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Post by The Captain on Sept 18, 2024 10:58:42 GMT -5
"I'm disappointed that the guy who advocates against sexual violence is making excuses for a sexual predator in his life" is not internet purity shit. I swear some people just like being contrarians over the most vile shit.
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khali
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Post by khali on Sept 18, 2024 11:02:26 GMT -5
Okay, I’ll fess up. I do have a kind of moral purity about hoping prominent figures won’t look at a guy with detailed sexual assault allegations and say they don’t know what he did or didn’t do and say they need more info.
My bad! I’ll be more wishy washy about these things going forward.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Sept 18, 2024 11:13:26 GMT -5
"I'm disappointed that the guy who advocates against sexual violence is making excuses for a sexual predator in his life" is not internet purity shit. I swear some people just like being contrarians over the most vile shit. Yeah, like, I’d get it if Janel Grant was the first person to accuse Vince. Heck, I’d even get it if Janel Grant was the first person to accuse anyone who worked for WWE of anything ever but not only is none of that the case, there’s actual evidence in the settlements and 64 pages of thorough accusations for a lawsuit that, again, was stopped by the Feds because they’re conducting an investigation on Vince and they have his phone records and emails. The F*** more do people need? Foley likely answered phone calls when volunteering for RAINN that had less than Vince has on him and those were likely people who had the courage to speak about their situation, first hand accounts. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Sept 18, 2024 11:20:59 GMT -5
Mick Foley: I don't know if I can support sexual assault victims if the perpetrator is someone who's given me a lot of money
Guys on the internet: And people are wrong if they don't like that
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 18, 2024 11:21:26 GMT -5
Okay, I’ll fess up. I do have a kind of moral purity about hoping prominent figures won’t look at a guy with detailed sexual assault allegations and say they don’t know what he did or didn’t do and say they need more info. My bad! I’ll be more wishy washy about these things going forward. For me, there’s a difference between being disappointed in a prominent figure’s wishy-washy (or downright poor) response to something as serious as the Vince conduct, and trying to invalidate someone like Mick’s moral character over such comments, especially when said person has spent 1000s of hours doing charity work, including work in this area. For me personally, I’ll weigh the actions way more over the comments. Still disappointing though. |
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khali
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Post by khali on Sept 18, 2024 11:28:17 GMT -5
Let’s look for a second about what happens when someone you love does a horrible thing. Not a father figure, but your actual father. I read an article years ago about Dennis Rader’s daughter discovering he was a serial killer and how she dealt with that. There’s a lot in there about how you grapple with the knowledge of it and your past memories. But notable for this conversation, in this article you learn that the one thing she didn’t struggle with was “waiting for more info.” She cared, so she actually tried to make sense of it herself early on:
Foley and these other guys don’t even need to think that hard to come to a conclusion. Although they could probably think about all those women they likely heard Vince talk about over the years and wonder if all those relationships were consensual. But they don’t even need to put in that much effort. Just use your eyes and read the information in the public. If people can do it about their actual fathers, you can manage to do it about your weird father figure employer.
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Post by jm on Sept 18, 2024 13:20:40 GMT -5
"Sure this person might have done horrible things, but they were always cool with ME." is a mentality that needs to die in today's society.
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Post by markymark on Sept 18, 2024 14:33:54 GMT -5
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 18, 2024 14:52:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry but some of you we just can't win with. If we were giving Foley a free pass the narrative would immediately be "IWC favourite gets free pass". We're not asking for him to be blackballed from the industry, we're saying we're disappointed. It's simple, someone being good to you doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye if they do something bad. I'm not saying it's easy (I've struggled with this very thing this year), but it's nessacary.
How Mr. "All female fans are ring rats" has the only sensible take so far is beyond me.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 18, 2024 15:25:26 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised people aren't more mad at what Rikishi said than Foley. I'm not at all cool with what Foley said but I kinda chalk it up to something an Antonio Brown from the NFL would say and not the people he hired to be silly on his twitter like the Iron Shiek guys.
I'd read it, say "damn that's not cool at all" and not forgive them but more or less be thinking about the hundreds or thousands of times he's said he's gotten brain damage. It isn't excusing them or taking away their agency but it clashes so hard with a bunch of the other shit he's been really great on that I have to feel this is some type of coping mechanism on his end. No way of really knowing though. Rikishi's statement though, that just reads as someone saying look at what this guy has done for all of us while Mick's I think is a bit more layered. Still hard as f*** to read but it is there.
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tenshi
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Post by tenshi on Sept 18, 2024 15:26:17 GMT -5
I mean... Mick went through some shit because of Vince and he might say that so he won't see himself as a victim.
