|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 20, 2023 7:44:51 GMT -5
Right, but even if the triple threat was meant to be the plan, they could have set that up way earlier. Even something as simple as Charlotte whining about how Fit Finlay didn’t have the authority to add Becky to the Rumble would have made more sense, rather than the whole ‘will Becky apologise???’ thing that went for weeks and made no one happy, just for a moment of troll booking (“We need Charlotte Flair!”) that didn’t even get any meaningful follow-up. And this is besides all the Becky-has-a-crutch nonsense. I imagine the Becky/Ronda build would have been weird even if it was just that singles match. Their moment on the night after the Rumble was cool, but there was still another ten weeks to go. That’s basically what I mean. If the plan was the triple threat, just find a way to have Charlotte feud with the other champion, win and want to be in the match with Becky/Ronda and sweetens the pot for them both to accept. Instead, as you said, they did a bunch of things that literally nobody remembers besides the brawl where police had to be brought in that almost ruined everyone’s characters by making them look like goobers…besides the one segment everyone remembers.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 20, 2023 8:03:38 GMT -5
As EoE said, there were sprinkles of good in all the garbage and one of the flaws of that era was that they never really knew how to use everyone they got so for every Muppets, Hugh Jackman and A-Team (yes, I'll defend that until the day I die) episode, there's dozens of people who were there just to be there and nobody really figuring out how to mesh them with the roster and it doesn't help they only really have a week to figure that out, if that with how Vince changed things. The fact they pulled it off with The Muppets is a minor miracle. Oh yeah, one of the things I will say about this era compared to that time is that instead of going from A to B, they take a path that leads through half the alphabet before making a whole new path that people just about tolerate with genuinely no reason for it. Like, WrestleMania 35 made no more money with the three way then it did having Ronda vs. Becky, if anything it made it more confusing. Right, but even if the triple threat was meant to be the plan, they could have set that up way earlier. Even something as simple as Charlotte whining about how Fit Finlay didn’t have the authority to add Becky to the Rumble would have made more sense, rather than the whole ‘will Becky apologise???’ thing that went for weeks and made no one happy, just for a moment of troll booking (“We need Charlotte Flair!”) that didn’t even get any meaningful follow-up. And this is besides all the Becky-has-a-crutch nonsense. I imagine the Becky/Ronda build would have been weird even if it was just that singles match. Their moment on the night after the Rumble was cool, but there was still another ten weeks to go.That’s the thing. 99% of the build for the match had already been done… when it was meant to happen a couple of months earlier at Survivor Series. All that Lynch needed to do was win the Rumble to reset the timeline and reiterate the key points the next night, and that was the missing 1%. Awesome build, when’s WrestleMania? Oh… Not for another two months. F***. What DO you fill the TV time with that would’ve been satisfactory?
|
|
|
Post by cornettesracket on Jul 20, 2023 11:41:09 GMT -5
Well remember when WWE tried to turn Becky lynch heel at Summerslam 2018 ? Ha oh how we… *checks notes* laughed.
I know it’s outside the time frame but I liked 2016 even though the number of PPVs was a bit much from memory. 2017 to me was okay and yeah 2018-2019 was not good. We had that good awful and convoluted build up to WM ashen Becky won the titles. 2020 doesn’t count imo dud to the pandemic.
edit: should’ve read the last two posts and it seems I’m not alone.
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Jul 20, 2023 18:20:00 GMT -5
1995 will always be the worst year for me. Even during the 2009-10 guest host era you still had a lot of good stuff. Taker/HBK. Punk/Hardy. Cena/Batista. Rey/Jericho. Rey/Punk. Cena/Barrett. Kofi/Orton. Batista/Rey. Christian's ECW title reign. Miz's rise. Jerishow.
1995 absolutely sucks. To this day some of the worst PPVs ever are from that year. Shawn or Bret could have some good matches. That's about the only positive of that year. In fact, that would be an interesting task. Try to list the top 5-10 WWF matches of 1995 that don't feature either Shawn or Bret.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 20, 2023 18:46:14 GMT -5
1995 absolutely sucks. To this day some of the worst PPVs ever are from that year. Shawn or Bret could have some good matches. That's about the only positive of that year. In fact, that would be an interesting task. Try to list the top 5-10 WWF matches of 1995 that don't feature either Shawn or Bret. Looking at Cagematch ratings, the best five matches from 1995 to not feature Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels are: *Bull Nakano v Alundra Blayze (RAW 4/3) *The 1-2-3 Kid v Hakushi (SummerSlam) *Razor Ramon v Owen Hart (RAW 1/9) *Barry Horowitz, Bob Holly, Hakushi and Marty Jannetty v The 1-2-3 Kid, Rad Radford, Skip and Tom Prichard (Survivor Series) *The 1-2-3 Kid and Bob Holly v Bam Bam Bigelow and Tatanka (Royal Rumble) Keep in mind, on this same list, 15 of the top 20 highest rated matches have either Hart or Michaels in them, including the entire Top 8.
