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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 27, 2023 13:01:26 GMT -5
Honestly, AEW has pretty perfectly used Danhausen. Don’t send that cat out to be a credible wrestler, people are happy to just see him for 5 minutes and maybe say something wacky. Kinda like how people look at RTruth these days, although Truth is a way better wrestler then Danhausen could ever hope to be haha I’m amazed he hasn’t gotten his own “Talk Show” to get wrestlers and angles over. Wasn’t the basis and inspiration of his character partly Conan O’Brien? “Caricature of Conan” is absolutely a big inspiration of the gimmick
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,737
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Nov 27, 2023 13:02:05 GMT -5
Which company is the titanic in your scenario? The one not hitching their wagons to indy darlings and guys who have actually drawn money in wrestling. If you honestly think that none of the Elite have drawn money then you are willfully trying to bend reality. They were literally the first non WWE people since WCW closed to have best selling merchandise, have a wrestling show draw over 10k and on the drawing power of all involved were able to start the second major promotion in North America. These types of takes are pure bs and one of the reasons I hate interacting with certain wrestling “fans” these days. Don’t like them? Fine. But stop acting like AEW is filled with people who haven’t drawn. That they didn’t just get 11k to a ppv. Dying promotions and non draws don’t do what they are doing on a weekly and monthly basis.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Nov 27, 2023 13:05:47 GMT -5
I guarantee you, even if the AEW controversy didn't happen, there still would be the disdain towards him for going back to WWE. I mean, people were bitching when he was on the WWE Backstage show in 2021, calling him the same buzzwords, "hypocrite, no morals, how can you go back to the company that almost killed you." People seem to think that CM Punk is this manifestation of everything they hate about WWE. PG, John Cena, Sport's Entertainment, everything they hate about it, they put into him because he's supposed to be this rebel that hate's all of that. When, in reality, from the "Pipe bomb" up until he left, he was just a WWE Superstar. He acted as a face and a heel according to what WWE wanted him to do. He had that goofy love triangle storyline with Daniel Bryan and AJ Lee while he was a face, and acted like a smug asshole when he was a heel, running away from the good guys like Ryback and John Cena. He lost his 400 plus day title reign to The Rock, lost to Undertaker at WrestleMania, lost to Brock Lesnar, and was putting over The Shield when he left. CM Punk was a star, on talk shows and celebrity shows. I never say the "he HATES the WWE system," during that time. So where id it come from, the Colt Cobana podcast when it was shortly after he left, and emotions were sky high? When he was in AEW? Because him bashing WWE in AEW wasn't shocking at all, he whole character was "disgruntle WWE star." He has to, just like all the other former WWE stars have to, just like Edge said, "to get a cheap pop." Judging by the discourse and tribalism that's even on this topic alone, it's what the AEW fans wanted to hear. And, if his ego is a massive and people say it is, do you really think he would just fade away after his untimely exit from AEW? I mean, once he was fired from AEW, it was only a matter of when, not if, he'll be back in WWE. Then Survivor Series was in Chicago, then the teases started, and it all clicked. Now, people are actively angry at him, acting like he betrayed them, when in reality Phil Brooks is not your friend, you don't know him personally. Now, if you excuse me, I'm going to watch his return for the 25th time. In the simplest terms, it's because he largely built his fame as the "voice of the voiceless" champion of the little guy who stood up to the WWE machine and carved a path to prominence for guys who didn't fit the traditional "WWE mold" and was perceived as being one of the first people to successfully push back against WWE's notorious locker room bullying. There's a lot of people who are *extremely* passionate wrestling fans because they find community and acceptance in the fandom that they might not get in their personal/private/professional lives. Whether it was fair or not, from about 2007-2022, Punk was an icon for the outcasts. Then, in AEW, he became the locker room bully. He became the guy who demanded that the company revolve around him. He became the guy who would step on the little guy in the name of lining his own pockets, just like he claimed Triple H did to him. He became the very thing that he was always viewed as the literal antithesis of. So, obviously, there were a lot of people who felt betrayed by that. I think that's perfectly fair, given everything that went down and how Punk always portrayed himself. Where you're not wrong though, is that despite what the wrestling internet seems like sometimes, I don't think that the kind of wrestling fan who takes something that a wrestler they don't actually know (and, honestly, is potentially playing a fictional version of themselves at all times) does personally is an extreme minority of fans. I think that a lot of people, even many of us who think Punk is an immature douchebag who probably didn't deserve this third chance, are going to tune in in hopes that the story that is told on television is entertaining. Other people may not be interested, because of how big of an immature douche they think he is. Others, still, may simply not care about the backstage drama at all and just be excited to see one of their old favorites back in WWE. No one is right, and no one is wrong.
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J is Justice
Patti Mayonnaise
Will now be grateful.
Hi.
