I fell into this YouTube rabbit hole of disgraced YouTubers

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Jesus Christ. At this point, people should just ignore these online fundraiser events and donate directly to charities.

[tirtefaa]

Dec 21, 2023 18:48:07 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Jesus Christ. At this point, people should just ignore these online fundraiser events and donate directly to charities.

I'm leery of any time someone asks for money. I understand that some people can't do this, but honestly you should try to find a way to help that doesn't require a blind pledge, if you can.

I used to fundraise a LOT for many years, and I cannot tell you how often I would see others raise money that was either utterly wasted or didn't go where it needed to go.

Charities prey on people's good intentions and understand that many people will impulsively donate and get that dopamine rush from doing something good. It's very gross, and it's something that I wish saw more regulatory actions, but unfortunately that would require those same people to look in the mirror, and they're unwilling to do that.

[Gunhaver]

Dec 21, 2023 18:48:07 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Jesus Christ. At this point, people should just ignore these online fundraiser events and donate directly to charities.

I was thinking this throughout the Completionist stuff. When you have that large of an audience, why not direct them to donate directly? Forming a nonprofit seems like such a headache just to act as a middleman. 

I admit I haven't followed it too closely, but it seems like he wasn't paying close attention to the goings ons of Open Hand. If that's the case, why bother? Just share a link so people can donate directly. You can still help the cause and people will still think highly of you.

[Mozenrath]

I understand that administrative costs can be a thing, but 42 percent is absolutely grotesque.

[The Captain]

Dec 21, 2023 22:09:56 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I understand that administrative costs can be a thing, but 42 percent is absolutely grotesque.

If everything was on the up and up, I don't think the "charity" in question would be trying to threaten the journalists writing this piece into silence either.

[Soultastic]

Dec 16, 2023 13:45:36 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

Dec 16, 2023 13:03:41 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Man, that's pathetic.

All he needed to do was donate the money, apologise for making fraudulent claims on the IndieLand streams, and make it clear he would not be involved in any charity drives in the future and he'd have been okay. Instead he dug a deeper hole for himself, got caught in lie after lie, and will be lucky if he retains even a third of his audience while burning bridges with the indie game world.

I doubt even this is the end of it. Once they dig into the golf events,I wouldn't be surprised to see the entire family as a part of this scam. The problem with Jirard was that he had enough eyes on him where someone would eventually find out. There's even the possibility that the 600k was sitting there as an example of a liquid asset where he could potentially use it to benefit himself directly in other ways.

Too much hubris from Jirard. I always got that vibe even with his minor controversies from back in the day, so I'm guessing he felt his 'response' of "I'm sorry you felt that way" despite the overwhelming evidence to.the contrary...yeah, his career is done.

Never knew of Jirard having any other controversies. What were they about?

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Dec 23, 2023 1:34:55 GMT -5 Soultastic said:

Never knew of Jirard having any other controversies. What were they about?

There was the falling out between Jirard and Greg, which led to Greg leaving the show in 2015 and then asking for the removal of all videos featuring him in 2017 because he'd stopped receiving royalty payments for them.

Ironically, Jirard took down the 120 videos that featured Greg with the intention of re-completing the games featured and remaking the videos. The next video which was scheduled to go live before the scandal broke was going to the 120th of those remake videos.

[Soultastic]

Dec 23, 2023 3:41:55 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Dec 23, 2023 1:34:55 GMT -5 Soultastic said:

Never knew of Jirard having any other controversies. What were they about?

There was the falling out between Jirard and Greg, which led to Greg leaving the show in 2015 and then asking for the removal of all videos featuring him in 2017 because he'd stopped receiving royalty payments for them.

Ironically, Jirard took down the 120 videos that featured Greg with the intention of re-completing the games featured and remaking the videos. The next video which was scheduled to go live before the scandal broke was going to the 120th of those remake videos.

I had no idea the remake vidoes were because of that. Thanks.

[thirteen3]

Dec 23, 2023 3:41:55 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Dec 23, 2023 1:34:55 GMT -5 Soultastic said:

Never knew of Jirard having any other controversies. What were they about?

There was the falling out between Jirard and Greg, which led to Greg leaving the show in 2015 and then asking for the removal of all videos featuring him in 2017 because he'd stopped receiving royalty payments for them.

Ironically, Jirard took down the 120 videos that featured Greg with the intention of re-completing the games featured and remaking the videos. The next video which was scheduled to go live before the scandal broke was going to the 120th of those remake videos.

I thought that Greg person was annoying and that the show actually improved once he left, but it say's a lot that Jirard would actually go through the effort of remaking the videos than just letting his old partner receive the ever shrinking returns from the old videos. (Unless it was classified as delicious, fruity, delicious evergreen content.)

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Dec 23, 2023 8:09:40 GMT -5 thirteen3 said:

I thought that Greg person was annoying and that the show actually improved once he left, but it say's a lot that Jirard would actually go through the effort of remaking the videos than just letting his old partner receive the ever shrinking returns from the old videos. (Unless it was classified as delicious, fruity, delicious evergreen content.)

