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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 21, 2024 0:27:14 GMT -5
Now Cena never went heel during his top guy run. I think part of it was Vince and part of it was Cena (I think he jedi mind tricked Vince into not going with it). But if Triple H was booking 10-15 years earlier, do you think he would have done it? I think perfect time to turn Cena heel was mania 29 against the Rock
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Feb 21, 2024 1:02:18 GMT -5
Now Cena never went heel during his top guy run. I think part of it was Vince and part of it was Cena (I think he jedi mind tricked Vince into not going with it). Rumour was that Cena wanted to go heel after his feud with Edge had finished. The reason Vince never turned Cena heel was because he was making the company too much money and was too valuable as a top face, not because Cena used the jedi mind trick. If you believe that Cena beat Vince at his own game by using the jedi mind trick, I have a bridge to sell you. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 21, 2024 1:13:31 GMT -5
Now Cena never went heel during his top guy run. I think part of it was Vince and part of it was Cena (I think he jedi mind tricked Vince into not going with it). Rumour was that Cena wanted to go heel after his feud with Edge had finished. The reason Vince never turned Cena heel was because he was making the company too much money and was too valuable as a top face, not because Cena used the jedi mind trick. If you believe that Cena beat Vince at his own game by using the jedi mind trick, I have a bridge to sell you. Cena even put money down on new heel gear after his feud with the Rock, and at the last minute it was cancelled. He went to the PC and gave the deposit to a bunch of the trainees there so they could get some high quality gear made. edit: That said, no I don't see them going with it for the same reason, Cena is the cash cow for most of the career half the people are already booing him why bother giving up the money you're making from the rest of the crowd so they can "correctly" boo him. Likely the only reason he didn't turn heel is that Brock finally agreed to come back and they didn't want to try and keep two monster hoss main event heels over at the same time. |
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Feb 21, 2024 1:20:21 GMT -5
Maybe it's because I just watched a review of one PPV with him as WCW Champion, but for some reason I picture a Heel Cena being like a slightly more sane 2000/2001 Scott Steiner: destroying your heroes and bragging about it because he's that much more a physical specimen than they are and such.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 21, 2024 8:31:09 GMT -5
Maybe it's because I just watched a review of one PPV with him as WCW Champion, but for some reason I picture a Heel Cena being like a slightly more sane 2000/2001 Scott Steiner: destroying your heroes and bragging about it because he's that much more a physical specimen than they are and such. I've always maintained that the ideal Cena heel run would be changing almost nothing about him except who he goes after. Blasting people with chairs and then saying 'doin' it for the kids.' It'd be amazing. And yes, I do think Hunter would have turned Cena heel *eventually*, but like, tail end of his run when he was already winding down like 2014. |
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krozor
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Post by krozor on Feb 21, 2024 9:16:45 GMT -5
Rumour was that Cena wanted to go heel after his feud with Edge had finished. The reason Vince never turned Cena heel was because he was making the company too much money and was too valuable as a top face, not because Cena used the jedi mind trick. If you believe that Cena beat Vince at his own game by using the jedi mind trick, I have a bridge to sell you. Cena even put money down on new heel gear after his feud with the Rock, and at the last minute it was cancelled. He went to the PC and gave the deposit to a bunch of the trainees there so they could get some high quality gear made. I've always wondered who got the money and what gear was made with it. They should have/still should run an angle where the gear made with Cena's heel gear money is haunted with all of the sinister energy from Cena's repressed dark side that turns the people who wear it evil. HBK would run with this, you can have this one, Shawn. |
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 21, 2024 10:12:16 GMT -5
Weird, I made a post about this last night but maybe I forgot to post it or it got deleted?
I'll just restate my point: I'd have had a Bobby Heenan-at-Bash-at-the-Beach-1996 reaction to a Cena heel turn. "I've been saying it all these years!" Dude was always a heel, it's just that most people didn't see it, and maybe they didn't want to see it. And so many of his angles took the subtext of "wait, isn't this kind of heelish?" and made it the actual text of the show.