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Post by tenshi on Sept 18, 2024 15:28:36 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised people aren't more mad at what Rikishi said than Foley. I'm not at all cool with what Foley said but I kinda chalk it up to something an Antonio Brown from the NFL would say and not the people he hired to be silly on his twitter like the Iron Shiek guys. I'd read it, say "damn that's not cool at all" and not forgive them but more or less be thinking about the hundreds or thousands of times he's said he's gotten brain damage. It isn't excusing them or taking away their agency but it clashes so hard with a bunch of the other shit he's been really great on that I have to feel this is some type of coping mechanism on his end. No way of really knowing though. Rikishi's statement though, that just reads as someone saying look at what this guy has done for all of us while Mick's I think is a bit more layered. Still hard as f*** to read but it is there. What did Rikishi say? |
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 18, 2024 15:39:09 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised people aren't more mad at what Rikishi said than Foley. I'm not at all cool with what Foley said but I kinda chalk it up to something an Antonio Brown from the NFL would say and not the people he hired to be silly on his twitter like the Iron Shiek guys. I'd read it, say "damn that's not cool at all" and not forgive them but more or less be thinking about the hundreds or thousands of times he's said he's gotten brain damage. It isn't excusing them or taking away their agency but it clashes so hard with a bunch of the other shit he's been really great on that I have to feel this is some type of coping mechanism on his end. No way of really knowing though. Rikishi's statement though, that just reads as someone saying look at what this guy has done for all of us while Mick's I think is a bit more layered. Still hard as f*** to read but it is there. What did Rikishi say? its in the same article at www.postwrestling.com/2024/09/17/mick-foley-whatever-vince-mcmahon-did-or-did-not-do-i-dont-think-many-of-us-are-allowing-that-to-mess-with-our-memories/ but i mean the guy starts it off with "i have nothing but respect for the mcmahons" while mick at least admits Vince got himself into something "unsavory". in a perfect world both of them would just say hey f*** that guy but there's been maybe like what, two or three wrestlers who didn't go full stupid with this? to me this reads as Foley not at all saying the right thing and making an ass of himself by coming to terms with what very well probably happened while Rikishi is over there saying yeah he probably did it but give the guy another shot. |
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khali
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Post by khali on Sept 18, 2024 15:54:22 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised people aren't more mad at what Rikishi said than Foley. I'm not at all cool with what Foley said but I kinda chalk it up to something an Antonio Brown from the NFL would say and not the people he hired to be silly on his twitter like the Iron Shiek guys. I'd read it, say "damn that's not cool at all" and not forgive them but more or less be thinking about the hundreds or thousands of times he's said he's gotten brain damage. It isn't excusing them or taking away their agency but it clashes so hard with a bunch of the other shit he's been really great on that I have to feel this is some type of coping mechanism on his end. No way of really knowing though. Rikishi's statement though, that just reads as someone saying look at what this guy has done for all of us while Mick's I think is a bit more layered. Still hard as f*** to read but it is there. At least for me, and I assume others, it’s because Foley has been seen as one of the “better” guys for lack of a better term and because he’s publicly been an advocate for victims of sexual abuse. It makes it particularly bad for that reason. What Rikishi said is awful, but I’m not particularly shocked when any random wrestler says a bad thing of that sort now. But I thought more highly of Foley in particular so it matters more. |
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 18, 2024 16:00:59 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised people aren't more mad at what Rikishi said than Foley. I'm not at all cool with what Foley said but I kinda chalk it up to something an Antonio Brown from the NFL would say and not the people he hired to be silly on his twitter like the Iron Shiek guys. I'd read it, say "damn that's not cool at all" and not forgive them but more or less be thinking about the hundreds or thousands of times he's said he's gotten brain damage. It isn't excusing them or taking away their agency but it clashes so hard with a bunch of the other shit he's been really great on that I have to feel this is some type of coping mechanism on his end. No way of really knowing though. Rikishi's statement though, that just reads as someone saying look at what this guy has done for all of us while Mick's I think is a bit more layered. Still hard as f*** to read but it is there. At least for me, and I assume others, it’s because Foley has been seen as one of the “better” guys for lack of a better term and because he’s publicly been an advocate for victims of sexual abuse. It makes it particularly bad for that reason. What Rikishi said is awful, but I’m not particularly shocked when any random wrestler says a bad thing of that sort now. But I thought more highly of Foley in particular so it matters more. Yeah that's fair. It's a little different for me because I remember hearing Foley say some stupid shit about all of this already months ago, closer to when all of this came out. He said something akin to "I hope this doesn't take away from the things he created, including my character" but as the same time saying it reminded him of when he found about about Benoit and that whole situation. He also went on to say how tremendously sad all of it made him. Again it's no excuse but if anyone back then saw Vince as a father figure and put up with his constant abusive bullshit on the men's side, I would personally put my money on Foley. Him and Jim Ross. I think he should apologize but to me this is clearly a guy who has no idea what to think and said some absurdly stupid shit which again, trauma. |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 18, 2024 16:05:18 GMT -5
Rikishi has already been acting like kind of a dumbass for awhile now. So while what he said was gross, it's not exactly unexpected.