As I understand it, Greg and Jirard co-founded the show and the production company behind it, but never signed any contracts and operated on handshake deals. Greg assumed they'd still cut him in on the stuff he was in and Jirard seems to have pulled the "I don't see any contracts" card. Stupid on Greg's part, real cheap on Jirard's since how much revenue do those old videos generate, anyhow?

[Soultastic]

Dec 23, 2023 8:21:20 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Dec 23, 2023 8:09:40 GMT -5 thirteen3 said:

I thought that Greg person was annoying and that the show actually improved once he left, but it say's a lot that Jirard would actually go through the effort of remaking the videos than just letting his old partner receive the ever shrinking returns from the old videos. (Unless it was classified as delicious, fruity, delicious evergreen content.)

As I understand it, Greg and Jirard co-founded the show and the production company behind it, but never signed any contracts and operated on handshake deals. Greg assumed they'd still cut him in on the stuff he was in and Jirard seems to have pulled the "I don't see any contracts" card. Stupid on Greg's part, real cheap on Jirard's since how much revenue do those old videos generate, anyhow?

He gave that revenue a Completionist rating of "Complete It", so he just had to keep it all.

[SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman]

So, apparently people are finally waking up to MamaMax being an egomaniacal fraud, who likes to make false accusations of pedophilia for self-promotion and whose content is largely if not entirely fake, especially since he apparently went completely mask off with his messianic complex recently. People are mentioning a stream where even his fans seem to think he was being unhinged; does anyone have more detail on what exactly happened durng said livestream?

Oh, and he apparently started an "ARG" that exploits real child disappearances and abuse cases while continuing to make false allegations against potentially innocent people, AND telling his audience to pester famous YouTubers to get them to watch his shit and give him free publicity. So there's that.

[Gunhaver]

Dec 23, 2023 13:32:47 GMT -5 SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman said:

Oh, and he apparently started an "ARG" that exploits real child disappearances and abuse cases

It's as though someone asked, "How I can make the worst aspects of the true crime community even worse--for profit?"
This is legit the most distressing thing I've read in a while. Like, friends and family of missing/abused children already have to deal with their stories being repackaged and sold to the public on a regular basis. But an ARG? What the hell?

[SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman]

Dec 23, 2023 17:23:01 GMT -5 Gunhaver said:

Dec 23, 2023 13:32:47 GMT -5 SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman said:

Oh, and he apparently started an "ARG" that exploits real child disappearances and abuse cases

It's as though someone asked, "How I can make the worst aspects of the true crime community even worse--for profit?"
This is legit the most distressing thing I've read in a while. Like, friends and family of missing/abused children already have to deal with their stories being repackaged and sold to the public on a regular basis. But an ARG? What the hell?

It's so confusing because from what I could gather, he himself referred to it as an ARG, but he's also claiming it's real? I think he just might not understand what an ARG is. He also seems to be using the ol' "I'm doing this to raise awareness" excuse. Anyway, I just watched a video that went over his recent uploads, and what I'm getting out of this whole situation is as such:

- He is claiming that a man named Camdan Jerrard Davis is a cult leader and sexual abuser and that he is helping several women who were his victims;

- He claims Davis has had hundreds of victims, although only four women seem to be involved in this thing. To be fair, they are saying that they are trying to get other victims to speak up;

- Max claims that he came across the entire thing and came into contact with some of the victims by magical coincidence through his sister;

- Despite police supposedly not being able to do anything about it, even with hundreds of accusers, MamaMax apparently thinks YouTubers can, because I guess he thinks Internet clout translates into legal and/or socio-political influence?

- One woman who's directly helping MMM, Shelby "Spencer" Slayton, definitely was reported missing in 2016 (or at least a woman by that name was), and she claims Davis is the reason why disappeared;

- MMM claims his group is currently working with the Atlanta Bar Association to bring Davis to justice. And to be fair, if that's true, good on him for actualyl going through the proper channels, although it just seems odd to me that he's working with lawyers id Davis was never arrested, or even seemingly suspected of any crime?

- His video(s) supposedly covering the story actually spends most of the time trying to grab the attention of YouTubers he deems to be influencers and complaining about them daring to talk about anything other than his video and how if everyone isn't talking about his world-changing video, it means they're supporting pedophiles or are pedophiles themselves. You know, the same crap he pulled with his "Pick a side, youTube" nonsense that already got him some backlash back then;

- In particular, he complained about drama channels covering the SSSniperwolf story and acted like it was petty nonsense with people ignoring the "real" issues, completely glossing over the whole "Doxxing someone and making him genuinely fear for his life" thing. Guess he doesn't care about abuse that much when he can't exploit it for self-promotion. People also pointed out that her audience is largely made of children, so you'd think Max would find her behaviour particularly troubling;

- He also was obsessed with getting Cr1tikal to cover his video for some reason, and when Cr1tikal didn't respond, again resorted to his typical "if you don't do what I want, you're a pedo" emotional blackmail. Note that Charlie was sick with Covid and basically in bed at all times during those days;

- In general, MMM is basically encouraging his viewers to harass their favourite "influencers" until they acknowledge (and of course praise) his video, and of course insists that anyone who doesn't is on the side of pedophiles;

- MamaMax has a weird gimmick going where he's saying that he's using "cult psychology" to brainwash influencers, but it's okay because he's doing to fight other cults raise awareness of the Davis case. he recenty renamed his channel to GODCULT before goign back to MamaMax;

- He seems to be under the impression that child abuse is mostly done by cults, which... isn't really true. At least I think he's getting at when talking about cults in the same breath as child abuse. Oh, and he's of course using Hollywood Satanism imagery because Satanic Panic was so cool the first time and had no negative consequence or anything, so why not put on a sequel?

