Bale is the real problem for me, although I also genuinely don't care for the overall tone of the movies. I like comic books because of the over the top look and feel. A reality-based hero of any kind just kinda doesn't do it for me generally. But seriously...Christian Bale was absolutely god f***ing awful as Batman. Especially that ridiculous voice, and his stupid facial expressions. And then there are other things throughout the 3 films that just...ugh. Like, who looked at Tom Hardy and thought "Yes, he is perfect to play a 6'8", 350 pound character, despite being neither of those things, or even close"?And I'll just say it: Ledger was good, but no way was that an Oscar performance if he had lived. There are other things, but I have rambled enough. Those movies are, in my opinion, beyond overrated and actively damaged comic movies for over a decade now. A 6'8", 350 pound, LATIN AMERICAN character at that. Tom Hardy being cast as Bane was certainly a choice. As was his splitting the difference by just doing a Bartley Gorman impression, pretty much guaranteeing that The Dark Knight Returns would never be more than a meme.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 6, 2023 12:32:01 GMT -5
The movie is just horrible, insulting, AND painfully boring to boot.
Just the worst.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 6, 2023 12:34:11 GMT -5
Hot Take incoming... I would rather watch B&R any day than any one of the Nolan movies. Why? Because Christian Bale is the absolute worst Batman that I could possibly conceive, and the movies are dark, brooding nonsense. The fact that these movies set the stage for basically every other comic book movie to turn dark and gritty just makes them even worse in retrospect. Honestly I hesitate a loooot to call the Nolan movies dark, brooding, and gritty. They certainly have a bit more of a serious, grounded (though still often absolutely absurd) air to them, but they have plenty of levity and they can't go two minutes without a passionate speech about optimism and holding onto hope and the greater nature of humanity. Now, yes, they did totally motivate tons of other movies that completely missed the point and aped their aesthetics but not their actual tone, but I don't really think it's fair to hold Man of Steel against Dark Knight. Yeah, I mean, who can forget Batman's impassioned speech to the Joker at the end? "This City...is ready to believe in GOOOOOOOD!"
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 6, 2023 13:10:51 GMT -5
See, that’s part of why I love Nolan Batman so much, it’s secretly really optimistic. The Joker raises hell and yeah, we were all going WHY SO SERIOUS for a while but the whole narrative was Bruce and Gordon proving that there was good in the world and that Gotham wasn’t going to be ruled over fear. Same with Dark Knight Rises, the city becomes a character and helps fight back. They appeal to my inner Superman fanboy (and it’s led to my belief that a Nolan Superman would mop the floor with anything Snyder came up with).
I’ll concede though Pattinson might be the best live action Batman, he’s the highlight of the Reeves movie IMO. Jeffrey Wright’s Jim Gordon was alright, but he wasn’t topping Gary Oldman. That wasn’t happening.
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