tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,381
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 28, 2023 9:26:51 GMT -5
I routinely fight Coke drinkers over the superiority of Pepsi. I'm an elitist PC gamer so couldn't give less of af about silly console wars.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,518
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 28, 2023 9:48:22 GMT -5
A lot of Sega's core issues come down to that they spent a lot in the early to mid 90s to get market share (leaving them without much of a safety net like Nintendo's had), did not anticipate Sony's 3D technology (leading to strained efforts to alter the existing Saturn engine to match it), and loads of internal fighting at the top of SoJ (which effectively hindered efforts to right the ship in the era of the Dreamcast). While the writing may have been on the wall as early as 96, with Sony and Nintendo's domination of the home and portable markets respectively giving Sega no real inroads with consoles, certain key decisions at critical points might have eased the decline a bit. I also think that the "add ons' to the Genesis didn't do it any favors in the public's eyes either. The Sega CD and 32x were basically put out and then left to die... there were like 40 CD games available in america... and only like 55 total... and 40 total for the 32x... and 6 of them required BOTH. The 32X was an interesting piece of hardware that I imagine was a challenge to program for. The reason why it required being set up the way that it was was that it essentially was a second mega drive daisy chained to the first one (16+16=32). The two systems split responsibilities. One would process the graphics of the sprites while the other processed the graphics of the background. One would handle sound effects while the other handled music.
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,546
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Post by schma on Apr 28, 2023 9:52:22 GMT -5
A lot of Sega's core issues come down to that they spent a lot in the early to mid 90s to get market share (leaving them without much of a safety net like Nintendo's had), did not anticipate Sony's 3D technology (leading to strained efforts to alter the existing Saturn engine to match it), and loads of internal fighting at the top of SoJ (which effectively hindered efforts to right the ship in the era of the Dreamcast). While the writing may have been on the wall as early as 96, with Sony and Nintendo's domination of the home and portable markets respectively giving Sega no real inroads with consoles, certain key decisions at critical points might have eased the decline a bit. I also think that the "add ons' to the Genesis didn't do it any favors in the public's eyes either. The Sega CD and 32x were basically put out and then left to die... there were like 40 CD games available in america... and only like 55 total... and 40 total for the 32x... and 6 of them required BOTH. They sorely misread the market with the 32x. They thought people would prefer minor upgrades to their existing console over the next gen. Then they panicked and released the Saturn something like 6 months to a year early with almost no warning. The combined fumbles of the 32x and Saturn's screwed up launch/early death was pretty much the one-two punch for Sega as a console maker. The Dreamcast didn't stand a chance after that. It's amazing that it did as well as it did. It's a shame too because they really seemed to right the ship with the dreamcast but by then, most people were just done with Sega. Plus, it's not exactly endearing when you kill a console mid cycle and then release another.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 87,143
Member is Online
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Post by chrom on Apr 28, 2023 9:57:12 GMT -5
Sega fought itself as much as they fought Nintendo and Playstation.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,357
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Post by salz4life on Apr 28, 2023 10:08:59 GMT -5
I have the Series X, but have ZERO problems with Playstation. Wish I had one to play the Spiderman games and may pick one up at some point, but I don't know.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Apr 28, 2023 10:36:14 GMT -5
Sega = WCW is such a great comp.
They were truly innovative at one point but then just ran out of steam and couldn't recapture what they once had by trying to keep the corpse of the Genesis alive with those crappy add-ons. Once Sony entered the fray, they were done, even though the Dreamcast is one of favorite systems ever (even with that weird-ass controller).
As for the 'Console Wars', I blame Sega for those polarizing commercials with 'Nintendon't' and horseshit 'Blast Processing' claims for continuing the stoke the fires. I don't recall Nintendo mentioning Sega at all, really.