|
|
|
Post by theironyuppie on Jul 20, 2023 23:34:09 GMT -5
Well remember when WWE tried to turn Becky lynch heel at Summerslam 2018 ? Ha oh how we… *checks notes* laughed. I know it’s outside the time frame but I liked 2016 even though the number of PPVs was a bit much from memory. 2017 to me was okay and yeah 2018-2019 was not good. We had that good awful and convoluted build up to WM ashen Becky won the titles. 2020 doesn’t count imo dud to the pandemic. edit: should’ve read the last two posts and it seems I’m not alone. Even though they later had to retcon parts of that feud (like when they turned Becky's Summerslam attack into an inspiring moment in the lead to WM 35) Evolution had the commentary still treating Becky as the heel and referring to her 'cult-like following'.
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Jul 21, 2023 0:20:34 GMT -5
Not for me, but I think that's only because by then I wasn't watching like I had a decade earlier.
The Venn diagram from hell of Super Cena and the Guest Host Years overlapping were just too much for me to take.
Vince has no idea how a virtuous character is supposed to act, and the shows themselves were abysmal due to the hosts (barring the few that are generally liked like Bob Barker).
Just a god awful time to be a fan.
|
|
|
Post by Brickstone Kid on Jul 21, 2023 1:28:26 GMT -5
Those DX reunions featuring Hornswoggle were some of the worst things they've ever produced. That had to be their darkest hour.
|
|
|
Post by thegame415 on Jul 22, 2023 14:19:31 GMT -5
It's up there with New Generation and whatever we're calling the PG Era (I heard someone call it the Universe era, I kind of liked that).
|
|
67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,585
|
Post by 67 more on Jul 26, 2023 0:35:12 GMT -5
There was a lot of bad TV in the guest host-era, but it was mostly coherent. The period where they were just flailing around with Raw Underground, Raw After Dark, 2 out 3 falls matches... that was when all the chaos behind the scenes with Vince's endless whims spilled out onto the screen. It's remarkable they didn't lose more viewers than they did considering the show was having a breakdown. The constant 2/3 falls matches and genius ideas like the Elimination mixed tag match (meaning that the match can end via stalemate if a man from one team and a woman from the other team gets eliminated) were so forced and unnatural
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,173
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Jul 26, 2023 1:17:15 GMT -5
Just to expand, part of why 2019 was so bad was that they didn't seem to have an idea of how to make good use even of their success stories. Becky had become perhaps the biggest star in the company in late 2018/early 2019, but then the WM 35 build was confused with them seemingly unsure of whether she should be an underdog or a badass and trying to make her both, and then their big feud for her after reaching the pinnacle of winning two belts in the main-event of Wrestlemania was....a three-month feud with Lacey Evans, previously featured walking up and down the ramp each week. And Kofi's reign ended in getting squashed by Brock and some random guy appearing. That finally broke me. Then 2020 was just scummy moves off screen hitting new lows each week. Guest host era was bleak but they hadn't yet devalued everything, the streak was in tact, Jinder hadn't been WWE champion and the cursed universal title didn't exist. Propapaganda to stand up for WWE was preferable to the propaganda of Saudi sports washing. So yes it was the worst imo, previous lows felt temporary while in 2020 it didn't feel like anything would ever improve. Fair play to Roman for rebuilding the WWE title, taking the other belt out of play and making things feel meaningful again, just need a good finish to the story rather than everything ending in Brock.
|
|
|
Post by Hobby Drifter on Jul 26, 2023 1:40:55 GMT -5
I’d say the New Generation era was pretty dire, although I have some nostalgia for that period just because of my age at the time. As to more recent times, it’s hard because sometimes Raw was bad while Smackdown remained a fun show. The period when Heyman was running Raw was rough. New Generation era was pretty bad…but it also didn’t demand like six hours of your time every week. It was like the Simpsons. Past its glory days, but it’s fine to have on while you wash dishes or something.
|
|
Ozman
Unicron
Chi-Town!!!
