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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 17, 2024 21:06:29 GMT -5
Maybe I’d have like 1% of more empathy for any wrestler about Vince if there was any semblance of him being a good guy or even a good boss in the public sphere. You can feel bad for someone who didn’t have any inkling their partner was a horrible criminal. This is emphatically not the case here. There’s not a treasure trove of good guy Vince stories. Even in the “fun” Vince stories he’s very off. That’s kind of what Mick was saying, no? That he had a treasure trove of Vince good guy stories that he knew of personally that he wanted to even include in a book. |
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Sept 17, 2024 22:23:02 GMT -5
This is absolutely all 100% correct and it’s part of why wrestlers putting their head in the sand about this is so bad. I could figure out that Vince was a creep *just by watching the tv shows and what he did on them.* We all saw the demeaning stuff he did to women on tv, and I’m supposed to believe nobody in the locker room over 40 plus years had any inkling that Vince was up to bad stuff off camera? Rita Chatterton was in the 80s. Janel Grant was only a few years ago. If you’ve got two brain cells to rub together, it’s pretty easy to assume that Vince probably abused a lot more women in that wide a timeframe. It was, in all likelihood, going on the entire time he was running the company. But somehow none of these wrestlers can wrap their heads around it! It’s the damndest thing. It’s such a shock to them. So out of character for Vince. Ultimately, the reality here is that we have to assume that most wrestlers throughout history were just not good people at all and just don’t care about this stuff. No way I’m jumping to any conclusions on Mick Foley of all people being “not a good” person based on some sound bytes that he’s willing to make on this topic. Quite frankly, it makes me upset that it’s Foley saying this over anyone else because he did so much public work for sexual assault survivors. And then when a guy he admires faces numerous credible accusations he doesn’t know enough info to determine if Vince did anything wrong. It is f***ed up, plain and simple. When Mark Henry says something bad, it sucks but it’s whatever since he’s shown his true colors in the past. But when Mick Foley of all people acts that way, it’s a big letdown. |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Sept 17, 2024 22:31:13 GMT -5
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Sept 17, 2024 22:34:59 GMT -5
And again, Randy Orton has already shown how to make a statement on this. You can accurately say that you feel thankful and appreciative for what Vince did for you. That’s fair! Maybe you owe a lot to him and feel conflicted now because he was a father figure to you. Understandable! You can do all that without throwing in some BS about “whatever he did or did not do.” We know what he did.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Sept 17, 2024 22:49:13 GMT -5
Yeah Mick gets zero free passes just because he's been hit in the head a lot, unless someone can scientifically prove that a side effect of that is being a rape-apologist. He's probably smarter still than 50 Rybacks, who coincidentally is one of the few wrestlers not afraid to call Vince out. I know this is a serious thread but I love the idea of measuring wrestler intelligence in Rybacks. |
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Post by ChitownKnight on Sept 17, 2024 22:54:25 GMT -5
I think Seth had one of the best statements when he said that Vince was good to him, but if what he did was true then he and whoever else that was involved deserves to go down
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 17, 2024 23:11:41 GMT -5
No way I’m jumping to any conclusions on Mick Foley of all people being “not a good” person based on some sound bytes that he’s willing to make on this topic. Quite frankly, it makes me upset that it’s Foley saying this over anyone else because he did so much public work for sexual assault survivors. And then when a guy he admires faces numerous credible accusations he doesn’t know enough info to determine if Vince did anything wrong. It is f***ed up, plain and simple. When Mark Henry says something bad, it sucks but it’s whatever since he’s shown his true colors in the past. But when Mick Foley of all people acts that way, it’s a big letdown. Sure it’s a letdown, but I’m certainly not jumping to the conclusion that someone is a bad person for these types of statements, especially someone with a stellar track record like Foley. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 17, 2024 23:22:11 GMT -5
Mick falls into the foolish argument of "he was OK with me".
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Schizo
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Schizo on Sept 17, 2024 23:26:29 GMT -5
People have shitty opinions all the time. Even good people. It’s human nature, no one’s perfect.
