Are Non-Looney Tunes/Tom & Jerry Shorts Underappreciated?

[CMWaters]

Something that crossed my mind talking to a friend. Most people nowadays talk about classic Looney Tunes shorts or Tom & Jerry ones since they've been pretty regular on TV, and of course the style of the shorts themselves.

But partially due to lack of televised visibility nowadays, have ones from Disney or Walter Lantz studios and the like become underappreciated these days?

Obviously some of them will have problematic things to deal with these days (see the backlash the Mr. Magoo live action movie got and apply it to the old shorts), but there are ones in the LT and T&J libraries too (looking at you, housekeeper lady from earlier T&J shorts). But I remember there was some fun to be had in some old Donald or Woody Woodpecker shorts that (save for in Brazil for Woody since I can confirm from friends of mine who live there he's a big deal there) I don't think get a look at much these days compared to the stuff owned by Time-Warner whatever it's called now.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

If there was any justice in this world, Bugs Bunny would be the global icon and Mickey Mouse would caught in a trap somewhere.

[theironyuppie]

Disney+ hasn't done the best job with making classic Disney shorts available. While it's understandable that they've left off the overly stereotypical ones (no one's expecting Cannibal Capers to show up on there...), there's a lot of their history that isn't available to modern viewers, especially with the Disney Treasures sets long out-of-print. I think those who care about the history of animation appreciate their work though, especially the more groundbreaking work of the 1930s.

[Nr1Humanoid]

I love Tom and Jerry, including miss Two Shoes, exept those horrible Chuck Jones ones, the man ironially behind the best cartoons of all the Looney Tunes.

[tirtefaa]

Underappreciated? I don't think so.

Singling out the Disney Silly Sympathies by themselves, I think the reason they aren't given a lot of focus is because Disney themselves is such a big conglomerate of what they've produced over the years, and if you're going to showcase something, it's probably going to be a lot of the features, something that they almost exclusively were able to be successful with for years and years.

However, there is an absolute wealth of cartoons that are forgotten mostly due to the studios going out of business or things falling into public domain, thereby giving no one any incentive to refurbish these cartoons. I think Walter Lantz can fall into this category. That said, the late 30's and early 40's are a particular favorite period for me when it comes to animation, especially when you see how much of a leap it has come in less than a decade before so. Fleischer Studio, Van Beuren Corporation, MGM/Harman and Ising, George Pal Studio, Screen Gems, Ub Iwerks Studio, and so forth. There is a TON of great cartoons that are out there that did innovative things that are essentially forgotten nowadays.

And for the quality of animation to take a massive dip in the 1950's? And most of that stuff is fondly remembered? It ain't fair, man.

Mar 29, 2023 4:13:51 GMT -5 Nr1Humanoid said:

I love Tom and Jerry, including miss Two Shoes, exept those horrible Chuck Jones ones, the man ironially behind the best cartoons of all the Looney Tunes.

In truth, Chuck Jones is a lot like Bob Kane in that he takes more credit for things that were likely collaborative (ironically something he smeared Clampett for years and years). It isn't a coincidence that once Jones had Michael Maltese to help write stories that his cartoons got much much better. He was always a terrific artist, but he was absolutely awful when left to his own devices.

[CMWaters]

Mar 29, 2023 4:18:22 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

Mar 29, 2023 4:13:51 GMT -5 Nr1Humanoid said:

I love Tom and Jerry, including miss Two Shoes, exept those horrible Chuck Jones ones, the man ironially behind the best cartoons of all the Looney Tunes.

In truth, Chuck Jones is a lot like Bob Kane in that he takes more credit for things that were likely collaborative (ironically something he smeared Clampett for years and years). It isn't a coincidence that once Jones had Michael Maltese to help write stories that his cartoons got much much better. He was always a terrific artist, but he was absolutely awful when left to his own devices.

Well, he did co-write "Gay Purr-ee", which I heard even if it didn't do that well in the box office wasn't that bad a movie (even if he did pretty much screw himself out of his WB contract because of it).

And animation wise, though the script was already done (and the animation style is like those later Tom & Jerry shorts)

[Mozenrath]

It depends. Some could use more love and have actual merits.

Then you have Woody the Woodpecker, who just kinda sucks.

[Sephiroth]

Popeye deserves more love. Screwy Squirrel needs to stay in hibernation.

[CMWaters]

Mar 29, 2023 9:41:15 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Popeye deserves more love. Screwy Squirrel needs to stay in hibernation.

Screwy actually died in his last short IIRC.

