ghost
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,766
|
Post by ghost on Jan 23, 2024 20:53:22 GMT -5
They are booking for a niche audience. Exactly. Wrestling/SE in general is already a niche genre. What Khan is doing is booking for a niche within a niche. The ceiling for that type of approach is going to be limited compared to WWE. I'm not even saying he's wrong for doing it. I just don't think you're selling out big arenas consistently that way.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,067
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 23, 2024 21:05:24 GMT -5
They are booking for a niche audience. Exactly. Wrestling/SE in general is already a niche genre. What Khan is doing is booking for a niche within a niche. The ceiling for that type of approach is going to be limited compared to WWE. I'm not even saying he's wrong for doing it. I just don't think you're selling out big arenas consistently that way. I don't get this argument because when I see AEW, I see them appealing to almost every single style of genre that exists in wrestling, literally something for every flavor, from the dramatic to the silly. You will see classic technical, hoss, high flying, lucha, hard hitting, Joshi, deathmatches, crossover, you will see sports entertainment-esque gimmicks, more wrestler based gimmicks, you will see classic vets people know and young stars on the rise people might get to know. AEW provides a little bit of something for everyone, and you see it in the crowds. Funny enough very recently at the last few events commentary even made note on the amount of kids in attendance for AEW shows, and not linked to one particular wrestler, to Darby, to Orange, to Jeff Hardy, to Thunder Rosa. When people say they're appealing to a "niche within a niche" they never elaborate further on exactly how they're doing that, and in what ways they should apparently be appealing to more of the niche they apparently... aren't? Their presentation and graphics, video packages, everything are on par with WWE. Their in-ring product might be a step above even now. I feel like they've done everything they can to show they can be on par with WWE while also not being a clone of WWE, which they shouldn't be in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 23, 2024 22:01:26 GMT -5
So, who is going to be the one to add things up and realize Meltzer’s anti-AEW slant only started after Punk left. Put two and two together, and you’ll understand why that is. Mf’er is still talking to Meltzer. I remember somewhere in the middle of the scandal that Meltzer all but ratted out Punk as a source in a twitter reply he hastily deleted. Not even a little bit of a question to me, although it does all make me wonder if Dave just accepts the public-facing bullshit as the cost of doing bsiness even if it sucks, or if he compartmentalizes it away and acccepts it as just something he's got to put up with to get sources. Becuase Punk says some shit about Meltz
|
|
|
Post by IgnahtaSempria on Jan 23, 2024 22:16:42 GMT -5
So, who is going to be the one to add things up and realize Meltzer’s anti-AEW slant only started after Punk left. Put two and two together, and you’ll understand why that is. Mf’er is still talking to Meltzer. I remember somewhere in the middle of the scandal that Meltzer all but ratted out Punk as a source in a twitter reply he hastily deleted. Not even a little bit of a question to me, although it does all make me wonder if Dave just accepts the public-facing bullshit as the cost of doing bsiness even if it sucks, or if he compartmentalizes it away and acccepts it as just something he's got to put up with to get sources. Becuase Punk says some shit about Meltz It reminds me of the time he and Alvarez were joking about his DMs leaking (I think it was about star ratings or WOR awards or something), and he said something to the effect of "there's a lot of people who publically mock me who are in my DMs". It almost makes me want Meltzer to retire, just to see him go full scorched earth with all his sources. "Remember this thing where half the internet was calling me a liar? Yeah, [Wrestler] told me that one."
|
|
J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 2,001
|
Post by J. Hova on Jan 23, 2024 23:07:58 GMT -5
Obviously, TK can fund this practically indefinitely if he chooses to, but I wonder if this ship has started to take on too much water.
There are tons of issues both internal and external but it isn't like AEW sales haven't been going down for the better part of a year. I can't help but think if they would just pull back from trying to book the biggest arenas in every town that would almost have to help. I also don't think they should be going everywhere. They need to focus on where they do draw people. They also need to trim the fat a bit. I've been saying it for years, there are too many damn people on the roster. It is commendable that TK didn't release anyone during COVID, but he needs to focus on his core 10 or 12 guys and girls, and build around them. This isn't 2020 anymore, there are other places for those people to work.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 23, 2024 23:57:07 GMT -5
There's a lot AEW can do to improve their attendance numbers but I also think it's worth mentioning that live gates are such a drop in the bucket for their business model given how TV rights/PPV work. It's not to say this area isn't worth discussing but I think it often can get framed as a major issue given the historical significance of live gate revenue but it probably doesn't keep Tony Khan up at night and isn't seen as a major emergency.