I don’t agree with Mick’s opinion. Still love the guy though. No need to bring out the pitchforks everytime someone has a bad take every once in a while. Doesn’t always paint a picture on someone’s character so for reading a few sentences on the internet sometimes
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 32,518
Member is Online
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Post by Perd on Sept 17, 2024 23:32:21 GMT -5
Has anyone ever said that Vince has never done a good deed? There have probably been very few people with 100@ malevolent. Human beings just don’t work that way. And I think anyone could understand that Mick would feel grateful to Vince. His life is clearly better for having known him. And you can acknowledge that, while also acknowledge that a whole lot of things point to Vince, ultimately, being a bad person. An individual doesn’t have the burden of a court. You are allowed to look at the evidence at hand and reach your own conclusion.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 18, 2024 2:49:21 GMT -5
Very disappointing seeing Mick react like this.
For f***'s sake, Mick. Mick 'RAINN ambassador' Foley. Mick 'feminist' Foley This is a f***ing betrayal - this isn't as simple as the usual 'bad takes' I know a lot of folks on here would rather ignore a wrestler's beliefs about anything at all, and honestly, that's valid, some days I actively *wish* I could do that But Mick is my favourite wrestler, and part of the reason for that was because he didn't seem to be so much of an alpha male prick as a lot of other wrestlers, or a bully, and not as much of a misogynist Kevin Nash saying the shit he did? Nobody expects anything from Kevin Nash. But Foley? Come on, man. This is such bullshit. Frankly, as a sexual violence survivor *myself* I feel personally betrayed by this. I need to learn to stop believing anything wrestlers f***ing say. |
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,055
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Post by XIII on Sept 18, 2024 6:24:06 GMT -5
Weekly reminder: “Vince McMahon is a cross between a hell of a guy and Satan.”—-Terry Funk
I think that just about sums him up as concisely as possible.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,946
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 18, 2024 7:03:59 GMT -5
Very disappointing seeing Mick react like this.
For f***'s sake, Mick. Mick 'RAINN ambassador' Foley. Mick 'feminist' Foley This is a f***ing betrayal - this isn't as simple as the usual 'bad takes' I know a lot of folks on here would rather ignore a wrestler's beliefs about anything at all, and honestly, that's valid, some days I actively *wish* I could do that But Mick is my favourite wrestler, and part of the reason for that was because he didn't seem to be so much of an alpha male prick as a lot of other wrestlers, or a bully, and not as much of a misogynist Kevin Nash saying the shit he did? Nobody expects anything from Kevin Nash. But Foley? Come on, man. This is such bullshit. Frankly, as a sexual violence survivor *myself* I feel personally betrayed by this. I need to learn to stop believing anything wrestlers f***ing say. I know this makes me come off as kinda heartless and robotic, but honestly? I don't expect anything out of anyone famous. There's no point in putting anyone on a pedestal when you're inevitably going to have to take them down. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,595
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 18, 2024 7:42:12 GMT -5
For f***'s sake, Mick. Mick 'RAINN ambassador' Foley. Mick 'feminist' Foley This is a f***ing betrayal - this isn't as simple as the usual 'bad takes' I know a lot of folks on here would rather ignore a wrestler's beliefs about anything at all, and honestly, that's valid, some days I actively *wish* I could do that But Mick is my favourite wrestler, and part of the reason for that was because he didn't seem to be so much of an alpha male prick as a lot of other wrestlers, or a bully, and not as much of a misogynist Kevin Nash saying the shit he did? Nobody expects anything from Kevin Nash. But Foley? Come on, man. This is such bullshit. Frankly, as a sexual violence survivor *myself* I feel personally betrayed by this. I need to learn to stop believing anything wrestlers f***ing say. I know this makes me come off as kinda heartless and robotic, but honestly? I don't expect anything out of anyone famous. There's no point in putting anyone on a pedestal when you're inevitably going to have to take them down. Nah, it doesn't. There's always this temptation to build people up, but with famous people it's a lot safer to pull back. Of all places, wrestling fandom should have battered us over the head with this time after time after time. I'm at "seems like a cool person" at most, then anything happens "well, that's another one". Parasocial relationships are complex. |
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Sept 18, 2024 7:52:29 GMT -5
Very disappointing seeing Mick react like this.