- He vaguely mentions fighting powerful evil entities without ever getting specific about it. The whole thing reeks of QAnon-wannabe shit, honestly;

- MMM has yet to provide any evidence against Camdan Jerrard Davis, or even that he exists (good luck finding anything about him on your own as my attempts to search the name across multiple engines only brought up MMM's claims), or any of his other claims;

- Take it with a grain of salt, but people are claiming that Shelby Slayton is emotionally and financially dependent on Max, which certainly would make her devotion to him suspicious and at the very least be a very unhealthy situation;

- there may be more to it and stuff that actually explains more, but if that's the case, max hasn't felt necessary to bring it up on his main channel, leaving it to side material and interviews that people are expected to find on their own;

- If Camdan Jerrard Davis is real and a criminal, MMM is basically signaling to him that people are on his trail and giving him advance warning to destroy any evidence or run away before he's caught. Good job, Max!

[Gunhaver]

Dec 23, 2023 18:22:52 GMT -5 SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman said:

Dec 23, 2023 17:23:01 GMT -5 Gunhaver said:

It's as though someone asked, "How I can make the worst aspects of the true crime community even worse--for profit?"
This is legit the most distressing thing I've read in a while. Like, friends and family of missing/abused children already have to deal with their stories being repackaged and sold to the public on a regular basis. But an ARG? What the hell?

- If Camdan Jerrard Davis is real and a criminal, MMM is basically signaling to him that people are on his trail and giving him advance warning to destroy any evidence or run away before he's caught. Good job, Max!

This is why I can't take YouTube vigilantes seriously. Unless you're working directly with the police, you're potentially helping the alleged criminal get better at hiding their crimes. "But we shamed them!" Shame doesn't mean a thing if someone is determined to do something awful. You make the self-promotional videos after you've brought someone to justice. You certainly don't invite other randos to play investigator, either. I thought we learned that from Reddit following the Boston marathon bombing. 

It's all such nonsense, and I can't help but put equal blame on YouTube for incentivizing it with monetization. 

[Jedi-El of Tomorrow]

Um... wow this is just holy f***ing shit. When you think it can't get any worse, it does. Just a warning how bad this is, this cat (Ryan) makes Logan Paul look like a saint.

[Dr. T is an alien]

Nov 19, 2023 16:12:38 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Nov 19, 2023 15:52:41 GMT -5 Fundertaker said:

Definition of scam would be more "Charity solicits donations for years but owner pockets money instead of forwarding it to chartiable causes". Until something like that is proven, this is just incompetence and mismanagement. A scam is a crime and crimes have to be proven as such.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it seems to me the difference between mismanagement and a scam is whether one gets caught or not. I could maybe buy mismanagement if it happened for a year or two, but an entire decade? And for it to continue happening for two years after the face of the venture admitted to being aware of it happening? That's a tougher proposition to accept.

This is the one that bugs me. I know a thing or two about how research grants work, at least enough to know that setting up grants is a complicated process and $600K over 10 years is not as much as one might think if you don’t understand how it works. Heck, $125K isn’t a lot of expenses over a decade either as there are plenty of unavoidable legitimate administrative expenses that they’d incur.

Thing is, for that amount of money it would be simpler to act as strictly a fundraiser who then distributed the money to more established charities. $60K a year would not go very far otherwise. If they were saving up make setting up grants of their own worthwhile, then the amount in their coffers makes a little more sense, but it’s still really damned wasteful. Contributing 15-25% of someone’s research grant over that time would have been a much better use of the money than just holding onto it.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

[DichEvans]

Just going over this thread and seeing how many "cancelled" YouTubers are still making videos. If anything, it just seems to give their videos more views and creating more revenue for them.

Again, I am just curious, if you don't like someone, why continue to either "hate watch" them or give them attention? Is this not the exact reason why Logan Paul blew up?

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Jan 3, 2024 18:08:06 GMT -5 DichEvans said:

Just going over this thread and seeing how many "cancelled" YouTubers are still making videos. If anything, it just seems to give their videos more views and creating more revenue for them.

Again, I am just curious, if you don't like someone, why continue to either "hate watch" them or give them attention? Is this not the exact reason why Logan Paul blew up?

Most of these YouTubers who survive being "cancelled" do so via a combination of their transgressions flying under the radar of their casual viewers and having a core of loyal viewers who'll excuse them of just about anything.