|
|
Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
|
Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 24, 2024 0:04:11 GMT -5
Obviously, TK can fund this practically indefinitely if he chooses to, but I wonder if this ship has started to take on too much water. There are tons of issues both internal and external but it isn't like AEW sales haven't been going down for the better part of a year. I can't help but think if they would just pull back from trying to book the biggest arenas in every town that would almost have to help. I also don't think they should be going everywhere. They need to focus on where they do draw people. They also need to trim the fat a bit. I've been saying it for years, there are too many damn people on the roster. It is commendable that TK didn't release anyone during COVID, but he needs to focus on his core 10 or 12 guys and girls, and build around them. This isn't 2020 anymore, there are other places for those people to work. Why trim the fat? If he can pay their contracts, then why bother releasing them? Just so he doesn't book them? Because he's spread himself to thin on who to book? If it's the latter then all he needs to do is buckle down and figure out who to focus on and use others to do ROH stuff or supplement matches. Which he kinda is doing now anyways. Unless it is legit a WCW situation, which this is not, where the contracts are getting too outrageous to keep the company afloat, then there is no reason to just release people. Not unless they're asking for it, which in this case I'd say go ahead. But no reason to cut people when he doesn't have to. Just like WWE has no reason to do so, even though they do. And their reason for doing so is to make the profits look good to shareholders for a quarter, which isn't a TK problem. So no, releasing people isn't going to help this issue.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 24, 2024 0:11:57 GMT -5
The interesting thing is that their decline year over year from 2022 to 2023 in terms of raw tickets sold was smaller than you would think and was likely made up for with the increased cost of tickets. Obviously if the rest of 2024 resembles Bossier City type houses, that will be different but it's hard to say how it will look by the end of the year. A lot can change. They're already guaranteed to have 2 of their top 5 biggest attendances ever this year.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 24, 2024 3:26:01 GMT -5
I remember somewhere in the middle of the scandal that Meltzer all but ratted out Punk as a source in a twitter reply he hastily deleted. Not even a little bit of a question to me, although it does all make me wonder if Dave just accepts the public-facing bullshit as the cost of doing bsiness even if it sucks, or if he compartmentalizes it away and acccepts it as just something he's got to put up with to get sources. Becuase Punk says some shit about Meltz It reminds me of the time he and Alvarez were joking about his DMs leaking (I think it was about star ratings or WOR awards or something), and he said something to the effect of "there's a lot of people who publically mock me who are in my DMs". It almost makes me want Meltzer to retire, just to see him go full scorched earth with all his sources. "Remember this thing where half the internet was calling me a liar? Yeah, [Wrestler] told me that one." Meltzer: live, drunk and uncut would be worth every penny
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jan 24, 2024 3:29:08 GMT -5
There's a lot AEW can do to improve their attendance numbers but I also think it's worth mentioning that live gates are such a drop in the bucket for their business model given how TV rights/PPV work. It's not to say this area isn't worth discussing but I think it often can get framed as a major issue given the historical significance of live gate revenue but it probably doesn't keep Tony Khan up at night and isn't seen as a major emergency. Like, we also have to remember WWE had this exact problem for years. The reason it wasn’t such a big deal, and honestly still sort of isn’t, is because USA/CW/FOX/Whoever were paying them a lot in TV deals. Of course, that didn’t mean they didn’t try with stuff (the Guest Host era was probably their most desperate times to try and gain a bigger ticket foothold) but if you were being paid billions, you can take the hit on some tickets. And as said, if we get the same problems this year, then it’s a concern. There seems to be some turnaround already in some locations and we don’t know what strategy the new Live events head has yet so, you know…chill, maybe? Or at least cool the suggestions of firing people because we’re worried it’ll hurt a billionaire’s pocket too much.
|
|
Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
Posts: 3,726
|
Post by Chuck Conry on Jan 24, 2024 3:45:15 GMT -5
They should do smaller/cooler looking buildings. Dailey's was a good choice. Maybe Hammerstein. How about the mall of America? lol
|
|
|
Post by Ryushinku on Jan 24, 2024 6:15:37 GMT -5
'WCW 2000' is such a loaded term when applied to any company, it's going to set some backs up and overshadow any point you're trying to make.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 24, 2024 6:43:10 GMT -5
Exactly. Wrestling/SE in general is already a niche genre. What Khan is doing is booking for a niche within a niche. The ceiling for that type of approach is going to be limited compared to WWE. I'm not even saying he's wrong for doing it. I just don't think you're selling out big arenas consistently that way. I don't get this argument because when I see AEW, I see them appealing to almost every single style of genre that exists in wrestling, literally something for every flavor, from the dramatic to the silly. You will see classic technical, hoss, high flying, lucha, hard hitting, Joshi, deathmatches, crossover, you will see sports entertainment-esque gimmicks, more wrestler based gimmicks, you will see classic vets people know and young stars on the rise people might get to know. AEW provides a little bit of something for everyone, and you see it in the crowds. Funny enough very recently at the last few events commentary even made note on the amount of kids in attendance for AEW shows, and not linked to one particular wrestler, to Darby, to Orange, to Jeff Hardy, to Thunder Rosa. When people say they're appealing to a "niche within a niche" they never elaborate further on exactly how they're doing that, and in what ways they should apparently be appealing to more of the niche they apparently... aren't? Their presentation and graphics, video packages, everything are on par with WWE. Their in-ring product might be a step above even now. I feel like they've done everything they can to show they can be on par with WWE while also not being a clone of WWE, which they shouldn't be in the first place. The overloaded AEW roster (highlighted more because it's one brand) and their desire to often push too many new stars at once I feel is their core issue, they're fine as far as their wrestling style variety.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jan 24, 2024 6:47:00 GMT -5
'WCW 2000' is such a loaded term when applied to any company, it's going to set some backs up and overshadow any point you're trying to make. It's very much like putting in a panic even if the panic isn't fully there. And frankly, the panic just isn't much there. WBD seems happy, they're still making money from those venues and they're making steps to resolve the issue with experience instead of doing what WCW did and hope the nWo coming back would solve the problem. And I'll say again; won't care about how much talent they have until they become public and I personally become a shareholder. Otherwise, ain't my money.
