End of Attitude and start of Ruthless Aggression.

[agent817]

So I was wondering. For the past couple of decades, many fans believe that the Attitude Era ended at Wrestlemania X-Seven. I have also read people say that it ended when the WWF changed to WWE (more on this in a bit). Then you have Ruthless Aggression, which some state that it had started post Wrestlemania X8, like around the time of original draft for the brand split. Just a little note, it's crazy to think that there was only one whole month where we had the brand split while it was still the WWF. Then of course, some believe Ruthless Aggression started when it became WWE. Despite the change from F to E, the product still had a similar feel to what was going on before it.

Also, would you the say the Invasion angle was in a transitional period that was its own era before the change? Or would you say it was still the Attitude Era? I mean you had the post WM17 period before the Invasion storyline that occurred for the better part of 2001 and then post-Invasion after Survivor Series to Wrestlemania the following year. I mean it didn't feel like Attitude at the start of 2002.

What do you think?

[fw91]

attitude ended at mania X7.
I'd say the next year was the "post war" period, with ruthless agression starting at mania x8

[sungod2020]

Jul 7, 2023 16:32:36 GMT -5 agent817 said:

So I was wondering. For the past couple of decades, many fans believe that the Attitude Era ended at Wrestlemania X-Seven. I have also read people say that it ended when the WWF changed to WWE (more on this in a bit). Then you have Ruthless Aggression, which some state that it had started post Wrestlemania X8, like around the time of original draft for the brand split. Just a little note, it's crazy to think that there was only one whole month where we had the brand split while it was still the WWF. Then of course, some believe Ruthless Aggression started when it became WWE. Despite the change from F to E, the product still had a similar feel to what was going on before it.

Also, would you the say the Invasion angle was in a transitional period that was its own era before the change? Or would you say it was still the Attitude Era? I mean you had the post WM17 period before the Invasion storyline that occurred for the better part of 2001 and then post-Invasion after Survivor Series to Wrestlemania the following year. I mean it didn't feel like Attitude at the start of 2002.

What do you think?

That's hard to determine since it's not like the Attitude Era ended one day and then the Ruthless Aggression Era started the next. Next to mention the period you mentioned(immediately after Wrestlemania X-7 until The Invasion) had an Attitude Era feel.

I can tell you that the night after Survivor Series 2001, it felt like they were trying to push the reset button and pretend The Invasion Angle never happened. 2002 on the whole felt like a hangover from the Attitude Era where they were so desperately trying to keep that edge of theirs but making fools of themselves in the process. It's like they were saying "see, we're still hip and edgy(please come back)"

I would say Wrestlemania XIX was like them finally admitting that the Attitude Era was behind them with Rock and Austin squaring off for one final time. After that they were completely out of orbit and the shows certainly felt that way(for better or worse).

[Fundertaker]

Attitude Era ends with WM X-7
Ruthless Aggression begins at the RAW after WM X8, with the debut of Brock Lesnar (the first big figure of that era to debut)
In between you have the Invasion/WCW-sploitation Era. Yes, the Invasion storyline only lasted until Survivor Series, but then you had Ric Flair returning and the the nWo arriving at the WWE. And although the nWo didn't end at WM X8, it might as well had.

[johnnyk9]

I agree with WM 17 once the Invasion angel started it was no longer Attitude

[jonesdp]

I think every WWE superstar in the men's division wants the Royal Rumble wins to main event a WrestleMania for the WWE/World Heavyweight championships, I would say the Attitude Era ended after WrestleMania 20. The 2003 Royal Rumble still had Stone Cold Steve Austin's promo after January 20th, 2003 - WrestleMania 19. The 2004 Royal Rumble had promos for The Rock reunited with Mick Foley as The Rock N' Sock Connection vs. Evolution at WrestleMania 20. The Ruthless Aggression Era started on December 13th, 2004, after WrestleMania 20 was the 2004 draft that resulted in John Cena's reign as the United States Champion. The women's division was still a time when they were too sexual for TV after the Attitude Era.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Feb 28, 2024 10:23:26 GMT -5 jonesdp said:

I think every WWE superstar in the men's division wants the Royal Rumble wins to main event a WrestleMania for the WWE/World Heavyweight championships, I would say the Attitude Era ended after WrestleMania 20. The 2003 Royal Rumble still had Stone Cold Steve Austin's promo after January 20th, 2003 - WrestleMania 19. The 2004 Royal Rumble had promos for The Rock reunited with Mick Foley as The Rock N' Sock Connection vs. Evolution at WrestleMania 20. The Ruthless Aggression Era started on December 13th, 2004, after WrestleMania 20 was the 2004 draft that resulted in John Cena's reign as the United States Champion. The women's division was still a time when they were too sexual for TV after the Attitude Era.

