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Post by The Rick Jericho on Oct 21, 2023 16:17:09 GMT -5
We've seen the long tenures of guys like Roman and Cena for the recent generation.
But when you compare it to previous runs where guys had shorter main event runs, due to other reasons such as injuries, hollywood, etc....
But when is too long, too much for a talent to constantly be in the main event? If the same group is always up top, this doesn't give the younger talent a chance to move up a card.
So what is your rule of thumb for the main event scene? Guys like Kofi, Drew, Orton for example all easily transitioned back to the mid-card without any issue during their tenures.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Oct 21, 2023 19:19:20 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene?
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 22, 2023 8:16:04 GMT -5
Whenever the company has new draws to push.
Of course, every smart company should always be trying to groom a new generation even while their business is hot, but there is such a thing as depushing a superstar too soon. Basically what happened to Goldberg in WCW.
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4real
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Post by 4real on Oct 22, 2023 8:49:47 GMT -5
Somebody like Sheamus was pushed so hard so fast people got sick of him. The Bryan stuff in 2012 killed him right off the bat. By 2013 people were sick of him as a main eventer even though he was still decent in ring.
His 2015 title run wasn’t wanted really by many people at all even though he dethroned an unliked babyface in Roman. By the time he was over enough again to warrant a title match (after Clash at the Castle) WWE had other priorities and wanted to move on. Which is a shame because I think people actually wanted Sheamus v Roman last year opposed to having little interest in 2015. Even his hopes of being IC champ seem over and the ship has sailed.
Finding his niche in the tag division from 2016-19 with Cesaro was a much needed diversion at the time as well.
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Post by Hypnosis on Oct 22, 2023 10:14:05 GMT -5
Somebody like Sheamus was pushed so hard so fast people got sick of him. The Bryan stuff in 2012 killed him right off the bat. By 2013 people were sick of him as a main eventer even though he was still decent in ring. His 2015 title run wasn’t wanted really by many people at all even though he dethroned an unliked babyface in Roman. By the time he was over enough again to warrant a title match (after Clash at the Castle) WWE had other priorities and wanted to move on. Which is a shame because I think people actually wanted Sheamus v Roman last year opposed to having little interest in 2015. Even his hopes of being IC champ seem over and the ship has sailed. Finding his niche in the tag division from 2016-19 with Cesaro was a much needed diversion at the time as well. Sheamus beating Cena for the WWE title in a Tables match by a fluke accident didn't help either. |
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Post by Aceorton on Oct 23, 2023 11:56:57 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? This times 1,000. It drives me crazy when former world champions "settle" for going after the IC or U.S. title. It not only devalues the performer but also makes the secondary title look like a consolation prize instead of a badge of legitimacy for a developing star. You should never drop down a tier unless it's a Ric Flair situation where you're in your late 50s and it's a novelty that you're still going after this long. Main-event guys can be given other feuds that don't require them to lose status when they're not currently in a title program. |
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Post by dangerousdanpotato on Oct 27, 2023 6:41:34 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? This times 1,000. It drives me crazy when former world champions "settle" for going after the IC or U.S. title. It not only devalues the performer but also makes the secondary title look like a consolation prize instead of a badge of legitimacy for a developing star. You should never drop down a tier unless it's a Ric Flair situation where you're in your late 50s and it's a novelty that you're still going after this long. Main-event guys can be given other feuds that don't require them to lose status when they're not currently in a title program. This has been one of my biggest issues with the modern product (by modern I mean 2001 onwards when HHH won the IC title from Jeff Hardy). Downward mobility! It smacks of poor booking. During the golden era there was a clear pecking order and guys would advance up the ladder and a select few would become World Champ. Far too many "World" champions have been created with nothing to do subsequently. The band-aid solution has been to create more mid-card belts, and then more World belts. As you say, they should be booked into meaningful feuds. Think of a guy like Randy Savage who after losing the title maintained high-level feuds with other guys on that same tier as him: Dusty Rhodes, Ultimate Warrior, Jake Roberts. Just simmering under the main event ready to cycle back in again. Not going after the IC title. By crowding out the mid-card with your former main eventers it gives your current guys that are coming up nothing to do. Again, imagine Macho King had become IC champion, we'd have missed out on Rick Rude's and Mr. Perfect's reigns. Right now - should Rey Mysterio be US champion? Does he need it? Is it doing anything for the belt? LA Knight could be holding that thing. |
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 27, 2023 6:56:34 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? This times 1,000. It drives me crazy when former world champions "settle" for going after the IC or U.S. title. It not only devalues the performer but also makes the secondary title look like a consolation prize instead of a badge of legitimacy for a developing star. You should never drop down a tier unless it's a Ric Flair situation where you're in your late 50s and it's a novelty that you're still going after this long. Main-event guys can be given other feuds that don't require them to lose status when they're not currently in a title program. I mean, it's not that new a thing. Sammartino had a short I.C. title feud with Randy Savage. |
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Post by Bo Rida on Oct 27, 2023 8:54:35 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? I think having multiple world titles since then has complicated things. They need more people in the later Undertaker and HBK special attraction status. A fued with them could still be semi main event tier, especially at wm. It was a lateral move not one down the card. They try with some of the part timers but it's not the same. |
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Post by Urn Anderson on Oct 27, 2023 9:23:04 GMT -5
WWE has a tendency to go "all hail your new god" with some people straight out of the gate. This leads to people's TV age being much greater than their actual tenure, as people get very tired of them very quickly. Someone mentioned Sheamus - he debuted in 2009, and by just 2013, people were getting absolutely sick of him to the point that he was practically irreparable in the main event scene. So I'd say it has a lot to do with how hard they're pushed and how quickly people get tired of that.
