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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 2, 2024 2:37:18 GMT -5
Does Roman even have any clean wins in this reign besides Bryan and Cesaro? And the former I feel like barely counts because he was bailed out against him three times before he actually managed to win one on his own.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 2, 2024 2:41:54 GMT -5
One of the worst calls recently was Cole saying something like You can disagree with his tactics but you can't argue with the results it's why he's the GOAT! yes, you can argue his f***ing tactics... and you should be... you're the play by play commentator and the voice of the company you should be pointing out that for all of his bluster Roman has almost never won clean in this title reign. And you use that in the stories. One of the reasons Drew could have genuinely won at Clash at the Castle was because he took away some of Roman’s advantage of the Usos and not to do with the fact they couldn’t enter the country because of DUI charges so (as much as the finish being the thing to put me off WWE TV for good) bringing in Solo made sense. But there was Cole listing off the names of people he beat like most of them weren’t because of cheating and underhanded tactics. It’d be like if Jim Ross spent most of the HHH reign of terror going “You got to respect the way he gets wins” when Ric Flair, Randy Orton and Batista were the reasons he was champion at all. The worst of the list is probably Finn... who had Roman beat and then the usos interfered... and then he beat down the Usos and Roman... and then the rope broke for no reason.... despite Finn being like the closest person to beat Roman and the Usos to that point... Finn just kinda decided that it didn't matter I guess? (Also that was one of the laziest booking decisions I've ever seen... the top rope snaps, why? Who knows... no explanation given.... f*** you.) |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 2, 2024 2:45:45 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism.
I haven’t seen such an obvious arrow pointing and sign stating “THESE HEELS ARE GOING TO BE EMBARRASSED, BUY THE SHOW AND WATCH THEM GET THEIRS” in wrestling in quite some time. And yes, if Roman in the highly unlikely event did retain, I would probably still be interested, and yes, I would do the disgraceful act of seeing where the story went, all the way into the spring (but I’m pretty sure since Cody is taking those belts, that’s not even something I’m concerned with). Sorry if that makes me a gullible WWE drone. I just enjoy the product as a whole right now.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2024 2:54:13 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism. I mean, the guy in charge of creative said he learned a lot from Vince, Pritchard and Hayes are still there, enough money people are seeing the Bloodline, especially with The Rock, still do well that have a financial reason to keep it going (especially with UFC being the anchor to WWE's success for TKO). Like, I'm sorry you're tired of it but for me personally, you can't just say "This is an obvious direction, they'll do it this time!" and convince me it'll be different because I've heard that story over and over again. The only way I'll believe it happened is if I get sent a GIF of Cody holding up gold belt, the signature box pops up at the bottom and we fade to black. Is it fair? No, but frankly, they haven't earned that benefit of the doubt. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 2, 2024 2:57:34 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism. I mean, the guy in charge of creative said he learned a lot from Vince, Pritchard and Hayes are still there, enough money people are seeing the Bloodline, especially with The Rock, still do well that have a financial reason to keep it going (especially with UFC being the anchor to WWE's success for TKO). Like, I'm sorry you're tired of it but for me personally, you can't just say "This is an obvious direction, they'll do it this time!" and convince me it'll be different because I've heard that story over and over again. The only way I'll believe it happened is if I get sent a GIF of Cody holding up gold belt, the signature box pops up at the bottom and we fade to black. Is it fair? No, but frankly, they haven't earned that benefit of the doubt. Fine, but even if the heels were to win, I would still be interested in what WWE was doing for the upcoming spring. That’s my main point. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 2, 2024 3:00:23 GMT -5
Even if you want to divorce yourself from the Vince baggage, it's not like Triple H has a passable track record with this shit either. Be it Gargano choking over and over and over in the Ciampa feud to the point it somehow ended up with him as the heel by the time it was done even though he was extremely sympathetic and Ciampa was a total bastard when it started, Sami winning the NXT title just to get immediately killed to end the show then drop it in his second defense, Keith Lee ending Cole's year long reign just to vacate the North American title, spend the next month getting repeatedly stomped by Kross, then lose the belt to him, Kairi beating Shayna when her title reign had already overstayed its welcome just to immediately drop it back to her and then the reign to go on for another 18 months... The man loves his misery porn.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2024 3:01:53 GMT -5
Fine, but even if the heels were to win, I would still be interested in what WWE was doing for the upcoming spring. That’s my main point. And hey, good. People are enjoying the product and they don’t need me to continue with that. Just pointing out it’s not like that’s all from nowhere. |
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Post by stoptheclocks on Apr 2, 2024 3:54:45 GMT -5