For f***'s sake, Mick. Mick 'RAINN ambassador' Foley. Mick 'feminist' Foley This is a f***ing betrayal - this isn't as simple as the usual 'bad takes' I know a lot of folks on here would rather ignore a wrestler's beliefs about anything at all, and honestly, that's valid, some days I actively *wish* I could do that But Mick is my favourite wrestler, and part of the reason for that was because he didn't seem to be so much of an alpha male prick as a lot of other wrestlers, or a bully, and not as much of a misogynist Kevin Nash saying the shit he did? Nobody expects anything from Kevin Nash. But Foley? Come on, man. This is such bullshit. Frankly, as a sexual violence survivor *myself* I feel personally betrayed by this. I need to learn to stop believing anything wrestlers f***ing say. I appreciate you saying this, because to me this is not one of those “oh everyone has shitty opinions” or “everyone has bad takes” kind of situations. Especially when it’s someone who we saw at a higher standard. |
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,484
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Post by salz4life on Sept 18, 2024 8:17:28 GMT -5
Vince isn't the only one that will have tweets/pics/etc. like this. That type of "fun" is just starting... |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 18, 2024 8:21:12 GMT -5
Also actually I got distracted by Mick but I see Rikishi is continuing to deploy his weapons grade bad takes. Second chance? How many chances does he think Vince has had exactly? This is already, conservatively, his second chance in the 2020s *alone* For f***'s sake, Mick. Mick 'RAINN ambassador' Foley. Mick 'feminist' Foley This is a f***ing betrayal - this isn't as simple as the usual 'bad takes' I know a lot of folks on here would rather ignore a wrestler's beliefs about anything at all, and honestly, that's valid, some days I actively *wish* I could do that But Mick is my favourite wrestler, and part of the reason for that was because he didn't seem to be so much of an alpha male prick as a lot of other wrestlers, or a bully, and not as much of a misogynist Kevin Nash saying the shit he did? Nobody expects anything from Kevin Nash. But Foley? Come on, man. This is such bullshit. Frankly, as a sexual violence survivor *myself* I feel personally betrayed by this. I need to learn to stop believing anything wrestlers f***ing say. I know this makes me come off as kinda heartless and robotic, but honestly? I don't expect anything out of anyone famous. There's no point in putting anyone on a pedestal when you're inevitably going to have to take them down. No it makes complete sense and is ideally what I would do, but is functionally impossible for me to achieve. I very much advocate for not having heroes, people are just people, but some of that shit is hard to wash out |
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,946
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 18, 2024 8:52:10 GMT -5
Also actually I got distracted by Mick but I see Rikishi is continuing to deploy his weapons grade bad takes. Second chance? How many chances does he think Vince has had exactly? This is already, conservatively, his second chance in the 2020s *alone* I know this makes me come off as kinda heartless and robotic, but honestly? I don't expect anything out of anyone famous. There's no point in putting anyone on a pedestal when you're inevitably going to have to take them down. No it makes complete sense and is ideally what I would do, but is functionally impossible for me to achieve. I very much advocate for not having heroes, people are just people, but some of that shit is hard to wash out While the upside to not having any heroes is that I'm never let down by them, the downside is that nobody ever inspires me, either. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 18, 2024 8:59:37 GMT -5
Also actually I got distracted by Mick but I see Rikishi is continuing to deploy his weapons grade bad takes. Second chance? How many chances does he think Vince has had exactly? This is already, conservatively, his second chance in the 2020s *alone* No it makes complete sense and is ideally what I would do, but is functionally impossible for me to achieve. I very much advocate for not having heroes, people are just people, but some of that shit is hard to wash out While the upside to not having any heroes is that I'm never let down by them, the downside is that nobody ever inspires me, either. I largely focus on dead people because then even if they were awful, they're not continuing to cause harm in positions of power now if I fund them! Of course it does get more nuanced than that depending on how broad the influence is, but still |
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Post by longtimelurker29 on Sept 18, 2024 9:35:51 GMT -5
Human emotions are complicated and people love to be on their internet purity shit.
You shouldn’t support monsters and monsters need to fall. But not everyone is going to be able to let go memories of said monster because to them he was not a monster.
That opinion isn’t going to change overnight and it may never change.
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