|
|
|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 24, 2024 7:09:53 GMT -5
'WCW 2000' is such a loaded term when applied to any company, it's going to set some backs up and overshadow any point you're trying to make. Could be worse, could be "WCW 1999". I will always say that WCW 1999 was far worse than WCW 2000, 1999 was just boring, at least 2000 could be fun bad. But, yeah AEW has to stop running venues in the same area that WWE just ran. People are gonna choose to go to the WWE show over the AEW show. They've also gotta lower the ticket prices. Don't know how true it is, but I saw it said that was a big thing Cody was an advocate for. Keep tickets prices relatively low to get families there, and so fans have more money to spend on merchandise. Right now they've got high ticket prices, and fans know to wait till just before the show when they can get those same tickets for 1/3rd the price.
|
|
|
Post by Ryushinku on Jan 24, 2024 8:30:23 GMT -5
As a watcher at the time - WCW 1999 I had at least flickers of hope, the big stars were still only a year or two off peak relevancy, some new people were coming up, they could still get big crowds at times, and there were some excellent matches still.
WCW 2000 was a car crash, yeah often not boring (aside from the first three months), but a car crash all the same and increasingly tough to watch feeling that they were really doomed. Even if 2001 was still a shock to me.
Really, though, it's more that 2000 is when (as much as Bischoff pretends otherwise) they really lost huge money. It's a loaded term financially.
I do agree that I think the ticket prices are something AEW need to get better at handling. May even be the top reason.
|
|
Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,706
Member is Online
|
Post by Kalmia on Jan 24, 2024 8:58:10 GMT -5
WCW didn't fold because of its ticket sales. It was because of comical mismanagement and losing its TV deal. Using WCW in 2000 as a guide for ticket sales is an interesting like for like comparison but it means nothing about the other factors of AEW. As soon as you mention WCW in 2000 it brings images of doom, gloom, and Shane McMahon but that's really oversimplifying everything.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jan 24, 2024 9:32:50 GMT -5
WCW didn't fold because of its ticket sales. It was because of comical mismanagement and losing its TV deal. Using WCW in 2000 as a guide for ticket sales is an interesting like for like comparison but it means nothing about the other factors of AEW. As soon as you mention WCW in 2000 it brings images of doom, gloom, and Shane McMahon but that's really oversimplifying everything. If we want to talk about ticket sales doing bad, WWE coasted off of TV deals for ages when the product wasn't exactly buzzing and tickets weren't exactly flying and look where they are now. And compared to WCW, Turner actually loves AEW instead of thinking them as a burden.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 24, 2024 9:35:58 GMT -5
It reminds me of the time he and Alvarez were joking about his DMs leaking (I think it was about star ratings or WOR awards or something), and he said something to the effect of "there's a lot of people who publically mock me who are in my DMs". It almost makes me want Meltzer to retire, just to see him go full scorched earth with all his sources. "Remember this thing where half the internet was calling me a liar? Yeah, [Wrestler] told me that one." Meltzer: live, drunk and uncut would be worth every penny Meltzer drunk would either be amazing, or an even more incoherent, aimless mess than he usually is. It can only impress or disappoint. THere's no middle ground there.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Jan 24, 2024 10:18:21 GMT -5
'WCW 2000' is such a loaded term when applied to any company, it's going to set some backs up and overshadow any point you're trying to make. Yeah, you evoke WCW2000 for a very specific reason to get a rise out of a very specific crowd. I still mostly like and respect Meltzer as one of the closest things to an actual journalist in this carny industry, but it's obnoxious how often he has found it necessary to post these sensationalistic headlines to try and generate clicks lately.
|
|