UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Apr 6, 2023 19:29:00 GMT -5
imagine making a booking decision so bad that even VINCE is like "YOU GOT A CONCUSSION PAL?!"
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 6, 2023 19:33:10 GMT -5
Yeah I know I'm jaded as f***, but that was all a little too "pro-Vince" to not be suspect. And if Vince wanted Cody to win. Cody would have won. HHH has no stroke over Vince. If Vince wants something he gets it. I'm gonna sit back and see how this plays out before I whiplash to "OMG now HHH is the evil one, poor Vince just wants to help!" Like we go from "Vince was rewriting the show as it was happening" to "he wasn't doing any re-writes, just suggestions" when we literally saw production people being handed rewrites from fans in attendance. C'mon.... Same here. I'll wait first and see how it plays out it given it was said that Cody losing was the plan all along, but until then, I'm in the mindset that if Vince really wanted Cody to win, he would've made sure it would happen. I still don't understand even if this was the plan all along No situation even if there is one where Cody wins, justifies him losing at Mania, it was the biggest moment for him to win, the moment everyone is gonna remember, the biggest crowd, maybe the most eyes on the product at any time during the year It's super hard for me to wait and see what the endgame is because it just feels like they missed what was THE moment. There are moments in wrestling that can be salvaged for any reason or another, injuries, life getting in the way for a wrestler, etc... Cody was ready, the audience was ready... for some reason that is simply baffling and may be forever... WWE wasn't, and this wasn't the moment in their eyes, and it's put people in a really bad place when it comes to trusting them again or caring about any of this going forward.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Apr 6, 2023 19:35:51 GMT -5
WWE does have a history doing stuff trying to influence public sway via the sheetz so I would not be at all surprised if Vince (or his camp or whatever) are trying to make his return to creative power more palatable. Can't wait for f***up football to be tossed back and forth trying to blame for the Cody loss (they gotta know how bad it's perceived if their dirt sheet strat is saying "well HE did it"). I wouldn't be surprised if everyone at the top thought the WM39 finish was a great idea until it got the reception it did.
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mc74
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Post by mc74 on Apr 6, 2023 19:49:13 GMT -5
Same here. I'll wait first and see how it plays out it given it was said that Cody losing was the plan all along, but until then, I'm in the mindset that if Vince really wanted Cody to win, he would've made sure it would happen. I still don't understand even if this was the plan all along No situation even if there is one where Cody wins, justifies him losing at Mania, it was the biggest moment for him to win, the moment everyone is gonna remember, the biggest crowd, maybe the most eyes on the product at any time during the year It's super hard for me to wait and see what the endgame is because it just feels like they missed what was THE moment. There are moments in wrestling that can be salvaged for any reason or another, injuries, life getting in the way for a wrestler, etc... Cody was ready, the audience was ready... for some reason that is simply baffling and may be forever... WWE wasn't, and this wasn't the moment in their eyes, and it's put people in a really bad place when it comes to trusting them again or caring about any of this going forward. Maybe in WWE's eyes, the endgame was always Roman vs Rock, and that's why they've been keeping this shit going for as long as they did.
*sigh*
But alas, all we can do is wait and see what that endgame is. However, if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that whatever the endgame is in their eyes, it's a terrible one. No matter who's really behind this, there's simply no excuse for Cody losing when the story was at its absolute peak, and also at a time where the current saga had to end for the next one to begin.
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khali
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Post by khali on Apr 6, 2023 19:56:16 GMT -5
If it was the plan for a while to have Cody lose, the booking is so much worse. You can’t have the top babyface talk about how he needs to finish the story and then fail to do it.
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Apr 6, 2023 20:16:30 GMT -5
I have no problem believing that Cody losing was ultimately HHH's call, but I WILL say I don't buy for one second that Vince had nothing to do with Raw's rewrites.
