Is LA Knight Proof WWE's Developmental System is Flawed?

[DichEvans]

I don't mean the concept of NXT, but the fact they spend more time recruiting fitness models and collegiate athletes than people on the indies who have spent a lot of time honing their craft.

LA is miles better than anyone they have developed in the last 5 years. It seems many NXT call-ups don't really understand the 'art of pro wrestling', and just seem like a copy/paste versions of each other, who all wrestle the exact same style, while cutting the exact same promos.

I would also like to note, the hottest main event scene they have created in the last decade involving the bloodline, all involves guys who are either 3rd/4th generation, or guys who spent 10+ years on the indies. They all clearly get the nuances of pro wrestling, while I can't really point to any recent NXT grad who is remotely capable of having that kind of run.

Same with the women, the best females on the roster all spent time on the indies or were 2nd/3rd generation and there is a clear separation between those who love wrestling and those who ended up in WWE playing "wrestlers" because they were scouted.

[pinja]

How many of the refined indie wrestlers became stars on the main roster? LA Knight is an exception to the rule, because he always felt taylor made for WWE, yet apparently Donut Bill forced him out of developmental. It should be much easier to find great, fitting talent on the indie scene, but I think it can be hard to tell how well they'll translate to the mega production of WWE. Eli Drake was entertaining, but the scope of TNA alone didn't make him look as undeniable as he is right now. I made a hard turn towards him the past couple of weeks because I still had too much of his indie image in my head.

[4real]

Guys like Knight, Nick Aldis & EC3 seem made for WWE but for some reason weren’t pushed as hard as you think they would be or in case of Aldis never got signed

Knight is obviously not the greatest in the ring. He’s fine but man he is over and WWE needs to capitalise on this.

[Andew9001]

I think it's kinda a double edged sword.

They've created stars like Roman, Bianca, Charlotte, Braun, Big E, The Street Profits, etc and have taken wrestlers like Priest, Bayley, Rhea and Sasha and others who started on the indys but were refined in the WWE.

And it looks like they've got 2 more stars in Bron and Carmello.

And sure they had a lot of success with Finn, AJ, Seth, Moxley, Bryan, etc but then they've also had wrestlers like Riccochet, Apollo, Cesaro, Chris Hero and others who always had something holding them back.

Like any developmental system it will produce some duds but if it produces enough stars then that's all it needs to justify itself.

[Nosnorb]

Jul 1, 2023 2:59:34 GMT -5 Andew9001 said:

And sure they had a lot of success with Finn, AJ, Seth, Moxley, Bryan, etc but then they've also had wrestlers like Riccochet, Apollo, Cesaro, Chris Hero and others who always had something holding them back.

It's harsh on Cesaro to put him in the latter list considering the dude was part of a very successful tag team and got to experience the main event. He doesn't really belong in the latter category.

[Andew9001]

Jul 1, 2023 4:25:46 GMT -5 Nosnorb said:

Jul 1, 2023 2:59:34 GMT -5 Andew9001 said:

And sure they had a lot of success with Finn, AJ, Seth, Moxley, Bryan, etc but then they've also had wrestlers like Riccochet, Apollo, Cesaro, Chris Hero and others who always had something holding them back.

It's harsh on Cesaro to put him in the latter list considering the dude was part of a very successful tag team and got to experience the main event. He doesn't really belong in the latter category.

I meant it more in a general sense that there were a number of indy guys who came in with a lot of hype and had one issue or another that held them back. But yes i'll admit i'm being a bit harsh on Cesaro.

In fairness i'd put him in a group with Pac, Keith Lee and Swerve who had the ability but no support from the guy at the top.

[JasonVoorhees1988]

Jul 1, 2023 4:54:36 GMT -5 Andew9001 said:

Jul 1, 2023 4:25:46 GMT -5 Nosnorb said:

It's harsh on Cesaro to put him in the latter list considering the dude was part of a very successful tag team and got to experience the main event. He doesn't really belong in the latter category.

I meant it more in a general sense that there were a number of indy guys who came in with a lot of hype and had one issue or another that held them back. But yes i'll admit i'm being a bit harsh on Cesaro.

In fairness i'd put him in a group with Pac, Keith Lee and Swerve who had the ability but no support from the guy at the top.

Cesaro is this generations Billy Gunn.

I mean that as a compliment. He had insane chemistry with multiple tag partners.

Hero, Kidd, Nak, Rusev and obviously Sheamus.

The Bar is a legit all time team and Cesaro/Claudio's best tag work. Yes I rate it even higher than the King's stuff with Hero.

[Bo Rida]

It's the same issue they've had for years regardless of background. They try to force everyone into a narrow idea of what they deem a wrestler should be but those that find the most success find a way to break out of those shackles.
Even their handpicked main star took a long time to stop being forced into a hybrid of previous top guys and be the first Roman Reigns.

Those thay do manage to get freedom tend to be 2nd and 3rd generation wrestlers because they're given more oppurtinities or those with indy experience that can read and react to different situations. However it can be others if they're good and/or lucky.