And I owned both Genesis and SNES, so I was no fanboy of either.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 28, 2023 11:42:20 GMT -5
Sega = WCW is such a great comp. They were truly innovative at one point but then just ran out of steam and couldn't recapture what they once had by trying to keep the corpse of the Genesis alive with those crappy add-ons. Once Sony entered the fray, they were done, even though the Dreamcast is one of favorite systems ever (even with that weird-ass controller). As for the 'Console Wars', I blame Sega for those polarizing commercials with 'Nintendon't' and horseshit 'Blast Processing' claims for continuing the stoke the fires. I don't recall Nintendo mentioning Sega at all, really. And I owned both Genesis and SNES, so I was no fanboy of either. Nintendo did do their own goes of it here and there. Most notable's probably one of the DKC games putting Sonic's shoes next to a trash can on the ranking screen at the end, but also there was stuff like Nintendo trying to astroturf a protest over the Game Gear's marketing being ableist (despite the ads they were referring to clearly talking about dogs). They weren't as aggressive about it as Sega but they definitely took their shots.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 28, 2023 13:02:57 GMT -5
My brother once created a dungeon crawler RPG on his graphic calculator f*** your mainstream console shit
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 28, 2023 13:03:31 GMT -5
You can downplay the Cola wars but remember they're what pushed Billy Joel over the edge.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,852
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 28, 2023 13:27:05 GMT -5
A lot of Sega's core issues come down to that they spent a lot in the early to mid 90s to get market share (leaving them without much of a safety net like Nintendo's had), did not anticipate Sony's 3D technology (leading to strained efforts to alter the existing Saturn engine to match it), and loads of internal fighting at the top of SoJ (which effectively hindered efforts to right the ship in the era of the Dreamcast). While the writing may have been on the wall as early as 96, with Sony and Nintendo's domination of the home and portable markets respectively giving Sega no real inroads with consoles, certain key decisions at critical points might have eased the decline a bit. I also think that the "add ons' to the Genesis didn't do it any favors in the public's eyes either. The Sega CD and 32x were basically put out and then left to die... there were like 40 CD games available in america... and only like 55 total... and 40 total for the 32x... and 6 of them required BOTH. Here's the thing. Sega ALWAYS operated like that. They put out 3 different versions of the SG-1000 (the last one being what we know as the Master System), PLUS a compatible computer (SC-3000). The biggest issue is that SoJ was assmad about Tom Kalinske making Sonic a pack-in for the US Genesis ("You don't give away your flagship title for free!", SoJ argued), and the success that followed when the Japanese Mega Drive continued to be a failure in the face of NEC's PC-Engine (Turbografx), and later the SNES. They held the grudge against SoA pretty much the entire rest of the time they were in the hardware business, culminating in the pushed-up US release date for the Saturn (which caused Kalinske to quit in frustration), and having SoA and SoJ come up with their own separate designs for the Dreamcast, when SoJ never had any intention of using SoA's design, and were just wasting time and money to spite the American office.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,066
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Post by dav on Apr 28, 2023 13:30:01 GMT -5
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legendkiller1985
Don Corleone
If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice
Posts: 1,704
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Post by legendkiller1985 on Apr 28, 2023 14:20:20 GMT -5
I saw a quote somewhere that basically says these are fought by people too young to understand politics or people who are old enough to understand politics but don’t really care because it cuts into their gaming time. The older I get the more I tend to agree with that sentiment
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 28, 2023 14:36:55 GMT -5
I also think that the "add ons' to the Genesis didn't do it any favors in the public's eyes either. The Sega CD and 32x were basically put out and then left to die... there were like 40 CD games available in america... and only like 55 total... and 40 total for the 32x... and 6 of them required BOTH. Here's the thing. Sega ALWAYS operated like that. They put out 3 different versions of the SG-1000 (the last one being what we know as the Master System), PLUS a compatible computer (SC-3000). The biggest issue is that SoJ was assmad about Tom Kalinske making Sonic a pack-in for the US Genesis ("You don't give away your flagship title for free!", SoJ argued), and the success that followed when the Japanese Mega Drive continued to be a failure in the face of NEC's PC-Engine (Turbografx), and later the SNES. They held the grudge against SoA pretty much the entire rest of the time they were in the hardware business, culminating in the pushed-up US release date for the Saturn (which caused Kalinske to quit in frustration), and having SoA and SoJ come up with their own separate designs for the Dreamcast, when SoJ never had any intention of using SoA's design, and were just wasting time and money to spite the American office. I mentioned earlier how much Sega of Japan apparently hated Sega of America... for no real reason.
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Post by darbus alan on Apr 28, 2023 14:41:49 GMT -5
Sega had a lot of issues that didn't really have much to do with that mindset with Nintendo, especially since the Genesis was easily their most successful console. Their biggest problems came much later. The Saturn was basically DOA outside of Japan because of newcomer Sony's Playstation. Dreamcast had the opposite problem where it was generally pretty successful in the West but never caught on in Japan despite beating the PS2 to the market by over a year. A lot of Sega's core issues come down to that they spent a lot in the early to mid 90s to get market share (leaving them without much of a safety net like Nintendo's had), did not anticipate Sony's 3D technology (leading to strained efforts to alter the existing Saturn engine to match it), and loads of internal fighting at the top of SoJ (which effectively hindered efforts to right the ship in the era of the Dreamcast). While the writing may have been on the wall as early as 96, with Sony and Nintendo's domination of the home and portable markets respectively giving Sega no real inroads with consoles, certain key decisions at critical points might have eased the decline a bit. Yeah, even when Nintendo's home console business took a big step back to the Playstation line with the N64 and Gamecube, they were outright dominant in portable systems and that kept them in the green. No one ever came close to even hurting Nintendo's stranglehold on that market. Game Gear might've had a chance if it could last a couple of hours without needing to change batteries. But the only other system to come close was the PSP. And as well as the PSP performed (IIRC, it sold over 60 million units over the course of its 4 different hardware revisions), it still barely made a dent into the DS' market share.
