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Post by The Rick Jericho on Dec 28, 2023 23:58:04 GMT -5
We all saw the pop in 2011. They teased another Diesel-Big Show feud with the staredown after elimination.
Say he was brought back and simply worked as Diesel for the rest of the year. Would the character have sustained or do you think he would have to eventually revert back to Kevin Nash, because that was where Nash himself saw value in, as himself.
On a side note, too bad Hall wasn't in good shape, one last Razor Ramon entrance, with gear and gold for a Royal Rumble would've been amazing in itself.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 29, 2023 0:16:48 GMT -5
Diesel barely worked in 1995. He had that sweet window from late 93 to a little after a year later he was over and killing it, then he damn near bankrupted the company as champion.
He got a nostalgia pop, nothing more.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
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Post by Perd on Dec 29, 2023 0:19:35 GMT -5
Nah, even then I think his knees were held together with toothpicks and scotch tape.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Dec 29, 2023 0:39:35 GMT -5
Nah, even then I think his knees were held together with toothpicks and scotch tape. The 2011 Royal Rumble was the first time in years Rey was in a ring with a dude whose knees were in worse shape than his.
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Post by Andew9001 on Dec 29, 2023 0:44:14 GMT -5
Diesal only ever worked as either a badass heel or badass tweener. Face Diesal sucked. Even if they did something with Diesal it most likely would have been their version of Diesal and not effortlessly cool Kevin Nash. You could've gotten a match or two out of him with smoke and mirrors but by that point he was just knackered.
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Post by sarkerpolseng on Dec 29, 2023 0:45:58 GMT -5
Maybe for Matt Striker
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DichEvans
Samurai Cop
Lenny Lazy Lane Stinks
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Post by DichEvans on Dec 29, 2023 3:06:12 GMT -5
I don't know if his knees could have made it worked.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 29, 2023 7:27:31 GMT -5
Diesel barely worked in 1995. He had that sweet window from late 93 to a little after a year later he was over and killing it, then he damn near bankrupted the company as champion. He got a nostalgia pop, nothing more. To be fair, other than HBK, dude had hot garbage to work. Sid was fine, I suppose. Who else was there? Bundy? A not that over Jeff Jarrett? Kama? It was so bad they had him feud with f***ing MABLE for chrissake, at Summerslam! YOU try making magic there.
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Post by clc on Dec 29, 2023 8:10:05 GMT -5
That was one of the best Rumble surprises. It gave us a two-for-one. Not just Nash being back, but coming back as Big Daddy Cool, Diesel is what made it fun. Would full time Diesel worked? Maybe. I think Roman Reigns has proved that you can just let someone fail over and over again on the biggest stage, for years, and eventually find the thing that works. Probably leaving some money on the table while you wait for your gamble to finally pay off, but hey.
I'd have Nash come back, as Diesel, then have him revert gimmick every time he loses. We could have OZ, Vinnie Vegas, MB Steel, then end his run when Super Shredder puts over a returning Toxic Turtle.
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Talent Name
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
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Post by Talent Name on Dec 29, 2023 8:44:03 GMT -5
He should have done his Magic Mike gimmick as a barely mobile male stripper
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tirtefaa
Unicron
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Post by tirtefaa on Dec 29, 2023 9:09:41 GMT -5
Diesel barely worked in 1995. He had that sweet window from late 93 to a little after a year later he was over and killing it, then he damn near bankrupted the company as champion. He got a nostalgia pop, nothing more. To be fair, other than HBK, dude had hot garbage to work. Sid was fine, I suppose. Who else was there? Bundy? A not that over Jeff Jarrett? Kama? It was so bad they had him feud with f***ing MABLE for chrissake, at Summerslam! YOU try making magic there. Diesel worked just fine in 1995. The problem was the overall product was awful and was having a difficult time finding a direction, something that they had been struggling with since the steroid trial. This was around the time when WWF was running those stupid commercials about the 'hip' WWF compared to the 'old' WCW, despite the fact that WWF had almost as many old guys with Bundy, Backlund and whatnot. When Bret became champion again, the company didn't all the sudden turn around, they continued to struggle, even having some tours that were worse under Bret than they were Diesel, and then things got worse with Shawn. No one was drawing in those days.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Dec 29, 2023 10:30:50 GMT -5
To be fair, other than HBK, dude had hot garbage to work. Sid was fine, I suppose. Who else was there? Bundy? A not that over Jeff Jarrett? Kama? It was so bad they had him feud with f***ing MABLE for chrissake, at Summerslam! YOU try making magic there. Diesel worked just fine in 1995. The problem was the overall product was awful and was having a difficult time finding a direction, something that they had been struggling with since the steroid trial. This was around the time when WWF was running those stupid commercials about the 'hip' WWF compared to the 'old' WCW, despite the fact that WWF had almost as many old guys with Bundy, Backlund and whatnot. When Bret became champion again, the company didn't all the sudden turn around, they continued to struggle, even having some tours that were worse under Bret than they were Diesel, and then things got worse with Shawn. No one was drawing in those days. Fans put too much heat on Nash for it. He had nothing to work with. The Bret feud was jarring for the audience because they had just seen