When they came back, it did seem like The Rock and Sock were almost from a bygone era, they were very much the past taking on the present/future.

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

The Invasion angle and the nWo debacle at this point feels like a weird year long epilogue to the Attitude Era with the Ruthless Aggression Era starting summer of 2002.

[Jindrak Mark]

Summer 2002 seems right for the beginning of the RA era. The NWO fizzled out. Austin walked out. Rock was ending his full-time run and putting over Brock. Cena debuted and used the term in his debut promo. And it started becoming more common for longer matches to be on TV.

[ToyfareMark]

They kept Attitude at the end of the opening until the return to USA in 2005.

[OGBoardPoster2005]

Attitude ends at Wrestlemania 17. Ruthless Aggression begins after Wrestlemania 18. The year in between is a transitional period where elements of the Attitude Era remain but the core of it is deteriorating and evolving.

The best analogy would be how Rock n Wrestling ends at the end of Wrestlemania 8 and New Generation begins after Wrestlemania 10. Theres a transitional period where the elements of the previous era remain and many aspects do but over the course of the time in between those aspects change and evolve into something else, even if parts of it are still the same.

For the 80s analogy it would be that the WWWF era ends in 1982 and Rock n Wrestling begins with Hulk winning the belt at MSG. You still have Vince announcing, Bob on commentary and managers like Blassie and Albano but its evolving between 1982 and 1984 into something different.

The turnaround time for Attitude to Ruthless is shorter than most because there wasn't any competition left by the end of the Attitude Era and so the entire motive and drive of it changed and so you have what becomes this new weird era where there is no WWF, WCW or ECW, just the WWE and this new company called TNA.

Imagine being a fan in January 2001 and not really being in the know on the industry outside of watching Nitro from 8-9 on Mondays, flipping between 9 and 10 between Nitro and Raw, and then just Raw after before watching ECW on PPV. Then you just stop for a few years and one day stumble upon an ad for TNA on PPV one channel and John Cena on the next channel.

We truly don't realize how short of time transitions like these are and all 3 of these had significant impact on the industry. In the 20 years between 1982 and 2002, Pro Wrestling went from WWWF, JCP, GCW, CWF, CWA, FCW, Mid-South, WCCW, AWA, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Kansas City, and San Antonio terrtiories to just WWF, WCW and ECW 10 years later to just WWE and TNA 10 years after that.

In those 20 years you can go from being a 9 year old kid watching those multiple territories on Cable TV to being a 19 year old with only the WWF and WCW and rumors of ECW to being a 29 year old and suddenly its only WWE on TV and this company called TNA on PPV weekly.

But each needed a period in between to bridge it because one era just doesn't start where another ends, theres a year of epilogue after the Attitude Era (The Invasion) and a Prologue prior (Vince/Flair leading to the Brand Split).

I don't get how people try to say 2004 is still the Attitude Era. Theres aspects and some characters but it strays so far away from the story of that era (Austin/McMahon, Bret/Shawn, etc.) that its hard to connect JBL, Brock, and Cena to it.

[ToyfareMark]

Feb 28, 2024 17:38:56 GMT -5 ToyfareMark said:

They kept Attitude at the end of the opening until the return to USA in 2005.

[Andee9001]

They added Invasion era DDP to WWE 13 so as far as i'm concerned that made The Invasion canon to the Attitude Era

😁

[simplydurhamcalling]

I was thinking these eras usually change gradually but in this case in hindsight it really is like an overnight switch with Austin's turn. The two man power trip fits far more as a ruthless aggression act/angle than an attitude era one. Maybe that's why it didn't get over very well, it was out of place at the time.