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mc74
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Post by mc74 on Apr 6, 2023 20:26:15 GMT -5
If it was the plan for a while to have Cody lose, the booking is so much worse. You can’t have the top babyface talk about how he needs to finish the story and then fail to do it. It really does, and if it is revealed that the endgame does end up becoming Roman vs Rock.....ugh.....there hasn't been anything in WWE that's made me go on an unhinged rant in years because booking has gotten so shitty that it's become expected, but man, if there was, this would be it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 6, 2023 20:27:03 GMT -5
WWE does have a history doing stuff trying to influence public sway via the sheetz so I would not be at all surprised if Vince (or his camp or whatever) are trying to make his return to creative power more palatable. Can't wait for f***up football to be tossed back and forth trying to blame for the Cody loss (they gotta know how bad it's perceived if their dirt sheet strat is saying "well HE did it"). I wouldn't be surprised if everyone at the top thought the WM39 finish was a great idea until it got the reception it did. It's pretty damn obvious they thought they were playing 5D Chess and then the finish happened and you had Paul and HHH immediately going "This is so amazing and this is the exact type of storytelling everyone wants just wait till the next show cause next time might actually be the time!" Like it's incredible to me, no matter whose fault it ultimately was, that they saw the Clash at the Castle finish absolutely destroy the entire Cardiff crowd (Who then had to endure loser Drew McIntyre singing to them right after) and then repeat the exact same finish months later and expect people not to be f***ing fed up with this shit when they already saw it and you just went and did it again and thought people would just be ok with it And that's not even factoring in the fact you did Sami Zayn's entire white hot storyline and blew through it in two months and everyone was like "Well it's ok that he's getting pushed to the tag titles because Cody's gonna win right?", so it's just this pile of absolute shit on top of another compiling in WWE just having to do one thing right, one single thing, but continuously seeing a babyface triumph, and going "Nah man you gotta see the bigger picture with this Roman storyline" F*** everyone involved, whether that's Vince, HHH, or both, this shit's undone everything they tried to build up since Summerslam and then some, and Vince-led RAW made sure to cement that if it wasn't already clear lol
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 6, 2023 20:28:47 GMT -5
I have no problem believing that Cody losing was ultimately HHH's call, but I WILL say I don't buy for one second that Vince had nothing to do with Raw's rewrites. The reports are Vince is back and he pushed HHH out during RAW completely, which is why the re-writes and last minute matches happened and morale tanked I absolutely believe those, and it really has me dreading Smackdown and the overall future right now But the sad part is, if it was HHH's fault for the Cody booking, even if he was still in charge, I also wouldn't have any confidence right now lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 20:31:22 GMT -5
I have no problem believing that Cody losing was ultimately HHH's call, but I WILL say I don't buy for one second that Vince had nothing to do with Raw's rewrites. The reports are Vince is back and he pushed HHH out during RAW completely, which is why the re-writes and last minute matches happened and morale tanked I absolutely believe those, and it really has me dreading Smackdown and the overall future right now But the sad part is, if it was HHH's fault for the Cody booking, even if he was still in charge, I also wouldn't have any confidence right now lol That's basically been my thing that I thoroughly believe that Vince is getting all the blame for basically everything and other responsible parties for this shit show are being treated like victims when it's clear the only people who lost are the fans...and well, Cody Going to say as well that we as fans are also responsible for allowing WWE to keep us on a yoyo where speculation of who is running dictates our passion for the product. Personally I don't believe Vince ever really left from an input standpoint
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Apr 6, 2023 20:33:30 GMT -5
I don't think HHH is a great booker, or even a good booker(You have to be able to you know, pay off a storyline), but he's not a mummy who's pulse is still stuck in 1985.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 6, 2023 20:37:02 GMT -5
I don't think HHH is a great booker, or even a good booker(You have to be able to you know, pay off a storyline), but he's not a mummy who's pulse is still stuck in 1985. Pretty much. I repeat what I said about it back on page 1, Triple H is better but better doesn't mean good.
