UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 8, 2023 21:09:44 GMT -5
we haven't seen the payoff to any of them have we?
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Sept 8, 2023 21:11:24 GMT -5
we haven't seen the payoff to any of them have we? Well, one, we have, because the Usos, Bron, and Bianca all lost theirs, and two... Does that matter? If you're not enjoying the ride in a story then the destination isn't going to matter.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Fry's dog Seymour
Sponsored by Arizona Green Tea/Peanuts But Only At Baseball Stadiums/Biscuits Cat Adoption Agency
Posts: 24,497
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 8, 2023 21:22:51 GMT -5
we haven't seen the payoff to any of them have we? Well, one, we have, because the Usos, Bron, and Bianca all lost theirs, and two... Does that matter? If you're not enjoying the ride in a story then the destination isn't going to matter. better way to put it is that i forgot any of those happened so take that as you will lmao i'm at the point of craving one month long hotshot reigns
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Sept 8, 2023 21:26:37 GMT -5
This feels like one of those loaded questions you already know the answer to before you click on the thread I like Gunther's, but Roman's is the template of how not to do it. His character feels important, but the titles don't. If anything they're diminished by the way he Jinder Mahal's every title defense. Being blown on commentary for 2 hours doesn't change any of that. Bianca's run was alright until she was Super Cena-ing Damage Control 1 on 3. Bron's blah run, and NXT feeling like Saved By the Bell on crack, soured me on things on that brand. Yeah for me the writing has to back up the reign. I don't mind if it's long, just give me good storytelling. Like with OC in AEW, he could have held the title for another year and I wouldn't have complained.
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Post by darbus alan on Sept 8, 2023 23:00:43 GMT -5
At first I thought this was about Triple H's reigns as a wrestler and was really confused when "Raw's Women Champion" was mentioned.
I don't really consider this a booking trope of Triple H, so much as WWE as a whole. There's been a lot of long-term reigns since the early 10's. Like Punk, Styles, Lesnar, etc. have all had incredibly long reigns and they eventually got very stale before Triple H was booking Raw and Smackdown.
I don't think long reigns are a bad thing as a rule, though. Like Gunther's reign as IC Champ is amazing and has done a lot to revitalize and re-establish the title after years, if not decades, of mediocrity. It's just a question of knowing when the reign has reached a natural conclusion.
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schma
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Post by schma on Sept 9, 2023 11:48:00 GMT -5
Not too long ago, people largely despised the hot-potato championship reigns. Now, it's flop-flopped. I mentioned it previously, but the main title being held onto for a long period of time makes the secondary title seem like the thing to go after. Problem is, we have a secondary title holder that's held it for long periods of time as well. And for a time, both IC and the US Title were being put over on commentary. Now, it's just the IC title whereas the US Title has fallen into the background. Personally, I don't think championship reigns should go any longer than 18 months unless it has a serious purpose. Reigns' endless championship reign served it's purpose by Year 2, now it's just unnecessary. Gunther is on the short list of best in the world, and the booking has been solid, so I can rock with his run with the IC Title. H is clearly an NWA fan and it shows. But he could stand to temper the extra-long reigns with a few short-term runs as well every now and again. Generally when the question of long reigns vs hot potato has come up around here, the general consensus is that neither extreme is the answer. Most of us would like to see a mix. Hot potato can be exciting at times but like character death in a comic book, if you go to that well too many times, it loses all effect.
For too long we've been taught Wrestlemania is the only date on the calendar that matters for WWE and many times I've seen, x match has to happen at Mania, no other venue/show is epic enough. They need to get away from that. A big part of why the Monday night wars were so damn exciting was because anything truly could happen. Now, outside of a couple nights a year, there is none of that feeling. They've definitely overdone it with the long reigns these past couple years and we need a bit of a breather.
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schma
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Post by schma on Sept 9, 2023 11:57:22 GMT -5
we haven't seen the payoff to any of them have we? Well, one, we have, because the Usos, Bron, and Bianca all lost theirs, and two... Does that matter? If you're not enjoying the ride in a story then the destination isn't going to matter. I think at one point or another many of the detractors were enjoying the ride, the problem is that at some point, they have to get to the fireworks factory. There also has to be some progress.
I'm reminded of the late 90s when I was a teenager. All my buddies loved Dragonball Z. They talked about it so much that despite only ever seeing one episode, I know many of the major storylines and characters. So one day I decided to give the show a chance. It must be good if my friends were this psyched about it. The episode consisted of Goku powering up while Cell watched then flipped to some of his friends racing there and talking about how they needed to get there as soon as possible. Apart from a 30 second scene, the episode was literally just switching between Goku powering up and his friends talking about how they needed to quickly find him. It was the definition of a filler episode. My friends told me that often the last few episodes of an arc are really exciting and fast paced and that's great. However, when 90% of your story is just filler where nothing really happens, it's difficult to enjoy the ride. That's where a lot of these longer runs end up. Exciting moments spaced out by tons of filler.
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Soultastic
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Post by Soultastic on Sept 9, 2023 12:48:38 GMT -5
I've been loving Gunther's reign and, while I think it lasted a bit too long, I generally loved Bianca's reign too. Everything else has dragged.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Sept 9, 2023 13:19:37 GMT -5
In general, I think the longest a reign should last is 6 months, and even that is pushing it.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Sept 9, 2023 14:48:11 GMT -5
There's no easy answer. To me, what makes a reign work is not just the number of days, but the quality and variety of opponents, the quality and variety of title matches, and the creativity of angles to lead into the matches, and how all that mixes together. Brock Lesnar, for example, had had long runs with belts, but he didn't have a lot of matches, he didn't have a lot of variety of opponents, and the angles deflated when he wouldn't be on TV weeks or months at a time.
For another example, I really like Reigns' run overall, especially when the heel turn is exactly what he needed to stay relevant and fresh, but so many of his matches has been flat when you know there's going to be a) a ref bump, b) a low blow, and/or c) until recently, some interference from Jimmy, Jey, and/or Solo. I still think Cody winning at Wrestlemania 39 was the time to end Reigns' title run.
In comparison, I think Orange Cassidy as the International champion in AEW has been a better run than Reigns' in a shorter amount of time. He defended the belt often, only a couple of rematches (and even then they weren't back-to-back affairs), he had a great mix of opponents, he got over as much as he got the belt over, he had other stuff to do like multi-man matches to keep the run fresh, and his reign ended when it needed to.
I like the *idea* of Roman Reigns-esque title runs, but I like the *reality* of Orange Cassidy-esque title runs that much more.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 9, 2023 15:04:08 GMT -5
I always say the same thing, hhh is an nwa fan that is inspired by their long title reigns but fails to adjust it for the amount of hours of content WWE put out in a year.
It can work, I think if like Gunther and liked OC's but there has to be a feeling the next defence might be their last, not a feeling this is the status quo until WM.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Sept 9, 2023 15:33:31 GMT -5
When the booking is there I don't have a problem with long reigns, but for a lot of these reigns it's just guys checking off dates on a calendar rather then any real, meaningful storytelling going on. Roman's is particularly horrible simply because him losing it before WrestleMania just feels unthinkable now, so the next six-to-seven months of his reign just feels pointless no matter who he's against or what the angle is. How do you make his title defenses feel compelling when they just come off as busywork?
While I'm not advocating for the return of Vince Russo/car crash/Attitude Era style booking, at least not long term, I really would love to see them hot shotting some of these belts around for awhile just to do something different and build up some excitement.
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