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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 23, 2024 13:09:39 GMT -5
Also it's possible ticket sales are down because well our economy sucks f***ing balls. My extra income to do things like this has gone in the shitter. That's something I think is a good discussion piece. AEW isn't nearly as well known or watched as WWE yes, but the smaller market share gets smaller when the economy goes down the drain. So while WWE is able to sell out bigger arenas, it's more the fact it has a larger market share which offers a bigger pool of people who can/will spend what money they have when WWE comes to town. WWE has also dialed up a lot of its successes with making every major PPV into a way bigger spectacle and doing full weekends and fan events, just really playing aggressive with the fans willing to spend a lot. Which by itself isn't a bad thing, but it means that when they brag abotu "record-setting Summerslam weekends" or whatever, ti does come with the caveat that they've ramped up a lot of those non-show elements to bring in more money. WWE can do that because they have that clout built up, and it contributes to them seeming even more liek they're on the a massive upswing and can't be stopped. None of that is to claim WWE isn't oding well right now, but doing well means they keep doing well and the marketing behidn that momentum makes that more impactful and it just feeds back in to itself.
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Post by bearned on Jan 23, 2024 13:12:02 GMT -5
I know at some point it’s no longer a ‘new’ company but the fact is, they don’t have the luxury of a huge rusted on fan base like WWE who will turn up to shows no matter what. People who have gone to shows for decades through generations. Even if they don’t really watch the product very often. AEW has a ways to go till they can get to that juggernaut level.
TK seems to know it needs fixing judging by the firings and hirings at the higher levels so at least he doesn’t have his head in the sand.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 23, 2024 13:19:16 GMT -5
This coming Saturdays show in Bossier City is looking brutal I know they're going against the rumble, so this show was always going to be a tough sell, but running a city with a population of 62 thousand was certainly a strange choice. It's a satellite city to Shreveport, which has well over 200k people in a metro area of over 400k.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Jan 23, 2024 13:28:54 GMT -5
This coming Saturdays show in Bossier City is looking brutal I know they're going against the rumble, so this show was always going to be a tough sell, but running a city with a population of 62 thousand was certainly a strange choice. It's a satellite city to Shreveport, which has well over 200k people in a metro area of over 400k. It's having the exact same problem that they had with running the North Charleston, SC last week, and, on a larger scale, the same problem that the Tampa Bay Rays (who actually play well outside of downtown Tampa in St. Pete) have drawing fans to their games. Charleston, SC and Shreveport, LA are medium-sized cities with six-figure populations. They are also both traditionally strong wrestling markets, so it makes sense for AEW to run shows there. But North Charleston, SC and Bossier City, LA are not Charleston, SC and Shreveport, LA. While they are within the "metro area," they both are ~5-10 miles from the actual downtown area and require travel on the interstate to get to the arenas. It's a big ask for people on a Wednesday night for a show that doesn't end until after 11 p.m. Unless you leave early, you're looking at getting home well after midnight and potentially in the wee hours of the morning. When you factor in the fact that, in a metropolitan area of ~350k you might have 30k wrestling fans, 10k of which would ever be inclined to go see an AEW show under any circumstances, you end up with attendance in the 2-3k range in these smaller markets. I say this as somebody who grew up in the Charleston, SC metro and has been to Shreveport many times. It's not an excuse and, certainly, if Dynamite were a hotter product more people would be willing to spend money and stay out late on a Wednesday to see it, but it's certainly something that warrants being factored into this discussion.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Jan 23, 2024 13:31:57 GMT -5
Even if it is accurate Meltzer's doomposting about AEW is so dull lol [AMAZING CONTRIBUTION TO THE DISCUSSION BY CHIRAL]
and it's exhausting that another salacious headline will likely suck up all the air around wrestling chatter so I should probably just nope out now
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Post by raymondo316 on Jan 23, 2024 13:31:57 GMT -5
This coming Saturdays show in Bossier City is looking brutal I know they're going against the rumble, so this show was always going to be a tough sell, but running a city with a population of 62 thousand was certainly a strange choice. It's a satellite city to Shreveport, which has well over 200k people in a metro area of over 400k. Ahhh that makes sense then I'd never heard of the place till now, so just googled it and saw it had a small population...
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 23, 2024 13:53:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't really go with the read on the economy: if anything, pay is up for most people, and outpacing inflation, consumer confidence is very high and people are spending tons of money on non-essentials. That doesn't mean there aren't issues; in the States in particular, education and housing just keep getting jacked up higher and higher, but there's plenty of spending going on.