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Post by castletonsnob on Apr 28, 2023 15:47:01 GMT -5
I also think that the "add ons' to the Genesis didn't do it any favors in the public's eyes either. The Sega CD and 32x were basically put out and then left to die... there were like 40 CD games available in america... and only like 55 total... and 40 total for the 32x... and 6 of them required BOTH. Here's the thing. Sega ALWAYS operated like that. They put out 3 different versions of the SG-1000 (the last one being what we know as the Master System), PLUS a compatible computer (SC-3000). The biggest issue is that SoJ was assmad about Tom Kalinske making Sonic a pack-in for the US Genesis ("You don't give away your flagship title for free!", SoJ argued), You know, despite the fact that Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt and Super Mario World were both pack-ins for the NES and SNES, respectively, and sold VERY well.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Apr 28, 2023 16:50:22 GMT -5
Is this still a thing?
I remember Sega kinda kick started it by having commercials shit talking Nintendo when Genesis came out.
Sega's marketing department was REALLY good at their job, between the "Blast processing" "Genesis Does" commercials and deciding to not censor Mortal Kombat they did a good job making Genesis seem like the cooler system for more mature gamers
and during that 16/32/64 Bit era all the major companies would put out commercial dissing the competition by name
Maybe I'm just too old to see wherever commercials for new video games are airing but for some reason I thought the remaining console makers weren't really doing that anymore
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Post by Zombie Mod on Apr 28, 2023 17:02:05 GMT -5
My brother once created a dungeon crawler RPG on his graphic calculator f*** your mainstream console shit your brother works for Bethesda? is he the reason why Skyrim has been ported to everything?
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,623
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Post by Burst on Apr 28, 2023 17:05:08 GMT -5
You could say the same thing about sports (or really anything else). There's no reason to be a 45 year old man wearing the same type of shirts that guys playing with a ball also wear. All the internet and cons did was spill over the extreme tribalistic culture that existed elsewhere. At risk of derailing the thread and playing devil's advocate here (since I've definitely encountered more than my share of [person]children both re: nerdy things and re: sporty things *coughs in OSU vs UM*), but then what's supposed to be an acceptable hobby at age 45, then? I guess I'm just thinking of my cousins who are essentially salarymen and who get to look forward to 10 hour days and then leaving work for mandatory social drinking with the boss and higher ups, and *maybe* if they're lucky they'll get back home while their kids are still awake, or growing up in the sticks, the seeming cultural expectation that the only acceptable hobbies for a grown man were drinking, hunting, football, and trucks.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 28, 2023 17:06:13 GMT -5
Is this still a thing? I remember Sega kinda kick started it by having commercials shit talking Nintendo when Genesis came out. Sega's marketing department was REALLY good at their job, between the "Blast processing" "Genesis Does" commercials and deciding to not censor Mortal Kombat they did a good job making Genesis seem like the cooler system for more mature gamers and during that 16/32/64 Bit era all the major companies would put out commercial dissing the competition by name Maybe I'm just too old to see wherever commercials for new video games are airing but for some reason I thought the remaining console makers weren't really doing that anymore there are a lot of playstation and Xbox fan boys
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Apr 28, 2023 17:16:10 GMT -5
Is this still a thing? I remember Sega kinda kick started it by having commercials shit talking Nintendo when Genesis came out. Sega's marketing department was REALLY good at their job, between the "Blast processing" "Genesis Does" commercials and deciding to not censor Mortal Kombat they did a good job making Genesis seem like the cooler system for more mature gamers and during that 16/32/64 Bit era all the major companies would put out commercial dissing the competition by name Maybe I'm just too old to see wherever commercials for new video games are airing but for some reason I thought the remaining console makers weren't really doing that anymore there are a lot of playstation and Xbox fan boys I get that, but are Sony/X-Box/Nintendo actually making commercials going at the other 2? At this point most systems play the same games with a hand full of exclusives here and there as far as I can tell.
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