But, barring the WWE push machine, I'd say they can be bumped down when they have nothing left to prove and are just embraced by the crowd solely for being a legend. Cena is in a good spot for this right now, as was HBK at the end of his career and Flair when he was in the IC title picture. He's not the focus of the show, but he's still a draw, still moves merch, and his primary focus is just to elevate the people he works with.
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Post by Aceorton on Oct 27, 2023 10:45:35 GMT -5
This times 1,000. It drives me crazy when former world champions "settle" for going after the IC or U.S. title. It not only devalues the performer but also makes the secondary title look like a consolation prize instead of a badge of legitimacy for a developing star. You should never drop down a tier unless it's a Ric Flair situation where you're in your late 50s and it's a novelty that you're still going after this long. Main-event guys can be given other feuds that don't require them to lose status when they're not currently in a title program. I mean, it's not that new a thing. Sammartino had a short I.C. title feud with Randy Savage. Sammartino was also mostly retired at the time, and they didn't actually give him the belt. He was a special attraction because he was Bruno (trying to avenge Steamboat, I believe). It just happened that Savage was IC champion at the time. Bruno had a similar feud with Piper in '86. A better example might be Pedro Morales, who held the IC title twice about a decade after being world champ. I wonder how that felt to fans at the time. |
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Post by salz4life on Oct 27, 2023 10:54:57 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? The first time I felt like Austin lost a LITTLE steam was going into Wrestlemania 18.... the Hall feud just didn't work and the match was just kind of there. It was fine because both Austin and Hall are good in-ring talents but the program was just meh. Just a couple months later (it was before KOTR I think) was when he walked out. |
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Post by ToyfareMark on Oct 28, 2023 16:07:53 GMT -5
I mean, it's not that new a thing. Sammartino had a short I.C. title feud with Randy Savage. Sammartino was also mostly retired at the time, and they didn't actually give him the belt. He was a special attraction because he was Bruno (trying to avenge Steamboat, I believe). It just happened that Savage was IC champion at the time. Bruno had a similar feud with Piper in '86. A better example might be Pedro Morales, who held the IC title twice about a decade after being world champ. I wonder how that felt to fans at the time. This was also only done in the Northeast. |
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Post by tirtefaa on Oct 29, 2023 19:10:14 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? This times 1,000. It drives me crazy when former world champions "settle" for going after the IC or U.S. title. It not only devalues the performer but also makes the secondary title look like a consolation prize instead of a badge of legitimacy for a developing star. You should never drop down a tier unless it's a Ric Flair situation where you're in your late 50s and it's a novelty that you're still going after this long. Main-event guys can be given other feuds that don't require them to lose status when they're not currently in a title program. And even then, Flair winning the Intercontinental title was such a waste. One of the worst champions ever, in my opinion. |
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Oct 29, 2023 19:56:54 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? I think it's gotten harder as the business has gotten smarkier, and that's made things both better and worse. On the one hand, less feuds over ridiculous shit that are still pushed as a big deal. On the other hand, have to basically go to HBK v. Jericho levels of personal animosity to make it feel like a big deal without a title involved. Can only up the ante so often before the audience gets desensitized. |
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schma
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Post by schma on Oct 30, 2023 0:09:24 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? The first time I felt like Austin lost a LITTLE steam was going into Wrestlemania 18.... the Hall feud just didn't work and the match was just kind of there. It was fine because both Austin and Hall are good in-ring talents but the program was just meh. Just a couple months later (it was before KOTR I think) was when he walked out. A big part of this is that Hall always felt a step below Hogan and Nash. I remember all my friends and I feeling like Hall was a waste of time for Austin. I get Nash was injured, but that was a huge downgrade. This might seem odd to say given that Hall was one of the original 3. However, he could never keep his demons in check long enough in WCW to feel like he measured up to the others. I almost feel like Austin would have been better served feuding with a WWE guy once Nash was injured. |
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Post by Renslayer on Oct 30, 2023 11:13:45 GMT -5
They need to make important feuds outside titles. Did Austin,Rock,Taker,HHH,Foley,Angle etc ever feel like they weren't main event stars in 99-2001 even when they weren't in the world title scene? The first time I felt like Austin lost a LITTLE steam was going into Wrestlemania 18.... the Hall feud just didn't work and the match was just kind of there. It was fine because both Austin and Hall are good in-ring talents but the program was just meh. Just a couple months later (it was before KOTR I think) was when he walked out. To be fair, they offered austin hogan as a mania match but he said no since he wanted nothing to do with hulk at that point in time. |
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