My issue again with this past year is that they didn’t really do much to have Cody want to chase Roman to get his title back. Have him mention that he got screwed and too many people have just gone “Ahh well, them’s the breaks” and want to fight him whenever except Brock/Judgment Day/Whoever say otherwise and you get feuds going from now until Rumble season where he wins it (and I know that seemed to happen for the tag match but it was only for that tag match before Brock killed him for reasons nobody knows outside of the booking team) He’d have some challenger’s back in their matches if it wasn’t for those. And for the love of God, stop hyping Roman up as the greatest thing for most of the year even though we can see he clearly cheats and has Solo or any Uso help him out and now just remember that he does that. And to the point about choice…A. Easily A. Look, I get the idea that his reign was solidified this past year but you’re a company looking to make money. This dude comes in and right away gives you a boatload in a way nobody else has for years with a dude who already doesn’t come in much or build matches much because of that. You had a pre-made story with the Usos losing the tag titles too and Roman acting like their loss was bigger. Go with that. If it doesn’t work out, you just give Roman the belt back and do what you were going to do anyway. Problem solved. I can't understand at all how you can be convinced that the no brainer option in terms of making money would be to do the exact opposite of the thing we know factually has made them a ton of money. Was it creatively a good decision? I personally think it's been justified but each to their own. Was it financially a good decision? Clearly and obviously. And if you think they'd have made more doing it another way then ok, but what could that possibly be based on? Ultimately I would be extremely confident that if you offered anyone involved (from the performers to the executives to the shareholders) the chance to go back and change the result of WM39, close to zero of them would actually do so. If anything it's worked out far better than they could've hoped. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 2, 2024 4:27:15 GMT -5
My issue again with this past year is that they didn’t really do much to have Cody want to chase Roman to get his title back. Have him mention that he got screwed and too many people have just gone “Ahh well, them’s the breaks” and want to fight him whenever except Brock/Judgment Day/Whoever say otherwise and you get feuds going from now until Rumble season where he wins it (and I know that seemed to happen for the tag match but it was only for that tag match before Brock killed him for reasons nobody knows outside of the booking team) He’d have some challenger’s back in their matches if it wasn’t for those. And for the love of God, stop hyping Roman up as the greatest thing for most of the year even though we can see he clearly cheats and has Solo or any Uso help him out and now just remember that he does that. And to the point about choice…A. Easily A. Look, I get the idea that his reign was solidified this past year but you’re a company looking to make money. This dude comes in and right away gives you a boatload in a way nobody else has for years with a dude who already doesn’t come in much or build matches much because of that. You had a pre-made story with the Usos losing the tag titles too and Roman acting like their loss was bigger. Go with that. If it doesn’t work out, you just give Roman the belt back and do what you were going to do anyway. Problem solved. I can't understand at all how you can be convinced that the no brainer option in terms of making money would be to do the exact opposite of the thing we know factually has made them a ton of money. Was it creatively a good decision? I personally think it's been justified but each to their own. Was it financially a good decision? Clearly and obviously. And if you think they'd have made more doing it another way then ok, but what could that possibly be based on? Ultimately I would be extremely confident that if you offered anyone involved (from the performers to the executives to the shareholders) the chance to go back and change the result of WM39, close to zero of them would actually do so. If anything it's worked out far better than they could've hoped. Sure, granted, but as a viewer the main event scene for the intervening year has largely sucked ass and most of the storytelling has made zero sense and as a viewer those are the things that actually matter. I’d undo Cody losing at 39 in a heartbeat even with hindsight. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2024 4:31:45 GMT -5
I can't understand at all how you can be convinced that the no brainer option in terms of making money would be to do the exact opposite of the thing we know factually has made them a ton of money. I mean, we don’t know how much money the other direction would have made because it didn’t happen and I’ll be honest, between you and me…probably would have made the same amount regardless. Because their entire business model is designed for fans to keep watching and companies to keep giving them money for that fanbase. Unless you’re trying to convince me Netflix wouldn’t have still shelled out billions because Roman wasn’t still champion in 2023 rather than the fact that the company was a gigantic cash cow for all involved (besides Fox) and wanted to use it to boost up its live sports streaming options that they’re testing out with Golf and Tennis. Basically, we can say “Well, this worked out so clearly the other option wouldn’t have” but we have no factual evidence to say as much besides how Cody’s merch was flying off the shelves, Cody’s house shows were bigger than the ones Roman main evented and Cody was still a ratings draw before and after his injury. So I feel like I can say things would probably have worked out how they did. |
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Post by stoptheclocks on Apr 2, 2024 6:17:39 GMT -5
