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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 9, 2023 11:07:32 GMT -5
Good but not great. I've made this point before but the vast majority of his best matches had stipulations attached where a lot of smoke and mirrors were used to enhance the match e.g. Street Fights, 3 Stages of Hell, Hell in a Cell, Ladder Match etc. How many great regular 1-on-1 matches has he had? Plenty. Vs Foley at KotR. Vs Undertaker at WM17. VS Rock. Vs Jericho. Vs Jeff Hardy. Vs Hogan. Triple H was an excellent worker.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,268
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Post by tirtefaa on Aug 9, 2023 11:16:14 GMT -5
He's the third wheel in the Attitude Era Austin/Rock/HHH big stars, but tbf that's no bad thing. If we're talking about guys who were there from the beginning to the end, I'd actually argue he's the 6th wheel. Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Foley and Kane all felt far more important and were more over. And that's not including guys like Bret or Jericho who weren't there the full time. That isn't to say he didn't have big moments or wasn't a big deal, but most people weren't buying a ticket to see Hunter.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Aug 9, 2023 11:17:06 GMT -5
Good but not great. I've made this point before but the vast majority of his best matches had stipulations attached where a lot of smoke and mirrors were used to enhance the match e.g. Street Fights, 3 Stages of Hell, Hell in a Cell, Ladder Match etc. How many great regular 1-on-1 matches has he had? Plenty. Vs Foley at KotR. Vs Undertaker at WM17. VS Rock. Vs Jericho. Vs Jeff Hardy. Vs Hogan. Triple H was an excellent worker. The match with Foley at KOTR didn't stand out much to my mind although I haven't watched KOTR '97 in a long while so maybe I need to revisit it.
Taker at WM17 I don't count as a regular match despite being billed as such because it felt like half the match was spent brawling in the crowd.
Which matches with Rock and Jericho are you referring to?
I'll give you Jeff Hardy, their matches in 2008 were good. And I watched his match with Hogan at Backlash recently, it was average. Unless you're referring to the rematch on SmackDown, in which case I would need to rewatch it.
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 9, 2023 11:26:58 GMT -5
Plenty. Vs Foley at KotR. Vs Undertaker at WM17. VS Rock. Vs Jericho. Vs Jeff Hardy. Vs Hogan. Triple H was an excellent worker. The match with Foley at KOTR didn't stand out much to my mind although I haven't watched KOTR '97 in a long while so maybe I need to revisit it.
Taker at WM17 I don't count as a regular match despite being billed as such because it felt like half the match was spent brawling in the crowd.
Which matches with Rock and Jericho are you referring to?
I'll give you Jeff Hardy, their matches in 2008 were good. And I watched his match with Hogan at Backlash recently, it was average. Unless you're referring to the rematch on SmackDown, in which case I would need to rewatch it.
I mean match quality is subjective really. I enjoyed the Backlash match with Hogan. But Hogan's in my top 5, so... The Rock vs HHH at Backlash is a regular match. I also forgot vs Daniel Bryan at WM 30. PROBABLY HHH'S last GREAT match. I mean, "good matches" are different for different people. I don't like Okada/Omega (love them against others, not each other) and I think Savage/Steamboat is incredibly overrated (Savage is also in my top 5 ) So .. . You might think all of his matches suck lol. It's up to debate.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Aug 9, 2023 11:35:53 GMT -5
Good but not great. I've made this point before but the vast majority of his best matches had stipulations attached where a lot of smoke and mirrors were used to enhance the match e.g. Street Fights, 3 Stages of Hell, Hell in a Cell, Ladder Match etc. How many great regular 1-on-1 matches has he had? Plenty. Vs Foley at KotR. Vs Undertaker at WM17. VS Rock. Vs Jericho. Vs Jeff Hardy. Vs Hogan. Triple H was an excellent worker. The TAKA match on Raw! That sonuvagun actually had me thinking TAKA was going to win! I’d say he’s not as great as WWE presents him, not as bad as a lot of Internet fans think he was. Not an all-time great, one of the many many wrestlers in the “Very Good” category.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 9, 2023 12:27:07 GMT -5
From 1998-2001 he was one of the best pro wrestlers ever. I still think his 2000 is the best calendar year any wrestler has ever had.
Beyond that, extremely inconsistent. Equal amounts of excellent matches and boring clunkers.
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A Little Doo Doo
Salacious Crumb
An unconventional man with unconventional methods.
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Aug 9, 2023 12:35:19 GMT -5
I think WM 30 vs. Bryan is the only singles match I've enjoyed of his from 2012 up until his retirement, but he had a bunch of classics before that. The Rumble and No Way Out matches with Cactus Jack and the tag match with Austin vs. Benoit and Jericho rank pretty high on my list of all time favorites. Then you also have the ladder, Backlash and Judgment Day matches with The Rock, Last Man Standing vs. Jericho, SummerSlam against HBK, WM XX, 3 Stages of Hell with Austin and many others. I think he's an all time great, even if he's a little bit overrated by the company and he's probably not in my top 10 personal favorites.
I'll always have a soft spot for that run from late 1999 until the first quad injury. I was a kid at the time and I hated his guts. It's still my favorite period in company history.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,978
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 9, 2023 12:37:02 GMT -5
He is well and truly rated, since he gets such praise and such criticism that it keeps me from thinking he's getting too much of either, exactly.
He had a lot of plodding matches, but he also had a lot of classics.
Triple H vs Bryan is one of the best matches in WM's recent history, and better than most of Bryan's WWE output, even if I feel Bryan's topped it since leaving,
Triple H vs Rock are Rock's best WWE matches to me because the two had tremendous chemistry, and Foley vs Triple H was basically always great. Austin and Triple H also tended to be very solid.