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Post by wildojinx on Apr 6, 2023 20:39:18 GMT -5
Not to mention, maybe Vince did want Cody to win but suddenly turn him into Supercody where he goes over EVERY heel.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Apr 6, 2023 20:40:02 GMT -5
Not to mention, maybe Vince did want Cody to win but suddenly turn him into Supercody where he goes over EVERY heel. Shit. After the last three years, sign me the f*** up for that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 20:43:10 GMT -5
Not to mention, maybe Vince did want Cody to win but suddenly turn him into Supercody where he goes over EVERY heel. Yeah i've tried in my head to rationalize the chase growing with interest following this loss and even a resounding defeat of Lesnar really doesn't circle us back to the primary issue of Roman without lackluster shenanigans (don't tell Farva). Even then once we finally get the belt on him out of "okay fine" then what? He was going to have this issue post Mania anyway but this ugliness adds even more doubt to a worthwhile reign.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 6, 2023 20:44:25 GMT -5
I don't think HHH is a great booker, or even a good booker(You have to be able to you know, pay off a storyline), but he's not a mummy who's pulse is still stuck in 1985. HHH on the main roster booking wise still did a lot of shit I didn't like For one the tag division is a wreck, and one of the teams he tried to push in his era below the Usos were The Viking Raiders with Valhalla... which has been an absolute fart of a gimmick and would have been even is Sarah Logan wasn't a piece of shit. The de-emphasis on Ridge and Butch for The Banger Bros to get a tag title run just to also lose to the Usos really pissed me off too, such an entertaining team but they and Imperium never and may never get tag title runs because of how long the Usos held them... but The Brawling Brutes really became non-entities for way too long for how good they are and how much they proved themselves, especially Ridge, who I really came around on. And the women's divisions... haven't been good. Damage CTRL has had a ton of problems and have basically just been used as fodder on the latter half of their run, and the lower end division is all a joke, me and EOE ran stats on this a few weeks ago but the women he called back outside of Damage CTRL's win records were atrocious and still pretty much are. Woman like Piper, Cross, LaRae, "Mitchin", Emma, Sonya, Chelsea, Tegan, Xia... they're all just warm bodies for the main event women to catch and haven't done much of anything outside of Chelsea who has really made the gimmick work. And they're STILL trying to make Lacey Evans a thing... guh. Idk how much input on the Bray storyline's have been Bray and how much have been HHH but the whole storyline since his return promo has been a mess and it never got any better And LA Knight despite getting over and damn near taking over the Wyatt storyline because of it has been nothing but a jobber and didn't even make the Mania card in any capacity DESPITE actually getting the LA Smackdown crowd to give a single shit about the Andre Battle Royal... till he was eliminated Not even factoring any of that in, his NXT booking could be very hit and miss... as we saw with how he would book Gargano vs Ciampa, one last time... for the fifth time lol But was the product actively more watchable and easier to digest without Vince in charge? Yes, absolutely, not even a question lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 20:57:16 GMT -5
I could believe that HHH wanted Cody to lose thinking that fans will rally behind Cody even more.
But I do not believe it because while HHH may have dark clouds over his booking choices (specifically the women) he isn't one to book Cody like he did and NOT give him his moment and also as has been said just look at both nights of Mania and you can very easily tell who atleast had major influence on each night...Vince and HHH may have slight similiraities but their differences in booking ideologies are pretty damn easily distinguishable.
And also like someone said that Keller report is so pro-Vince that it honestly feels like we are about to engage in a split down the middle of those pro and anti Vince spitting out reports from their "sources" and everyone is just gonna have to wade through all the bullshit to find the actual scattered truth.