Posts: 31,794
Member is Online
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Post by J is Justice on Nov 27, 2023 13:20:30 GMT -5
The RAW thread's gonna be packed tonight. it’s gonna be really funny seeing a bunch of new people get used to all the profile picture posting lmao And more people to bully A Little Doo Doo .
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Post by drougfree on Nov 27, 2023 13:25:23 GMT -5
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,852
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 27, 2023 13:31:24 GMT -5
I guarantee you, even if the AEW controversy didn't happen, there still would be the disdain towards him for going back to WWE. I mean, people were bitching when he was on the WWE Backstage show in 2021, calling him the same buzzwords, "hypocrite, no morals, how can you go back to the company that almost killed you." People seem to think that CM Punk is this manifestation of everything they hate about WWE. PG, John Cena, Sport's Entertainment, everything they hate about it, they put into him because he's supposed to be this rebel that hate's all of that. When, in reality, from the "Pipe bomb" up until he left, he was just a WWE Superstar. He acted as a face and a heel according to what WWE wanted him to do. He had that goofy love triangle storyline with Daniel Bryan and AJ Lee while he was a face, and acted like a smug asshole when he was a heel, running away from the good guys like Ryback and John Cena. He lost his 400 plus day title reign to The Rock, lost to Undertaker at WrestleMania, lost to Brock Lesnar, and was putting over The Shield when he left. CM Punk was a star, on talk shows and celebrity shows. I never say the "he HATES the WWE system," during that time. So where id it come from, the Colt Cobana podcast when it was shortly after he left, and emotions were sky high? When he was in AEW? Because him bashing WWE in AEW wasn't shocking at all, he whole character was "disgruntle WWE star." He has to, just like all the other former WWE stars have to, just like Edge said, "to get a cheap pop." Judging by the discourse and tribalism that's even on this topic alone, it's what the AEW fans wanted to hear. And, if his ego is a massive and people say it is, do you really think he would just fade away after his untimely exit from AEW? I mean, once he was fired from AEW, it was only a matter of when, not if, he'll be back in WWE. Then Survivor Series was in Chicago, then the teases started, and it all clicked. Now, people are actively angry at him, acting like he betrayed them, when in reality Phil Brooks is not your friend, you don't know him personally. Now, if you excuse me, I'm going to watch his return for the 25th time. Part of it is that from the beginning, there was a narrative that nobody in charge actually wanted him in WWE except Heyman, who was running OVW at the time. And that the company wanted to give him humiliating gimmicks like a deaf wrestler that can't speak clearly (thus nullifying what most people saw as his biggest strength).
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Post by 06vwgti on Nov 27, 2023 13:42:10 GMT -5
I guarantee you, even if the AEW controversy didn't happen, there still would be the disdain towards him for going back to WWE. I mean, people were bitching when he was on the WWE Backstage show in 2021, calling him the same buzzwords, "hypocrite, no morals, how can you go back to the company that almost killed you." People seem to think that CM Punk is this manifestation of everything they hate about WWE. PG, John Cena, Sport's Entertainment, everything they hate about it, they put into him because he's supposed to be this rebel that hate's all of that. When, in reality, from the "Pipe bomb" up until he left, he was just a WWE Superstar. He acted as a face and a heel according to what WWE wanted him to do. He had that goofy love triangle storyline with Daniel Bryan and AJ Lee while he was a face, and acted like a smug asshole when he was a heel, running away from the good guys like Ryback and John Cena. He lost his 400 plus day title reign to The Rock, lost to Undertaker at WrestleMania, lost to Brock Lesnar, and was putting over The Shield when he left. CM Punk was a star, on talk shows and celebrity shows. I never say the "he HATES the WWE system," during that time. So where id it come from, the Colt Cobana podcast when it was shortly after he left, and emotions were sky high? When he was in AEW? Because him bashing WWE in AEW wasn't shocking at all, he whole character was "disgruntle WWE star." He has to, just like all the other former WWE stars have to, just like Edge said, "to get a cheap pop." Judging by the discourse and tribalism that's even on this topic alone, it's what the AEW fans wanted to hear. And, if his ego is a massive and people say it is, do you really think he would just fade away after his untimely exit from AEW? I mean, once he was fired from AEW, it was only a matter of when, not if, he'll be back in WWE. Then Survivor Series was in Chicago, then the teases started, and it all clicked. Now, people are actively angry at him, acting like he betrayed them, when in reality Phil Brooks is not your friend, you don't know him personally. Now, if you excuse me, I'm going to watch his return for the 25th time. Part of it is that from the beginning, there was a narrative that nobody in charge actually wanted him in WWE except Heyman, who was running OVW at the time. And that the company wanted to give him humiliating gimmicks like a deaf wrestler that can't speak clearly (thus nullifying what most people saw as his biggest strength). The weekly newz stories on cm punk has the nuclear heatz never went away with him... Starting to wonder if he was the source of all that reporting back then...