So, yeah, if someone tells me they got bored of him, I agree in that he had a lot of matches that could have, and should have, been a good 5-10 minutes shorter in his late career, if not more time cut off, but if they say he was never good, I also know to dismiss that as kind of bullshit.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 9, 2023 12:49:16 GMT -5
Good but not great. I've made this point before but the vast majority of his best matches had stipulations attached where a lot of smoke and mirrors were used to enhance the match e.g. Street Fights, 3 Stages of Hell, Hell in a Cell, Ladder Match etc. How many great regular 1-on-1 matches has he had? He was great in the Attitude Era and they almost always had gimmicks on their top matches so that makes it tough just based on scarcity alone. Then in his later years he would only come back for a few matches per year, many of them with gimmicks attached. KOTR 97 vs. Mankind Fully Loaded 98 vs. Rock Backlash 2000 vs. Rock Judgement Day 2000 vs. Rock No Mercy 2000 vs. Benoit Rumble 2001 vs. Angle Raw Dec 2003 vs. HBK The 2004 triple threats vs. HBK and Benoit Raw March 2004 vs. Shelton Vengeance 2004 vs. Benoit Raw Ironman 2004 vs. Benoit Taboo Tuesday 2004 vs. HBK Wrestlemania 22 vs. Cena Backlash 2006 vs. Edge and Cena Raw December 2007 vs. Flair NOC 2008 vs. Cena No Mercy 2008 vs. Jeff Cyber Sunday 2008 vs. Jeff Armageddon 2008 vs. Edge and Jeff Couple of really good matches on Raw vs. Cena in 2009 Survivor Series 2009 vs. Cena and HBK Wrestlemania 30 vs. Bryan Roadblock 2016 vs. Ambrose
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Post by darbus alan on Aug 9, 2023 13:07:17 GMT -5
Not an all-time great, but still a great. Not as good as WWE kayfabe would paint him as, but not nearly as bad as his most vocal detractors say he was.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 12,467
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Post by Facetious on Aug 9, 2023 13:52:57 GMT -5
I like the guy, but Triple H is probably the worst Mania performer ever. The amount of mediocre to dogshit matches he's had a Mania is insane. Even if you try to perfume the Dookie smell with cologne (WM20/21), you're still left with the overwhelming scent from the Orton, Booker T, Reigns, Lesnar, and Jericho matches.
I hate using the B+ shit, but he's a B+ that was presented as an S-tier for 20 years.
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 9, 2023 14:42:19 GMT -5
I like the guy, but Triple H is probably the worst Mania performer ever. The amount of mediocre to dogshit matches he's had a Mania is insane. Even if you try to perfume the Dookie smell with cologne (WM20/21), you're still left with the overwhelming scent from the Orton, Booker T, Reigns, Lesnar, and Jericho matches. I hate using the B+ shit, but he's a B+ that was presented as an S-tier for 20 years. I think the Reigns match is actually pretty good. And vs Jericho could have been the greatest match ever and it wouldn't have mattered. Hogan/Rock should have been the main event.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 9, 2023 15:02:47 GMT -5
I think the Reigns match is actually pretty good. The crowd were dead on their feet due to how long the show was and that most of the matches ended with the heel going over, and the loudest cheer was when Roman speared Steph. The match was also slow and plodding, which was at odds with the story told as Trips had put Reigns in hospital a month beforehand and the match by rights should have been a wild brawl. No surprise that the match was an absolute wet fart due to all of that.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,382
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Post by tafkaga on Aug 9, 2023 15:11:30 GMT -5
Never cared much for him. Always felt like a guy who got a spot because there were limited options, and then kept it because he was Steph's husband. I never bought into his presentation as one of the elites, and it just got more nauseating the older he got. By just about any metric, I think he's just average. . That's exactly how I feel about Shawn Michaels. HBK to me is the single most overrated wrestler of all time. I agree that Shawn is more overrated than HHH, but I also believe Shawn is much better than HHH.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 9, 2023 15:22:26 GMT -5
Better than his detractors say he is, not as good as he/the Company say he is.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 9, 2023 15:30:54 GMT -5
Better than his detractors say he is, not as good as he/the Company say he is. I would add to that when he was at his best (2000) dude was as good as he and the company said he was, and when he was at his worst (late 2002/2003), he was as bad as his detractors said he was.
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Post by HIM on Aug 9, 2023 15:54:30 GMT -5
A-.
He ain't a Shawn or a Bret but in his in-ring prime and even his ability to adjust afterwards, he's dope. He's not some God like the company presents him all the time though and part of that is due to that injury. Still I gotta give him respect because that man was cooking out dope matches later on that he had no right to and part of that is due to him figuring things out.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Aug 9, 2023 16:02:29 GMT -5
Capable of being amazing and has lots of greatness on his resume, but his and WWE's desire to present him as SSS+ rank GOAT level hurt him in the long run, as he constantly got put at the top of the card and the top of WWE just even in a constant sense on screen and off (like how he was generally the ending shot of company video packages, or basically the whole greatest smartest funniest sexiest man to ever live treatment, etc). For every A+ match he had, he had 12 D- farts that regardless of quality ate up 40 min to an hour of a show each time, usually taking the main event spot.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,852
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 9, 2023 16:27:39 GMT -5
Probably the best example of "High Ceiling, Low Floor" in WWE history.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,953
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Post by XIII on Aug 9, 2023 16:34:04 GMT -5
For a few years he was one of the best technicians in the world and was still a very good wrestler after that.
Had the misfortune of being the focus immediately after the Rock and Stone Cold were the guys and the stigma of being an office guy that was always pushed above everyone else.
Underrated for a while. Then rated just right as an elite. Then overrated. Then massively overrated towards the end.
His 20+ minute promos to open every show every week were a chore.
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