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Post by canceled4truth on Apr 6, 2023 21:13:07 GMT -5
I will say before Mania I posted in another forum that HBK is a better booker than HHH and I feel really good about that take rn
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Apr 6, 2023 21:15:06 GMT -5
I don't think HHH is a great booker, or even a good booker(You have to be able to you know, pay off a storyline), but he's not a mummy who's pulse is still stuck in 1985. HHH on the main roster booking wise still did a lot of shit I didn't like For one the tag division is a wreck, and one of the teams he tried to push in his era below the Usos were The Viking Raiders with Valhalla... which has been an absolute fart of a gimmick and would have been even is Sarah Logan wasn't a piece of shit. The de-emphasis on Ridge and Butch for The Banger Bros to get a tag title run just to also lose to the Usos really pissed me off too, such an entertaining team but they and Imperium never and may never get tag title runs because of how long the Usos held them... but The Brawling Brutes really became non-entities for way too long for how good they are and how much they proved themselves, especially Ridge, who I really came around on. And the women's divisions... haven't been good. Damage CTRL has had a ton of problems and have basically just been used as fodder on the latter half of their run, and the lower end division is all a joke, me and EOE ran stats on this a few weeks ago but the women he called back outside of Damage CTRL's win records were atrocious and still pretty much are. Woman like Piper, Cross, LaRae, "Mitchin", Emma, Sonya, Chelsea, Tegan, Xia... they're all just warm bodies for the main event women to catch and haven't done much of anything outside of Chelsea who has really made the gimmick work. And they're STILL trying to make Lacey Evans a thing... guh. Idk how much input on the Bray storyline's have been Bray and how much have been HHH but the whole storyline since his return promo has been a mess and it never got any better And LA Knight despite getting over and damn near taking over the Wyatt storyline because of it has been nothing but a jobber and didn't even make the Mania card in any capacity DESPITE actually getting the LA Smackdown crowd to give a single shit about the Andre Battle Royal... till he was eliminated Not even factoring any of that in, his NXT booking could be very hit and miss... as we saw with how he would book Gargano vs Ciampa, one last time... for the fifth time lol But was the product actively more watchable and easier to digest without Vince in charge? Yes, absolutely, not even a question lol Yeah, I still have way more faith in HHH being able to change with the times and correct his mistakes, for sure. Like, the HHH of 15-20 years ago would've never pushed somebody like Adam Cole or Johnny Gargano. He just really f***ed up at the absolute worst time and he's catching shit for it like any other booker would.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 21:19:23 GMT -5
HHH on the main roster booking wise still did a lot of shit I didn't like For one the tag division is a wreck, and one of the teams he tried to push in his era below the Usos were The Viking Raiders with Valhalla... which has been an absolute fart of a gimmick and would have been even is Sarah Logan wasn't a piece of shit. The de-emphasis on Ridge and Butch for The Banger Bros to get a tag title run just to also lose to the Usos really pissed me off too, such an entertaining team but they and Imperium never and may never get tag title runs because of how long the Usos held them... but The Brawling Brutes really became non-entities for way too long for how good they are and how much they proved themselves, especially Ridge, who I really came around on. And the women's divisions... haven't been good. Damage CTRL has had a ton of problems and have basically just been used as fodder on the latter half of their run, and the lower end division is all a joke, me and EOE ran stats on this a few weeks ago but the women he called back outside of Damage CTRL's win records were atrocious and still pretty much are. Woman like Piper, Cross, LaRae, "Mitchin", Emma, Sonya, Chelsea, Tegan, Xia... they're all just warm bodies for the main event women to catch and haven't done much of anything outside of Chelsea who has really made the gimmick work. And they're STILL trying to make Lacey Evans a thing... guh. Idk how much input on the Bray storyline's have been Bray and how much have been HHH but the whole storyline since his return promo has been a mess and it never got any better And LA Knight despite getting over and damn near taking over the Wyatt storyline because of it has been nothing but a jobber and didn't even make the Mania card in any capacity DESPITE actually getting the LA Smackdown crowd to give a single shit about the Andre Battle Royal... till he was eliminated Not even factoring any of that in, his NXT booking could be very hit and miss... as we saw with how he would book Gargano vs Ciampa, one last time... for the fifth time lol But was the product actively more watchable and easier to digest without Vince in charge? Yes, absolutely, not even a question lol Yeah, I still have way more faith in HHH being able to change with the times and correct his mistakes, for sure. Like, the HHH of 15-20 years ago would've never pushed somebody like Adam Cole or Johnny Gargano. He just really f***ed up at the absolute worst time and he's catching shit for it like any other booker would. and rightfully so... hell people have had their sights pointed at Tony since he started...myself included a time or two and I think it's wild all of the protection HHH has gotten because of the Vince problem. If I was Triple H I would never let Vince actually leave so I always had a scapegoat. Seriously i'd sit his ass down like Grandpa from Texas Chainsaw in that chair and hand him a Cup-and-ball (as if we aren't nearly there)
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