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,267
Member is Online
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Post by tirtefaa on Nov 27, 2023 13:43:56 GMT -5
Here's another thing...
I don't know if there are actually any losers in this, if everyone focuses on what they need to focus on;
First off, Punk has everything to prove after finding failure in many other areas that aren't WWE. If you look at everything he's done outside of the company since then, it's created a sour taste in people's mouths; UFC, AEW, his comic thing...even the Cabana podcast looks bad in hindsight given their falling out.
WWE on the other hand is going to look good no matter what.
AEW is going to look weak in the short sight of things, but you have to remember that WWF did too any time they lost a big star to WCW. Again, in the span of less than 5 years, they lost Hogan, Savage, Nash, Luger and Bret to their competition. Even their top midcard guys like Hall, Hennig, Jarrett and Bulldog jumped ship. Then you have Shawn retiring. All their big names were gone other than Undertaker. But WWF focused on what could set themselves apart and played the long game. Despite not having many major stars, they helped create a lot of stars. AEW can really follow in they vein, given that they have a lot of strong talent right now... don't chase big names that are winding down their career, you don't need them, and it won't make you any bigger. It reminds me of what TNA did for so many years, before they stepped back and just focused on what they had instead...and guess what? The product got better. So only advice I can give for Tony is to suck it up, ignore what WWE is doing, and try to put on your best product with what you have. You will eventually build an audience.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,545
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 27, 2023 13:47:48 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it being discussed, but when Punk showed up at Raw earlier this year, didn't he and Miz bury the hatchet? That's what was said, Miz was probably like "Yeah, whatever", since this whole shit between them seemed very one sided. Punk talked shit on him multiple times, and the worst thing Miz did was a stupid harmless joke. Miz has had a Hall of Fame career, main evented Wrestlemania, worked with multiple celebrities, is a very trusted guy in WWE, has lots of friends, is married to Maryse, has a family, and gets to live a dream life (always at celebrity all star festivities). He ain't got time for a petty real life feud. I can picture it where, if Miz wasn’t the official locker room leader, some of the boys might appoint him to that position with immediate effect just to send a message to Punk. Miz is definitely a winner here, since it will be a lot easier to commute to his summer home inside Punk’s head. In all seriousness, I suspect part of the reason Punk went to bury the hatchet with Mike is exactly because he already knows Mike is at least one of the leaders in the locker room, he’s been there longer than just about anyone aside from Orton and Rey, and even if Miz doesn’t really care, Punk seems to be of that older mindset and knows Mike’s earned that respect with the guys.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Nov 27, 2023 13:56:17 GMT -5
"I'm so sorry. The cancer has returned."
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 27, 2023 14:03:34 GMT -5
Punk in AEW, he had all the leverage. Punk in WWE, the company has all the leverage. That dude is gonna be on his bestest behaviour
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Nov 27, 2023 14:25:17 GMT -5
That's what was said, Miz was probably like "Yeah, whatever", since this whole shit between them seemed very one sided. Punk talked shit on him multiple times, and the worst thing Miz did was a stupid harmless joke. Miz has had a Hall of Fame career, main evented Wrestlemania, worked with multiple celebrities, is a very trusted guy in WWE, has lots of friends, is married to Maryse, has a family, and gets to live a dream life (always at celebrity all star festivities). He ain't got time for a petty real life feud. In all seriousness, I suspect part of the reason Punk went to bury the hatchet with Mike is exactly because he already knows Mike is at least one of the leaders in the locker room, he’s been there longer than just about anyone aside from Orton and Rey, and even if Miz doesn’t really care, Punk seems to be of that older mindset and knows Mike’s earned that respect with the guys. Yeah, I think somewhere in Punk's mind, Miz has now "earned" his status enough in the years since he's been gone for him to no longer resent the guy. And Miz seems like the kind of guy who will shrug it off and go "yeah, sure, we're cool" and shake his hand.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 27, 2023 14:26:35 GMT -5
In all seriousness, I suspect part of the reason Punk went to bury the hatchet with Mike is exactly because he already knows Mike is at least one of the leaders in the locker room, he’s been there longer than just about anyone aside from Orton and Rey, and even if Miz doesn’t really care, Punk seems to be of that older mindset and knows Mike’s earned that respect with the guys. Yeah, I think somewhere in Punk's mind, Miz has now "earned" his status enough in the years since he's been gone for him to no longer resent the guy. And Miz seems like the kind of guy who will shrug it off and go "yeah, sure, we're cool" and shake his hand. I'm pretty sure that the heat between Miz and Punk has been entirely one direction.