I can't understand at all how you can be convinced that the no brainer option in terms of making money would be to do the exact opposite of the thing we know factually has made them a ton of money. I mean, we don’t know how much money the other direction would have made because it didn’t happen and I’ll be honest, between you and me…probably would have made the same amount regardless. Because their entire business model is designed for fans to keep watching and companies to keep giving them money for that fanbase. Unless you’re trying to convince me Netflix would have still shelled out billions because Roman was still champion in 2023 rather than the fact that the company was a gigantic cash cow for all involved (besides Fox) and wanted to use it to boost up its live sports streaming options that they’re testing out with Golf and Tennis. Basically, we can say “Well, this worked out so clearly the other option wouldn’t have” but we have no factual evidence to say as much besides how Cody’s merch was flying off the shelves, Cody’s house shows were bigger than the ones Roman main evented and Cody was still a ratings draw before and after his injury. So I feel like I can say things would probably have worked out how they did. I didn't say either of those things. Equally there's no guarantee Cody would've been booked well as champion or people wouldn't have gotten tired of him. It didn't happen, we'll never know. What I was responding to was you saying, with confidence, that they should've chosen a different path because they're in the money making business (which carries with it the implication that they would've made more money). It's like being convinced the Patriots would've won more Super Bowls had they fired Belichick and hired Andy Reid in 2012. Maybe they would have won more, maybe they would've won less. Maybe none of it matters because they had Tom Brady. But the point is, what did happen was enormously successful to the point where second guessing that decision seems pointless. |
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Tom Turkey
Ozymandius
The King of North America
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Post by Tom Turkey on Apr 2, 2024 6:33:41 GMT -5
 Given the last two weeks, I’m convinced this is what Cody has to do to put the Rock down. |
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Post by Starshine on Apr 2, 2024 6:48:05 GMT -5
My issue again with this past year is that they didn’t really do much to have Cody want to chase Roman to get his title back. Have him mention that he got screwed and too many people have just gone “Ahh well, them’s the breaks” and want to fight him whenever except Brock/Judgment Day/Whoever say otherwise and you get feuds going from now until Rumble season where he wins it (and I know that seemed to happen for the tag match but it was only for that tag match before Brock killed him for reasons nobody knows outside of the booking team) He’d have some challenger’s back in their matches if it wasn’t for those. And for the love of God, stop hyping Roman up as the greatest thing for most of the year even though we can see he clearly cheats and has Solo or any Uso help him out and now just remember that he does that. And to the point about choice…A. Easily A. Look, I get the idea that his reign was solidified this past year but you’re a company looking to make money. This dude comes in and right away gives you a boatload in a way nobody else has for years with a dude who already doesn’t come in much or build matches much because of that. You had a pre-made story with the Usos losing the tag titles too and Roman acting like their loss was bigger. Go with that. If it doesn’t work out, you just give Roman the belt back and do what you were going to do anyway. Problem solved. I can't understand at all how you can be convinced that the no brainer option in terms of making money would be to do the exact opposite of the thing we know factually has made them a ton of money. Was it creatively a good decision? I personally think it's been justified but each to their own. Was it financially a good decision? Clearly and obviously. And if you think they'd have made more doing it another way then ok, but what could that possibly be based on? Ultimately I would be extremely confident that if you offered anyone involved (from the performers to the executives to the shareholders) the chance to go back and change the result of WM39, close to zero of them would actually do so. If anything it's worked out far better than they could've hoped. Here’s where I get lost on this Roman thing. Why is he so important to the success of the product when he’s almost never around? Also if he doesn’t have the belt last year, what really changes in his booking? He doesn’t wrestle L.A. Knight in Jeddah? Because for all his biggest stuff like the Jey Uso match, the title was secondary to their feud, and the hook of that was he was trying to usurp Roman. Even Jimmy’s heel turn had nothing to do with the belt and all about the groups leadership. If he was around and headlining constantly, I’d get it, but that’s not happening, Cody’s been the main headliner over the past year. So how did they make the right decision when these signs point to them not going with the guy who really was carrying most of the shows? |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2024 6:57:26 GMT -5
I didn't say either of those things. I mean, that's basically what you were saying. It made them money, hence the deals happened. I mean, sure, but again, they've designed their entire business model on making money regardless of what the product actually does to the point where the only uptick is when an actual star appears like a Rock, Cena or even a Cody for a time. It's what Vince did with the company even during the rougher times when the product was bad but what were people going to do? Watch Impact? Use the Network for Classic stuff that rarely gets uploaded? Not go to WrestleMania? Like, yeah, it's pointless to say it would have been the case but I'm not really hearing an argument that Cody winning the belt last year wouldn't have done the same amount of business as before. Heck, I'll go ahead and argue it'd have done more because the Brock feud would have actually had substance and stakes to it instead of happening because we needed something big for them to do. Not really. Because if you replace a successful coach with someone else, there's no guarantee that it'll suddenly lead