it months prior with a Face Bret and Heel Diesel and it just served as a weird 4 way intersection for three different angles; Bret vs Owen, Shawn vs Diesel and Bob Backlund vs Diesel and Bret and it seemed like that start coupled with a less than great Wrestlemania match with Shawn got it off to the worst possible start. The Ted DiBiase feud dragged on and on and his Heel factory was on par with the Dungeon of Doom on terms of intrigue. They had no business being involved in Diesel vs Sid. Mabel was suppose to be on par with the typical Hogan Heel Monster but no one cared about Mabel's random push. They tried going for a Mega Powers deal with Shawn, which I believe was suppose to lead to a rematch at Wrestlemania XII, but the Bulldog match at In Your House caused Vince to change gears realizing this reign was not working at all. They wanted Diesel to be the next Hogan level face. The Hulk Hogan of the 90s, but like with Lex, Sid and Warrior prior, Nash did not fit the part and shifting him from being a badass heel that had 0 regard for his opponent to a corporate babyface, which Diesel even alludes to in his promo the night after Survivor Series. Bad characterization coupled with poorly booked and written feuds and too much deadweight involved in his feuds (ie. The Million Dollar Corporation) killed everything that was working in 1994 with the WWF and with Diesel. I truly believe Diesel/Shawn II was the plan for Wrestlemania XII with perhaps Bret vs Taker. It does feel like Bret inherited what Diesel's match slate was suppose to be while Diesel was reinvented as what became the genesis of Kevin Nash
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
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Post by FinalGwen on Dec 29, 2023 10:46:46 GMT -5
I think he did all his spots bar the Jackknife in that 1 minute 34 seconds, and he doesn't even get into the ring until 53 seconds in.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 29, 2023 11:10:24 GMT -5
I don't see the dilemma. Late era Diesel was just Kevin Nash under a different name. Unless we're talking about reverting him back to '94 Diesel which was basically Master Blaster Steel in sunglasses.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 29, 2023 11:12:32 GMT -5
I’ve said this many times before, Vince McMahon had no f***ing clue when it came to Kevin Nash and why fans liked him. He was your funny, laidback jock uncle or cousin who was fun to hang out and have beers with, but had a viscous mean streak that you sure as f*** wanted fighting beside you not against.
Vince always focused on the mean streak part and never seemed to let Nash go out there and just be Nash. Nash is a fun loving dude, who just radiates a certain “too cool for school” energy that’s hard to replicate without coming across as a tool. Big Kev sucks when he’s super serious and angry all the time.
So this is a roundabout way of saying, I don’t think he ever really made the Diesel character work because what Vince wanted and what Kev was great at were 2 very different things
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
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Post by Nosnorb on Dec 29, 2023 12:48:16 GMT -5
Big Kev sucks when he’s super serious and angry all the time. A big reason why he was so awful during his return later in 2011 to feud with CM Punk.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
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Post by tirtefaa on Dec 29, 2023 13:38:45 GMT -5
So this is a roundabout way of saying, I don’t think he ever really made the Diesel character work because what Vince wanted and what Kev was great at were 2 very different things I thought Diesel's post title run was actually some of his best work in his entire career. When it comes to the "I'm no longer going to be the guy you expected me to be" promos you've seen a million times, when Diesel cut this on Vince back in 1995, it was very good, probably the best promo of his entire Diesel run. I'll contribute this as far as his run goes... unfortunately the large later half of his title run wasn't helped by attaching him to Shawn Michaels, who really didn't need Diesel to get over as a face, and Diesel didn't need Shawn for any sympathy heat. I really hated seeing them together hugging and whatnot, especially when they were briefly with Bam Bam, who looked completely out of the mix. If anything, I think helped Shawn in the moment, hurt him as a face in the long run and as far as Diesel...it took the focus off him since Shawn was more flashy. I know it's super obvious to say, but with better stories and better opponents, the Diesel run would have been leagues better.
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Post by Mike Strike on Dec 29, 2023 16:08:18 GMT -5
We all saw the pop in 2011. They teased another Diesel-Big Show feud with the staredown after elimination. Say he was brought back and simply worked as Diesel for the rest of the year. Would the character have sustained or do you think he would have to eventually revert back to Kevin Nash, because that was where Nash himself saw value in, as himself. On a side note, too bad Hall wasn't in good shape, one last Razor Ramon entrance, with gear and gold for a Royal Rumble would've been amazing in itself. God damn, it's been 13 years since that moment? God damn, that moment is now 3 years closer to the 2002 NWO than it is to today?
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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Dec 29, 2023 16:13:40 GMT -5
He should have done his Magic Mike gimmick as a barely mobile male stripper Fun fact: My wife thought he was the hottest guy in that movie.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 30, 2023 8:38:37 GMT -5
He should have done his Magic Mike gimmick as a barely mobile male stripper Fun fact: My wife thought he was the hottest guy in that movie. Never seen the movie, but Big Sexy has always been a pretty damn accurate nick name. Dude even made the Silver Fox look look damn good EDIT: Except, ironically, most of his Diesel run. Him with the jet black hair just doesn’t work for me anywhere near as well as he looked with the lighter hair
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