[Zombie Mod]

Cesaro is harsh to class as some what of an indie flop in wwe, he managed to get over several times as a solo star only for someone in creative pull the rug from under him and stall him out by giving him next to nothing or turning him heel almost instantly.

the bigger issue with wwe's development system is someone high up in wwe purposely set out to sabotage both the tv arm of developmental and any wrestler called up to the main roster. there was a good chunk of time where being called up to the main roster meant at least six months of bad booking.

[mrpeacock]

Jul 1, 2023 2:59:34 GMT -5 Andew9001 said:

I think it's kinda a double edged sword.

They've created stars like Roman, Bianca, Charlotte, Braun, Big E, The Street Profits, etc and have taken wrestlers like Priest, Bayley, Rhea and Sasha and others who started on the indys but were refined in the WWE.

And it looks like they've got 2 more stars in Bron and Carmello.

And sure they had a lot of success with Finn, AJ, Seth, Moxley, Bryan, etc but then they've also had wrestlers like Riccochet, Apollo, Cesaro, Chris Hero and others who always had something holding them back.

Like any developmental system it will produce some duds but if it produces enough stars then that's all it needs to justify itself.

Carmelo Hayes was an Indy guy he just wasn’t working major companies. But he has been wrestling for close to a decade.

[Final Countdown Jones]

There's really no one-size-fits-all approach to developmental and I think the issue lies mostly in how they've had periods of this single mindset of "This is how we're going to build stars" and focusing too hard on it alone. There should be room to raise up really great prospects from scratch and to refine experienced wrestlers. That said, training matters a lot too; I think they keep their homegrowns too narrowly purpose-built and I think they don't do enough to take strong workers and prep them for the mic. There's probably a lot of flaws with the developmental system, but I don't think their issues are really the ones that held LA Knight back.

[fw91]

I think it’s just proof that work rate is secondary… not to management, but the fans.

[Andew9001]

Jul 1, 2023 9:40:29 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Jul 1, 2023 2:59:34 GMT -5 Andew9001 said:

I think it's kinda a double edged sword.

They've created stars like Roman, Bianca, Charlotte, Braun, Big E, The Street Profits, etc and have taken wrestlers like Priest, Bayley, Rhea and Sasha and others who started on the indys but were refined in the WWE.

And it looks like they've got 2 more stars in Bron and Carmello.

And sure they had a lot of success with Finn, AJ, Seth, Moxley, Bryan, etc but then they've also had wrestlers like Riccochet, Apollo, Cesaro, Chris Hero and others who always had something holding them back.

Like any developmental system it will produce some duds but if it produces enough stars then that's all it needs to justify itself.

Carmelo Hayes was an Indy guy he just wasn’t working major companies. But he has been wrestling for close to a decade.

Really? Didn't know that. I always thought he was a fairly newish guy to wrestling since he was in team 2.0 against NXT Gold in War Games.

[HisRoyalGreeness]

It’s funny that this question is posed with LA Knight being the subject. If I recall correctly, when WWE put out that FCW documentary they kind of threw shade at Knight mentioning guys that were always trying to get their catchphrases in and showing his promo clips specifically.

[mrpeacock]

Jul 1, 2023 11:56:23 GMT -5 Andew9001 said:

Jul 1, 2023 9:40:29 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Carmelo Hayes was an Indy guy he just wasn’t working major companies. But he has been wrestling for close to a decade.

Really? Didn't know that. I always thought he was a fairly newish guy to wrestling since he was in team 2.0 against NXT Gold in War Games.

He wrestled as Christian Casanova, you can find matches online with him against Daniel Garcia and John Silver. He’s got such a young look you wouldn’t think he’s been wrestling since 2014.

[Feargus McReddit]

Jul 1, 2023 8:35:10 GMT -5 Zombie Mod said:

Cesaro is harsh to class as some what of an indie flop in wwe, he managed to get over several times as a solo star only for someone in creative pull the rug from under him and stall him out by giving him next to nothing or turning him heel almost instantly.

the bigger issue with wwe's development system is someone high up in wwe purposely set out to sabotage both the tv arm of developmental and any wrestler called up to the main roster. there was a good chunk of time where being called up to the main roster meant at least six months of bad booking.

Very, very much this. It still absolutely baffles me to this day that, when this new NXT was formed, Vince and HHH didn't sit in a room together and map out a plan of the type of talent he wanted to establish and a through line between who was being signed and brought in and how that person was potentially going to fit on the main roster. And yeah, it might have lost us an age of wrestling TV people liked (that for some reason, selling out arenas was part of developmental as a cost which made it seem like a money loser which...*bashes head on desk*) but it would have given us a system that, honestly, wouldn't have had so many caveats on who came from it and who didn't. Like, I don't think there's been an NXT class as company defining that was home-made than Batista/Orton/Cena.

Like, with OVW, there was at least an excuse. Cornette/Heyman/Snow were booking for a local crowd for local syndication and even if that was being messed up, it wasn't like fans could find out about the talent unless they were watching those shows. When your show is being put on your streaming service that you make into a flagship of it and then eventually national television, that excuse basically evaporates.

It feels like we're closer to that but even then, Shawn Michaels said in an interview that there's no real interaction between the two of them in terms of callups and booking which tells me this shit is still happening which means that there's no real point of following NXT on USA to find out about WWE's next big star which just seems extremely counter productive.