From some of the facts Punk was laying down in 2011, Cena being a crappy friend to Zack Ryder, Cena's treatment of Eve Torres, Cena feuding with the Rock and promising to never change then immediately breaking his word when he reverted back to the Thuganomics Era for a promo, Cena literally on the side of the Authority at the end of some episode of Raw, and the fact it was easy to see more similarities than differences between he and Bray Wyatt in their first feud. Oh, and let's not forget how bad he looked when he slid into Rey Mysterio's DMs about wanting a WWE title shot just after Rey had won it or defended it!
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fg
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Post by fg on Feb 21, 2024 10:32:08 GMT -5
Weird, I made a post about this last night but maybe I forgot to post it or it got deleted? I'll just restate my point: I'd have had a Bobby Heenan-at-Bash-at-the-Beach-1996 reaction to a Cena heel turn. "I've been saying it all these years!" Dude was always a heel, it's just that most people didn't see it, and maybe they didn't want to see it. And so many of his angles took the subtext of "wait, isn't this kind of heelish?" and made it the actual text of the show. From some of the facts Punk was laying down in 2011, Cena being a crappy friend to Zack Ryder, Cena's treatment of Eve Torres, Cena feuding with the Rock and promising to never change then immediately breaking his word when he reverted back to the Thuganomics Era for a promo, Cena literally on the side of the Authority at the end of some episode of Raw, and the fact it was easy to see more similarities than differences between he and Bray Wyatt in their first feud. Oh, and let's not forget how bad he looked when he slid into Rey Mysterio's DMs about wanting a WWE title shot just after Rey had won it or defended it! About Cena wanting a title shot against Rey… After winning the titoe, HHH came out and said he spoke to both John and Rey that this match needs to happen tonight. John didn’t challenge Rey after Rey won it. |
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Post by darbus alan on Feb 21, 2024 11:02:50 GMT -5
I think he would've eventually. Heels sell merch, too. Especially "cool heels". As much as that excuse was used for keeping him face, I still think it was mostly Vince McMahon's ego that didn't make him turn.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 21, 2024 11:26:57 GMT -5
Weird, I made a post about this last night but maybe I forgot to post it or it got deleted? I'll just restate my point: I'd have had a Bobby Heenan-at-Bash-at-the-Beach-1996 reaction to a Cena heel turn. "I've been saying it all these years!" Dude was always a heel, it's just that most people didn't see it, and maybe they didn't want to see it. And so many of his angles took the subtext of "wait, isn't this kind of heelish?" and made it the actual text of the show. From some of the facts Punk was laying down in 2011, Cena being a crappy friend to Zack Ryder, Cena's treatment of Eve Torres, Cena feuding with the Rock and promising to never change then immediately breaking his word when he reverted back to the Thuganomics Era for a promo, Cena literally on the side of the Authority at the end of some episode of Raw, and the fact it was easy to see more similarities than differences between he and Bray Wyatt in their first feud. Oh, and let's not forget how bad he looked when he slid into Rey Mysterio's DMs about wanting a WWE title shot just after Rey had won it or defended it! About Cena wanting a title shot against Rey… After winning the titoe, HHH came out and said he spoke to both John and Rey that this match needs to happen tonight. John didn’t challenge Rey after Rey won it. Still makes Cena look terrible as a supposed babyface. He does exactly what the heel GM tells him to do. What a hero. If the heel GM was lying about talking to John and Rey, Cena doesn't come out and correct the record. And it makes Cena look like an opportunist to wrestle another babyface for a title when the other babyface had a title match earlier in the night. If Rey actually agreed to the match, then he looks like a total dumbass, and now you've buried both babyfaces. If Cena had said, okay, let's have this match next week, I want Rey at his best, I want Rey fresh, I'd have no complaints, but that's not what happened. |
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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 21, 2024 11:34:03 GMT -5
About Cena wanting a title shot against Rey… After winning the titoe, HHH came out and said he spoke to both John and Rey that this match needs to happen tonight. John didn’t challenge Rey after Rey won it. Still makes Cena look terrible as a supposed babyface. He does exactly what the heel GM tells him to do. What a hero. If the heel GM was lying about talking to John and Rey, Cena doesn't come out and correct the record. And it makes Cena look like an opportunist to wrestle another babyface for a title when the other babyface had a title match earlier in the night. If Rey actually agreed to the match, then he looks like a total dumbass, and now you've buried both babyfaces. If Cena had said, okay, let's have this match next week, I want Rey at his best, I want Rey fresh, I'd have no complaints, but that's not what happened. I think Hunter looks the worst in all of this. He was a babyface GM lol |