you to glory because the styles might not work, the players might get injured or leave, one of your opponents might sign Belichick and get better, Brady might have gone with him somehow, so many external factors across an entire league of teams that could have either helped or hindered the Patriots. In pro wrestling, you mostly control all of that (outside of injuries, bad behavior etc) so if Cody was booked badly, that wasn't Cody's fault in the same way Roman doing well was the success of Vince and HHH for keeping that momentum up. And in WWE, if a bunch of main event talent got stroppy and left, you basically made the PC a place where you can draft people up and try and establish them without hurting much. That's the advantage of 40 years of history, 19 of that being against zero competition. |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Apr 2, 2024 7:46:56 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism. I haven’t seen such an obvious arrow pointing and sign stating “THESE HEELS ARE GOING TO BE EMBARRASSED, BUY THE SHOW AND WATCH THEM GET THEIRS” in wrestling in quite some time. And yes, if Roman in the highly unlikely event did retain, I would probably still be interested, and yes, I would do the disgraceful act of seeing where the story went, all the way into the spring (but I’m pretty sure since Cody is taking those belts, that’s not even something I’m concerned with). Sorry if that makes me a gullible WWE drone. I just enjoy the product as a whole right now. Dude, I'm on YOUR side for this stuff, so there's no need to be mad at me here. Like, I'd love nothing more than for WWE to just be seen like every other wrestling company, where a scheduled match is met with "I'm interested in seeing how this plays out" as opposed to outright FEAR or "This person HAS to win OR ELSE". |
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 2, 2024 7:56:12 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism. I haven’t seen such an obvious arrow pointing and sign stating “THESE HEELS ARE GOING TO BE EMBARRASSED, BUY THE SHOW AND WATCH THEM GET THEIRS” in wrestling in quite some time. And yes, if Roman in the highly unlikely event did retain, I would probably still be interested, and yes, I would do the disgraceful act of seeing where the story went, all the way into the spring (but I’m pretty sure since Cody is taking those belts, that’s not even something I’m concerned with). Sorry if that makes me a gullible WWE drone. I just enjoy the product as a whole right now. That's understandable, but the ancient idiom of "don't count your rubber chickens untill they have been choked" is on the mind of most WWE fans right now. |
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Post by Andy Martin on Apr 2, 2024 8:26:34 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism. I mean, the guy in charge of creative said he learned a lot from Vince, Pritchard and Hayes are still there, enough money people are seeing the Bloodline, especially with The Rock, still do well that have a financial reason to keep it going (especially with UFC being the anchor to WWE's success for TKO). Like, I'm sorry you're tired of it but for me personally, you can't just say "This is an obvious direction, they'll do it this time!" and convince me it'll be different because I've heard that story over and over again. The only way I'll believe it happened is if I get sent a GIF of Cody holding up gold belt, the signature box pops up at the bottom and we fade to black. Is it fair? No, but frankly, they haven't earned that benefit of the doubt. …Until that gif fades back in from black, The Rock hits Cody with a Rock bottom, and wins the title. (I’m sorry) |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2024 8:30:31 GMT -5
I mean, the guy in charge of creative said he learned a lot from Vince, Pritchard and Hayes are still there, enough money people are seeing the Bloodline, especially with The Rock, still do well that have a financial reason to keep it going (especially with UFC being the anchor to WWE's success for TKO). Like, I'm sorry you're tired of it but for me personally, you can't just say "This is an obvious direction, they'll do it this time!" and convince me it'll be different because I've heard that story over and over again. The only way I'll believe it happened is if I get sent a GIF of Cody holding up gold belt, the signature box pops up at the bottom and we fade to black. Is it fair? No, but frankly, they haven't earned that benefit of the doubt. …Until that gif fades back in from black, The Rock hits Cody with a Rock bottom, and wins the title. (I’m sorry) If that happens, I’m coming on here to ban you so quick! (I’m joking. Mostly 😝) |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 2, 2024 8:44:33 GMT -5
I am so god damned tired of hearing about “historical baggage” and Vince’s preferences and spite booking and all the damn cynicism. I haven’t seen such an obvious arrow pointing and sign stating “THESE HEELS ARE GOING TO BE EMBARRASSED, BUY THE SHOW AND WATCH THEM GET THEIRS” in wrestling in quite some time. And yes, if Roman in the highly unlikely event did retain, I would probably still be interested, and yes, I would do the disgraceful act of seeing where the story went, all the way into the spring (but I’m pretty sure since Cody is taking those belts, that’s not even something I’m concerned with). Sorry if that makes me a gullible WWE drone. I just enjoy the product as a whole right now. Dude, I'm on YOUR side for this stuff, so there's no need to be mad at me here. Like, I'd love nothing more than for WWE to just be seen like every other wrestling company, where a scheduled match is met with "I'm interested in seeing how this plays out" as opposed to outright FEAR or "This person HAS to win OR ELSE". I wasn’t attacking you at all, EoE. You misinterpreted that. |
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Post by Talent Name on Apr 2, 2024 8:49:34 GMT -5
Given the last two weeks, I’m convinced this is what Cody has to do to put the Rock down. Or offer him a role in a Hobbs and Shaw II |
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