What I think sticks out is that truly horrendous job AEW did on ticket pricing for a good while; I don't know why they did it, but having so many high-price tickets made no sense. The product was hotter coming out of the pandemic (lots of pent up demand for all kinds of events after that), but ticket prices were much, much better, so no real idea what the plan was, there, or if it was just a flat-out misread. AEW is still, and will be for the foreseeable future, the "second brand"; anecdotally, at a bar before the most recent Newark show (decent turn out, but certainly far from a sell-out) it was clear listening to some of the people around me how many were still largely familiar with WWE more than anything else. Again, post-pandemic meant a lot of pent up demand for live events and whatnot, but we're mostly past that phase and the fact remains they're still the lesser known promotion, so not every market is going to work.
But yeah, they still do great with PPVs, get solid TV numbers, and I have to think the addition of a second show in a different market every week has some kind of impact on this stuff. They had stronger numbers end of last year, there's a lull right now, it'll probably go back up pretty soon.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 23, 2024 14:08:12 GMT -5
Even if it is accurate Meltzer's doomposting about AEW is so dull lol [AMAZING CONTRIBUTION TO THE DISCUSSION BY CHIRAL] and it's exhausting that another salacious headline will likely suck up all the air around wrestling chatter so I should probably just nope out nowYeah can Bischoff mouth off again so Dave can say something productive? Because he really hasn't before or since that, it's like The Bucks renamed their finisher or something lol
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jan 23, 2024 14:23:45 GMT -5
What a nice gift from Morffi before he was let go
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 23, 2024 14:50:37 GMT -5
What a nice gift from Morffi before he was let go
I would have to double check when the dates were announced or even booked because there have been times where AEW has booked a show near the date of a nearby WWE event but there have also been times where WWE has booked shows around an AEW show in the market. I personally don't think that they would have done that well in New Orleans this time around even without WWE running as they didn't do THAT well their first time around and Shreveport isn't necessarily a super large metro area. I've heard from friends in the area that it's also not the best place to travel to. You still want to try new markets because it could turn out to be a solid place to run. But yeah, I'm not that surprised here.
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Post by BigPoppaNasty on Jan 23, 2024 15:08:06 GMT -5
I know at some point it’s no longer a ‘new’ company but the fact is, they don’t have the luxury of a huge rusted on fan base like WWE who will turn up to shows no matter what. People who have gone to shows for decades through generations. Even if they don’t really watch the product very often. AEW has a ways to go till they can get to that juggernaut level. TK seems to know it needs fixing judging by the firings and hirings at the higher levels so at least he doesn’t have his head in the sand. I think it is fair to say that AEW has to drop the "we're a new company" excuse fairly soon, but I think it goes deeper than just the age of AEW to its top competitor. AEW saw a decline in television ratings last year, while WWE saw an increase. It think there were a lot of people who watch both products, and I'm one of them, who just generally enjoyed WWE more and AEW less last year. The numbers pretty much reflect that.
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Moppy
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Post by Moppy on Jan 23, 2024 15:09:14 GMT -5
I wonder if doing something like making Collision a Daily's Place-exclusive could be feasible/helpful. As noted in this thread, it's a hot crowd and unique look. Then tour Dynamite in the major markets and Rampage in smaller towns/arenas.
Could make Collision feel more special, plus take the strain off the overall number of shows they need to take on the road + shift tickets for.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 23, 2024 15:12:44 GMT -5
I know at some point it’s no longer a ‘new’ company but the fact is, they don’t have the luxury of a huge rusted on fan base like WWE who will turn up to shows no matter what. People who have gone to shows for decades through generations. Even if they don’t really watch the product very often. AEW has a ways to go till they can get to that juggernaut level. TK seems to know it needs fixing judging by the firings and hirings at the higher levels so at least he doesn’t have his head in the sand. I think it is fair to say that AEW has to drop the "we're a new company" excuse fairly soon, but I think it goes deeper than just the age of AEW to its top competitor. AEW saw a decline in television ratings last year, while WWE saw an increase. It think there were a lot of people who watch both products, and I'm one of them, who just generally enjoyed WWE more and AEW less last year. The numbers pretty much reflect that. WWE also lost a lot of numbers because of Vince, like he actively dropped the numbers with his booking. HHH brought some of the viewers who dropped the product because of Vince McMahon, back into the fold, I think that's safer to say then saying because WWE was the objectively better program in you or others eyes it's why AEW did worse. Neither prigram directly compete against one another on any regular sort of basis. TV Ratings also don't correlate to live attendance gates, they don't always correlate to how a company is to the general public either because Nielson's not a finite system they're always an estimation, which is why a lot of people loathe the ratings discussion in the first place anymore.
