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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Feb 22, 2024 20:32:49 GMT -5
Jey wins, and it validates him as a character, his motivations, and leaving the Bloodline.
Jimmy wins, and so what? His momentum died the minute he went back to Roman. He's stale. Winning over Jey won't magically make him relevant.
That being said Jimmy will probably win, but Jey definitely should.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 22, 2024 20:35:14 GMT -5
Another thing is, like... Has Jey at any point gotten any sort of leg-up on Jimmy whatsoever since they broke up? Jimmy cost him the WWE title, he cost him the tag titles, he cost him the Intercontinental title, and Jey's gotten nothing in return.
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gl83
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,226
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Post by gl83 on Feb 22, 2024 20:38:43 GMT -5
Another thing is, like... Has Jey at any point gotten any sort of leg-up on Jimmy whatsoever since they broke up? Jimmy cost him the WWE title, he cost him the tag titles, he cost him the Intercontinental title, and Jey's gotten nothing in return. The various Faces on Smackdown have done a better job of bitching out Jimmy and getting revenge than Jey has....
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on Feb 23, 2024 1:14:08 GMT -5
Cody's a generational talent. Nobody else on the current WWE roster has his connection to the audience. He's the sole exception. Plus, Cody losing to Roman - the most protected WWE wrestler this side of the millennium - is A LOT different than Jey losing to the guy who hasn't had a meaningful singles victory ever. Individual wins and losses absolutely matter. Look at the last twenty years of guys who momentum who've had it hindered due to 50/50 booking and losing when it really mattered. Nah, they really don't. In reality wrestling fans for the most part believe what they're seeing when it comes to wrestlers they like. If WWE want to push someone and fans want to get behind them, nobody holds the fact that they lost x match at some point in the past against them. Shinsuke Nakamura is the poster boy for being booked as a choke artist when it comes to the big one. And yet it took basically no effort at all to get him to the point where he was a credible challenger again last year. And if he'd have won Seth's world title, people would've been delighted, they wouldn't have rejected it because he'd lost however many title shots beforehand. Nobody rejected Kofi Mania because he was a career midcarder. Austin Theory beat John Cena at WrestleMania last year and will do well to make the pre-show this year. The idea of one win or one loss making or breaking someone just isn't true. And that's talking about some guys who actually spent long periods losing or being total afterthoughts. Not a guy in the midst of a consistent push who may lose one match in a feud he seems certain to win. Shinsuke took a complete presentation reboot to make him credible again. Kofi took a concentrated effort to maximized lightning in a bottle for that magical moment to happen, and it absolutely had to happen at Wrestlemania - which if Kofi lost the whole moment would have capsized. Fans get burned out if WWE doesn't want to push them and we see ones they get behind lose their interest. We have decades to back that up. Look at how over Ryback was, or Ryder or Sandow/Mizdow and the diminishing returns as they lost at their big moments over and over. It causes fans to lose interest at best or actively dislike at worst.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 23, 2024 3:51:54 GMT -5
Nah, they really don't. In reality wrestling fans for the most part believe what they're seeing when it comes to wrestlers they like. If WWE want to push someone and fans want to get behind them, nobody holds the fact that they lost x match at some point in the past against them. Shinsuke Nakamura is the poster boy for being booked as a choke artist when it comes to the big one. And yet it took basically no effort at all to get him to the point where he was a credible challenger again last year. And if he'd have won Seth's world title, people would've been delighted, they wouldn't have rejected it because he'd lost however many title shots beforehand. Nobody rejected Kofi Mania because he was a career midcarder. Austin Theory beat John Cena at WrestleMania last year and will do well to make the pre-show this year. The idea of one win or one loss making or breaking someone just isn't true. And that's talking about some guys who actually spent long periods losing or being total afterthoughts. Not a guy in the midst of a consistent push who may lose one match in a feud he seems certain to win. Shinsuke took a complete presentation reboot to make him credible again. Kofi took a concentrated effort to maximized lightning in a bottle for that magical moment to happen, and it absolutely had to happen at Wrestlemania - which if Kofi lost the whole moment would have capsized. Fans get burned out if WWE doesn't want to push them and we see ones they get behind