[Sephiroth]

Mar 29, 2023 10:03:38 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

Mar 29, 2023 9:41:15 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Popeye deserves more love. Screwy Squirrel needs to stay in hibernation.

Screwy actually died in his last short IIRC.

A big reason a number of animated characters are not as iconic is a money tunes or Disney is because they were never really all that good to begin with. Woody Woodpecker was mentioned above-does anyone a totally remember any of his shorts? But everyone remembers What’s Opera Doc.

[CMWaters]

Mar 29, 2023 10:15:26 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Mar 29, 2023 10:03:38 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

Screwy actually died in his last short IIRC.

A big reason a number of animated characters are not as iconic is a money tunes or Disney is because they were never really all that good to begin with. Woody Woodpecker was mentioned above-does anyone a totally remember any of his shorts? But everyone remembers What’s Opera Doc.

I haven't seen any except his first, mostly his TV stuff.

As I said before though, in Brazil Woody is very popular though. Possibly close to Mickey levels there.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Droopy should be more iconic, love his shirts, have a Tex Avery box set and there were a lot of good one offs. His "... of tomorrow" ones were pretty fantastic too.

[WoodStoner1]

Mar 29, 2023 9:41:15 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Popeye deserves more love. Screwy Squirrel needs to stay in hibernation.

Yes, including from Sony.

[tirtefaa]

Mar 29, 2023 6:44:18 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

Well, he did co-write "Gay Purr-ee", which I heard even if it didn't do that well in the box office wasn't that bad a movie (even if he did pretty much screw himself out of his WB contract because of it).

And animation wise, though the script was already done (and the animation style is like those later Tom & Jerry shorts)

Gay Purr-ee is very middle of the road. It has some good stylized backdrops, but most of the animation was standard for the time period where the characters aren't very animated. Again, just my bias, but I really hate limited animation in most cases, especially in animation today. The story is kind of a mess too in that it's a bit chaotic, but still toned down as elegant and cute, which just doesn't fit. It is too bad that Jones got fired from Warner though, since despite the dip in quality in LT across the board, he was still easily the best between who was left.

Funny thing about How the Grinch Stole Christmas, Jones was rather annoyed that he was left out of the creative process and went ahead and made animated changes that Seuss did not agree with. Specifically, Jones made the Grinch green, which Seuss absolutely hated, since up till that point the Grinch was white with red eyes.

[Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie]

my three funniest cartoons ever are from tex avery 1947-1950 ...

slap happy lion
bad luck blackie
ventriloquist cat

also
i wanna droopy shirt ...

[Deleted]

There definitely needs to be more appreciation for Fleischer Studios.

In the early 1930s, that studio was putting out some the wildest, most surreal animation you could ever imagine.

[WoodStoner1]

Mar 30, 2023 7:49:43 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

There definitely needs to be more appreciation for Fleischer Studios.

In the early 1930s, that studio was putting out some the wildest, most surreal animation you could ever imagine.

As a big Popeye fan, yes. I don't think he's been forgotten/underappreciated. He almost got a movie in the modern era. But yeah, the Warner Discovery brains do very little with the sailor man.

Anyone mention UPA, especially Mister Magoo? (thanks Weinerville for that...)

Would these count? The original Alvin Show was pretty much a collection of shorts. How about Batfink?

[Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast]

Fleishcher's work is still drop dead gorgeous looking. And I love me the classic Popeye and Superman shorts.


They've also been getting 4K restorations that look incredible

[agent817]

I remember Cartoon Network showing a Screwy Squirrel short a lot one day back in 1997. It was the "Happy-Go-Nutty" short. I don't know why it was shown nonstop for an hour or so, but I remember seeing it. Then again, I could say that about Tex Avery cartoons in general.

Also, because Walter Lantz was mentioned, when a local channel in my area showed "The Woody Woodpecker Show," which despite its then-modern opening credits, it was mostly old Woody Woodpecker shorts, along with shorts of Chilly Willy, Andy Panda, etc. I bet if these characters were more appreciated, then maybe Universal would have already had some more content of them.

[Ultimo Gallos]

I think a factor is this. When I was a kid 40 years ago before school we had Wood Woodpecker cartoons and Mighty Mouse Cartoons. After school was 30 minutes of Looney Tunes,30 minutes of Tom and Jerry and 30 minutes of Popeye.

Now the only channels I see airing classic cartoons are Boomerang,which is a channel lots of folks do not get. And METV. But watching METV's mornign block 90% of the letter written into the show are from fans my age and older.

People under 30 have very little idea who say Betty Boop is. And they have no clue who the original Tom and Jerry are. Or Molly Moo Cow. Or Hunky and Spunky.