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Burst
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Post by Burst on Jan 23, 2024 15:12:45 GMT -5
Having spent some time in Shreveport for work, it's certainly big enough for a wrestling stop, but at the same time aside from the Air Force base there's pretty much legitimately nothing to draw you to the area. That being said, I don't think the distance from downtown Shreveport is necessarily indicative in this case as I'm not entirely sure that Shreveport has had the in-fill of downtown population again; at least while I was there it did seem like one of those cities where the bulk of the population was still in the 'burbs. The arena AEW is using is by where I used to go running, which is just south of the base, and maybe 5 miles from downtown as the crow flies. Also not sure how much pull they'd get from the other small towns along the I-49 corridor, but that runs back into the "it's Wednesday night" issue.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 23, 2024 15:14:37 GMT -5
Personally I have been of the belief that Collision could run smaller more intimate venues more often then Dynamite which might realistically drawer bigger crowds at a higher clip due to brand recognition
It'd also make the shows feel more different from one another without taking away from either one. Not saying they need to run in the Impact Zone either but AEW's seemed to find a lot of success running in Basketball Arenas and College areas, and I think they should very much look into that more for certain tour dates.
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jm
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Post by jm on Jan 23, 2024 15:22:05 GMT -5
So Dave has turned up the switch on the AEW doom and gloom handle and broken off the knob I see.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Jan 23, 2024 15:22:06 GMT -5
Having spent some time in Shreveport for work, it's certainly big enough for a wrestling stop, but at the same time aside from the Air Force base there's pretty much legitimately nothing to draw you to the area. That being said, I don't think the distance from downtown Shreveport is necessarily indicative in this case as I'm not entirely sure that Shreveport has had the in-fill of downtown population again; at least while I was there it did seem like one of those cities where the bulk of the population was still in the 'burbs. The arena AEW is using is by where I used to go running, which is just south of the base, and maybe 5 miles from downtown as the crow flies. Also not sure how much pull they'd get from the other small towns along the I-49 corridor, but that runs back into the "it's Wednesday night" issue. Yeah, I more meant the "downtown area" to mean the geographical center of the "metro area" than to say it's the population center in every instance. The issue is absolutely more with the fact that there are people out in the Shreveport "burbs" (say, people living in Blanchard) who are 15-20 minutes from Bossier City with no traffic at all. You're looking at a late night going to a Dynamite taping on a Wednesday that doesn't end until after 11. And, with ticket prices the way that they are, many folks aren't going to buy a ticket to a show when they know they're going to leave early. Again, it's not the reason ticket sales are lower, but it's part of the discussion that the "Shreveport, LA metro" and the "Charleston, SC metro" sprawl a little more in terms of where a large percentage of potential attendees to a wrestling event live than larger cities.
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Post by BigPoppaNasty on Jan 23, 2024 15:23:44 GMT -5
I think it is fair to say that AEW has to drop the "we're a new company" excuse fairly soon, but I think it goes deeper than just the age of AEW to its top competitor. AEW saw a decline in television ratings last year, while WWE saw an increase. It think there were a lot of people who watch both products, and I'm one of them, who just generally enjoyed WWE more and AEW less last year. The numbers pretty much reflect that. WWE also lost a lot of numbers because of Vince, like he actively dropped the numbers with his booking. HHH brought some of the viewers who dropped the product because of Vince McMahon, back into the fold, I think that's safer to say then saying because WWE was the objectively better program in you or others eyes it's why AEW did worse. Neither prigram directly compete against one another on any regular sort of basis. TV Ratings also don't correlate to live attendance gates, they don't always correlate to how a company is to the general public either because Nielson's not a finite system they're always an estimation, which is why a lot of people loathe the ratings discussion in the first place anymore. So, it's not reasonable to say that television viewers enjoyed the WWE product despite increasing viewership, but it is reasonable to say that television viewers disliked Vince McMahon's product based on declining viewership. Thanks for clearing that up. Would it be fair to say that AEW may have had a decrease in viewership due to fans disliking what was being presented in comparison to previous product? Would it be fair to say that AEW may have had a decrease in viewership due to "cable cutting" in general? If so, then perhaps one could attribute the decline in WWE's ratings over the years to that, as well.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jan 23, 2024 15:32:33 GMT -5
They booked some arena's that are to big, it would cost more to change them so it is what it is. AEW decided that it was better for business to stay with bigger arenas for relationship purposes so when the product gets hot they still have a good relationship Yeah this line of thinking is baffling. It’s like a childless newlywed couple saying, “We plan to have 5 kids so until we do we’ll cook enough food for 7 people then throw out the rest.”
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 23, 2024 15:41:49 GMT -5
AEW decided that it was better for business to stay with bigger arenas for relationship purposes so when the product gets hot they still have a good relationship Yeah this line of thinking is baffling. It’s like a childless newlywed couple saying, “We plan to have 5 kids so until we do we’ll cook enough food for 7 people then throw out the rest.” In this case, it's not that crazy, at least as best as I understand it: very often larger venues can actually come cheaper than smaller ones (depending on market/location/other factors), AEW's set and gear are designed for a larger venue, etc. Odds are if they went more mid-sized they likely wouldn't save very much.
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