If Foley wasn't an outspoken advocate for victims of sex crimes, I'd be disappointed because I did like Foley a lot and he was nice when I met him. But not to this degree where it almost comes off like a betrayal of what he's stood for in the past.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 18, 2024 16:06:07 GMT -5
While Foley's quotes aren't as bad, it hurts more because he's spent years building up this reputation as a good guy doing a lot of work for the cause. He has further to fall because he's built the expectation. A soccer player had a similar case a couple of years ago. Saudi Arabia decided to build up their league, so they pay stupid money to a lot of top stars later in their career. As I'm sure we all know, not the most enlightened place for lgbt rights. But only 1 player got any heat for going there on those grounds. Jordan Henderson, captain of one of the biggest teams in the world, player for England... and someone who put in the work with lgbt organisations and doing good work. So when HE goes there, they photoshop out the rainbow armband etc. He has broken that trust other players didn't have and became completely radioactive. Or one of the other big stories of recent weeks, rock star cheats on his wife? What else is new? Dave Grohl the nicest rock star ever? That's a betrayal. When you build up a reputation, you need to be more careful around those issues than generic celebrity #3688 |
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 18, 2024 16:07:35 GMT -5
The only personal things I know about Rikishi are that he's bragged about not washing his wrestling gear, is very helicopter parent when it comes to the Usos, and is a surprisingly good rapper. What he said sucks too but it's like the town drunk doing something stupid.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 18, 2024 16:12:12 GMT -5
While Foley's quotes aren't as bad, it hurts more because he's spent years building up this reputation as a good guy doing a lot of work for the cause. He has further to fall because he's built the expectation. A soccer player had a similar case a couple of years ago. Saudi Arabia decided to build up their league, so they pay stupid money to a lot of top stars later in their career. As I'm sure we all know, not the most enlightened place for lgbt rights. But only 1 player got any heat for going there on those grounds. Jordan Henderson, captain of one of the biggest teams in the world, player for England... and someone who put in the work with lgbt organisations and doing good work. So when HE goes there, they photoshop out the rainbow armband etc. He has broken that trust other players didn't have and became completely radioactive. Or one of the other big stories of recent weeks, rock star cheats on his wife? What else is new? Dave Grohl the nicest rock star ever? That's a betrayal. When you build up a reputation, you need to be more careful around those issues than generic celebrity #3688 that's a really good point with the dave grohl thing, any other rock star it would be like "okay yeah i presumed that" but with the image that Grohl built like some Keanu Reeves of rock deal, it did hurt a lot more. i suppose a lot of this comes from again, Foley has already put his foot in his mouth about this before and maybe a lot of people didn't see that already or it didn't reach the level of this incident itself. prrrrrrrrrrrrrrobably also doesn't hurt that i never considered him one of my all time favorites so if people are upset with him because of what he said AND the fact that they looked up to him or his previous work with organizations, that's totally understandable. what i'm trying to say is i can see how he could do all of that and still say the very hurtful shit that he did, this is clearly someone not having great success at coming to terms with any of this and putting it off. in putting it off though, that itself can be argued as cruel and affording Vince the leeway that isn't being given to the person who does deserve it, the victim herself and whoever else. |
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 18, 2024 16:15:24 GMT -5
The only personal things I know about Rikishi are that he's bragged about not washing his wrestling gear, is very helicopter parent when it comes to the Usos, and is a surprisingly good rapper. What he said sucks too but it's like the town drunk doing something stupid. I think we can all agree on Rikishi being a bigger dumbass, we already have a thread of him saying stupid shit on here that was active just the other day lmao. To me though, Rikishi's shit didn't come off as layered whatsoever and made ME want to say hey f*** that guy while Mick's was more of a "the f*** are you doing?". Which I suppose does lead back around to having different expectations for different wrestlers. Rikishi's to me seems like it doesn't have a speck of feeling for the victim whatsoever but obviously it's more than fine to be angry at both. By no means do people need to be angry at just one person or anything like that. |
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