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 21, 2024 11:36:27 GMT -5
Still makes Cena look terrible as a supposed babyface. He does exactly what the heel GM tells him to do. What a hero. If the heel GM was lying about talking to John and Rey, Cena doesn't come out and correct the record. And it makes Cena look like an opportunist to wrestle another babyface for a title when the other babyface had a title match earlier in the night. If Rey actually agreed to the match, then he looks like a total dumbass, and now you've buried both babyfaces. If Cena had said, okay, let's have this match next week, I want Rey at his best, I want Rey fresh, I'd have no complaints, but that's not what happened. I think Hunter looks the worst in all of this. He was a babyface GM lol Was he? Ha, even when Triple H is good, he's bad. It still wasn't a good look for Cena regardless. And Rey has always kind of been a dumbass in kayfabe, so that's consistent, at least. EDIT: Here's the Raw thread for the show in which Cena, Mysterio, and Triple H all came out looking bad and/or dumb, based on many people's responses to the night's events. officialfan.proboards.com/thread/399480/raw-25-thread-boss-bosses |
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
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Post by Nosnorb on Feb 21, 2024 12:28:17 GMT -5
Dumbass. Bad Friend. Bad Dad.
The three pillars of Rey Mysterio in Kayfabe.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Feb 21, 2024 14:57:34 GMT -5
Honestly I doubt Cena would have ever gone heel. As negative a reaction as he got from older fans, he was still far and away the biggest merch mover. Kids loved the guy and WWE would have probably been cutting off their nose to spite their face if they turned on him. Same reason Hogan never turned heel during his original run, and why turning Steve Austin heel was a monumentally stupid decision.
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Post by clc on Feb 21, 2024 16:05:03 GMT -5
Cena already got booed by half the crowd.
Turning him heel would still result in a 50/50 reaction but now you lost your Make-A-Wish guy too. It's a dumb move.
HHH would have kept him face.
Also we have seen that HHH can be really stubborn with his brand of booking, so once that idea that "Cena is always face" was there, I doubt HHH would deviate.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Feb 21, 2024 16:08:59 GMT -5
HHH would have teased a heel turn for Big Match John™ and done like 4 years of slowburn maybe building to it as people are like "let Papa H cook it'll be worth the wait" and then never got around to the actual turn.
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Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Feb 21, 2024 19:07:38 GMT -5
Cena already got booed by half the crowd. Turning him heel would still result in a 50/50 reaction but now you lost your Make-A-Wish guy too. It's a dumb move. HHH would have kept him face. Also we have seen that HHH can be really stubborn with his brand of booking, so once that idea that "Cena is always face" was there, I doubt HHH would deviate. I’m not sure about that. Miz has been one of their biggest promotional faces for a very long time and has been a heel for 90% of that time. Rock just turned heel and people are cheering him harder. |
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Post by RI Richmark on Feb 21, 2024 19:15:52 GMT -5
Personally I'm glad Cena never turned heel. Turning heel would be giving in to his critics. Him staying true to his convictions and not letting the critics get to him showed true strength and character.
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Post by darthobiwan on Feb 21, 2024 22:09:00 GMT -5
1. Merchandise sells were always at the top for him.
2. "He gets a reaction either way, so he is over".
3. Too much put into Make A Wish.
4. Wwe did not have serious competition to take any chances (and TNA and ROH did not count for this).
5. With Stone Colds 2001 Heel not being well-received, they were having cold-feet making Cena one.
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fg
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Post by fg on Feb 21, 2024 22:33:26 GMT -5
Personally I'm glad Cena never turned heel. Turning heel would be giving in to his critics. Him staying true to his convictions and not letting the critics get to him showed true strength and character. I guess you can say his face character was something different in that he wasn’t going to change (aka side with heels etc.) no matter if the fans booed him unlike other wrestlers. But under normal circumstances, if a face gets booed a lot, the company should turn them heel. |
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