Posts: 2,631
|
Post by Ozman on Jul 29, 2023 12:27:20 GMT -5
Gotta go with the New Generation. When Shawn and Diesel won all the gold, I stopped watching the show until 1999.
|
|
|
Post by jivesoulbrah on Jul 29, 2023 12:37:26 GMT -5
I missed the new generation era. This time period was just vince at his dirt-absolute-worst. Shit was depressing. I was 8-10 years old through 94-96, that was the era where I watched wrestling religiously. Being the young naive kid I was then, I absolutely loved all the gimmicks and matches. I remember being so hyped for the first In Your House PPV. Going back on it now as an adult is mind blowing how awful it actually was, especially seeing some RAWs being hosted in a high school gym. But at least we got Mankind/Undertaker and Bret/Austin.
|
|
Desi
Dennis Stamp
Do Not Approve
Posts: 4,522
|
Post by Desi on Jul 29, 2023 13:02:27 GMT -5
2009 remains the absolute nadir for me as a fan.
|
|
|
Post by rainandlava on Jul 31, 2023 13:31:17 GMT -5
I think the period that finally cause me to say, "I'm done with this company" was a tie between 2013-2016 (With The Authority being the absolute worst, even worse than Roman's initial push, but only just barely) and 2017-2020 (though In that case, I left after WrestleMania 34, originally to take a hiatus from WWE, but a lot of things described in the original post caused me to say "Yeah, I think I've reached my limit with this company)."
Dishonorable mention goes to The aforementioned Guest Host Era, though the Bob Barker & Muppets episodes were at least the only good ones.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 87,149
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Jul 31, 2023 14:25:30 GMT -5
The Authority era with every show opening and ending with f*** you was the straw that broke my back.
|
|
thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,731
|
Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 1, 2023 8:21:38 GMT -5
I would challenge people to go back and watch the New Generation again. Not just King of the Ring 1995 or the shows people have spent years and years trashing on podcasts and in Youtube countdowns. Like pick a random month and watch everything. It's not better than the Classic Hogan Era or Attitude Era, but it's not that bad either. It's certainly more interesting than some of the boring soulless years they've had in the three hour Raw era. I have said for years that 1994 is a sneaky pick for one of the best years the WWF/E has ever had and while 1995 had it's problems, the week to week shows aren't terrible and several of the big shows (Summerslam and Survivor Series in particular) are outstanding. The presentation style is unique and has a lot going for it. there are some great characters and wrestlers, just fewer than they needed to fill out some of these shows. The New Generation definitely has it's flaws, but the good stuff is VERY good.
|
|
clc
Unicron
Posts: 2,573
Member is Online
|
Post by clc on Aug 1, 2023 8:28:03 GMT -5
I would challenge people to go back and watch the New Generation again. Not just King of the Ring 1995 or the shows people have spent years and years trashing on podcasts and in Youtube countdowns. Like pick a random month and watch everything. It's not better than the Classic Hogan Era or Attitude Era, but it's not that bad either. It's certainly more interesting than some of the boring soulless years they've had in the three hour Raw era. I have said for years that 1994 is a sneaky pick for one of the best years the WWF/E has ever had and while 1995 had it's problems, the week to week shows aren't terrible and several of the big shows (Summerslam and Survivor Series in particular) are outstanding. The presentation style is unique and has a lot going for it. there are some great characters and wrestlers, just fewer than they needed to fill out some of these shows. The New Generation definitely has it's flaws, but the good stuff is VERY good. I appreciate the New Generation because of the OSW reviews.
I also have a soft spot for gimmicks where they have a regular job, but are also a wrestler.
|
|
|
Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 1, 2023 8:30:01 GMT -5
I would challenge people to go back and watch the New Generation again. Not just King of the Ring 1995 or the shows people have spent years and years trashing on podcasts and in Youtube countdowns. Like pick a random month and watch everything. It's not better than the Classic Hogan Era or Attitude Era, but it's not that bad either. It's certainly more interesting than some of the boring soulless years they've had in the three hour Raw era. I have said for years that 1994 is a sneaky pick for one of the best years the WWF/E has ever had and while 1995 had it's problems, the week to week shows aren't terrible and several of the big shows (Summerslam and Survivor Series in particular) are outstanding. The presentation style is unique and has a lot going for it. there are some great characters and wrestlers, just fewer than they needed to fill out some of these shows. The New Generation definitely has it's flaws, but the good stuff is VERY good. I agree, there's a lot of bad that's infamous but there's more than enough good to prevent it from even being in consideration here, in my opinion.
|
|