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MrElijah
Crow T. Robot
Posts: 45,062
Member is Online
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Post by MrElijah on Nov 27, 2023 14:29:40 GMT -5
All I know is that I want whatever magic dust HHH uses to get people who I never, ever imagined would come back to the fold to bury the hatchet. I wanna see Hunter get Ole Anderson on the HOF stage.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Nov 27, 2023 14:33:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I think somewhere in Punk's mind, Miz has now "earned" his status enough in the years since he's been gone for him to no longer resent the guy. And Miz seems like the kind of guy who will shrug it off and go "yeah, sure, we're cool" and shake his hand. I'm pretty sure that the heat between Miz and Punk has been entirely one direction. Oh, it is. I said it earlier in the thread: Punk had this weird "Look at that bitch over there eating crackers" thing with Miz. Miz has taken the high road every time. I can see if Punk DID apologize, Miz accepting it and shrugging it off because he hasn't really given it any thought in ages
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Nov 27, 2023 14:34:31 GMT -5
All I know is that I want whatever magic dust HHH uses to get people who I never, ever imagined would come back to the fold to bury the hatchet. I wanna see Hunter get Ole Anderson on the HOF stage. Thinking about it, Ole and....anyone in Owen's family would be the holy grails.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,836
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Post by markymark on Nov 27, 2023 14:37:20 GMT -5
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 27, 2023 14:54:33 GMT -5
I guarantee you, even if the AEW controversy didn't happen, there still would be the disdain towards him for going back to WWE. I mean, people were bitching when he was on the WWE Backstage show in 2021, calling him the same buzzwords, "hypocrite, no morals, how can you go back to the company that almost killed you." People seem to think that CM Punk is this manifestation of everything they hate about WWE. PG, John Cena, Sport's Entertainment, everything they hate about it, they put into him because he's supposed to be this rebel that hate's all of that. When, in reality, from the "Pipe bomb" up until he left, he was just a WWE Superstar. He acted as a face and a heel according to what WWE wanted him to do. He had that goofy love triangle storyline with Daniel Bryan and AJ Lee while he was a face, and acted like a smug asshole when he was a heel, running away from the good guys like Ryback and John Cena. He lost his 400 plus day title reign to The Rock, lost to Undertaker at WrestleMania, lost to Brock Lesnar, and was putting over The Shield when he left. CM Punk was a star, on talk shows and celebrity shows. I never say the "he HATES the WWE system," during that time. So where id it come from, the Colt Cobana podcast when it was shortly after he left, and emotions were sky high? When he was in AEW? Because him bashing WWE in AEW wasn't shocking at all, he whole character was "disgruntle WWE star." He has to, just like all the other former WWE stars have to, just like Edge said, "to get a cheap pop." Judging by the discourse and tribalism that's even on this topic alone, it's what the AEW fans wanted to hear. And, if his ego is a massive and people say it is, do you really think he would just fade away after his untimely exit from AEW? I mean, once he was fired from AEW, it was only a matter of when, not if, he'll be back in WWE. Then Survivor Series was in Chicago, then the teases started, and it all clicked. Now, people are actively angry at him, acting like he betrayed them, when in reality Phil Brooks is not your friend, you don't know him personally. Now, if you excuse me, I'm going to watch his return for the 25th time. Part of it is that from the beginning, there was a narrative that nobody in charge actually wanted him in WWE except Heyman, who was running OVW at the time. And that the company wanted to give him humiliating gimmicks like a deaf wrestler that can't speak clearly (thus nullifying what most people saw as his biggest strength). He was never wanted in WWE. That's why he always had something to do, he always got a lot of television time, and held multiple titles. You're not getting what Punk got if the top brass never wanted you. Hunter may not have liked him, but Vince wanted Punk.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,852
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 27, 2023 14:57:07 GMT -5
Part of it is that from the beginning, there was a narrative that nobody in charge actually wanted him in WWE except Heyman, who was running OVW at the time. And that the company wanted to give him humiliating gimmicks like a deaf wrestler that can't speak clearly (thus nullifying what most people saw as his biggest strength). He was never wanted in WWE. That's why he always had something to do, he always got a lot of television time, and held multiple titles. You're not getting what Punk got if the top brass never wanted you. Hunter may not have liked him, but Vince wanted Punk. Oh, I'm aware. I'm more just getting at the mythology behind the "Rebel" image.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 27, 2023 15:02:50 GMT -5
He was never wanted in WWE. That's why he always had something to do, he always got a lot of television time, and held multiple titles. You're not getting what Punk got if the top brass never wanted you. Hunter may not have liked him, but Vince wanted Punk. Oh, I'm aware. I'm more just getting at the mythology behind the "Rebel" image. I know, it's just funny that that belief exists. Like the belief that Sami and KO would have been better in AEW, because WWE didn't value them. Any wrestling company, if a guy is constantly being used, the company always finds something for that person to do, that means they're valued and wanted there.
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