lose their interest. We have decades to back that up. Look at how over Ryback was, or Ryder or Sandow/Mizdow and the diminishing returns as they lost at their big moments over and over. It causes fans to lose interest at best or actively dislike at worst. The reason Sandow, Ryback and Ryder didn't make it as long lasting fixtures at the upper end of the card isn't because they lost one match. It's because WWE didn't see them that way in general and because (in at least two of those examples) they were nowhere near good enough. To your point, Zack Ryder is someone who had two of his biggest wins at WrestleMania. Those wins weren't rejected by the fans because Ryder had previously lost a lot. Equally, they didn't lead to anything because WWE had no interest in pushing him any further afterwards. Jey could win at WrestleMania and be screwed in the long run if WWE just see him as an over midcarder. He could lose at WrestleMania and be absolutely fine if they then put him in more high profile matches that he wins. The individual match result, even at WrestleMania, is not going to be the determining factor.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Feb 23, 2024 12:27:28 GMT -5
Shinsuke took a complete presentation reboot to make him credible again. Kofi took a concentrated effort to maximized lightning in a bottle for that magical moment to happen, and it absolutely had to happen at Wrestlemania - which if Kofi lost the whole moment would have capsized. Fans get burned out if WWE doesn't want to push them and we see ones they get behind lose their interest. We have decades to back that up. Look at how over Ryback was, or Ryder or Sandow/Mizdow and the diminishing returns as they lost at their big moments over and over. It causes fans to lose interest at best or actively dislike at worst. The reason Sandow, Ryback and Ryder didn't make it as long lasting fixtures at the upper end of the card isn't because they lost one match. It's because WWE didn't see them that way in general and because (in at least two of those examples) they were nowhere near good enough. To your point, Zack Ryder is someone who had two of his biggest wins at WrestleMania. Those wins weren't rejected by the fans because Ryder had previously lost a lot. Equally, they didn't lead to anything because WWE had no interest in pushing him any further afterwards. Jey could win at WrestleMania and be screwed in the long run if WWE just see him as an over midcarder. He could lose at WrestleMania and be absolutely fine if they then put him in more high profile matches that he wins. The individual match result, even at WrestleMania, is not going to be the determining factor. It's true that Sandow, Ryback and Ryder didn't make it due to losing one match, but in the case of Ryback and Sandow, one match pretty much killed off their cred after being booked on losing streaks. After spending spring and summer of 2012 getting well fed, Ryback went up against CM Punk in the Cell and bottled it. Dude then went on a PPV losing streak, and his match with Mark Henry at 'mania was when his goose was well and truly cooked. Dude looked like an absolute doofus when he lost after Mark Henry fell on him, and that match didn't exactly do much for Mark either. Ryback was over as f***, but his heat was killed by not being able to get the job done on PPV and he was never as over.
Sandow also was done in with a losing streak then a match that made him look awful with his cash in on a one armed John Cena. Dude fell down the card and became a comedy jobber. He got back over with his tag team with The Miz that even the dead crowds of that time period were hot for, but instead of getting a push and beating (the then heatless and stale) Miz, dude lost and was put in a comedy jobber team with Curtis Axel that was killed off.
Those two were absolutely hurt by losing matches, and in particular matches in which they looked awful. And Jey will look awful if he loses to Jimmy at 'mania. How could he not, losing to the dude at the bottom of the Bloodline pecking order? The whole story of Jey is to prove that he can get it done on his own, and so far, dude has no solo victories on PPV and no solo victories in title matches. Since going solo, his only success has come by teaming with Cody and also as part of a Wargames team. If Jimmy beats him, then it shows that dude can't cut the mustard as a singles act and that he can call himself "Main Event" all he wants, in the end that is false advertising as he needed his brother to win then, and now he needs other people to get it done now.
There is also the issue of where Jimmy stands in relation to the Bloodline. Right now, it is totally fair, totally reasonable, absolutely objective and completely accurate to call Jimmy Uso Roman's Bitch. And Jimmy is that due to his own choice. He left the Bloodline, then after f***ing over Jey, went running back to Roman and after cosplaying as the Tribal Chief, Roman shut that down with "Now imagine if I was joking". This isn't a dude that has been press ganged into membership of the Bloodline or doing it for financial reasons - Jimmy made his bed and is now more than happy sleeping in it.
Jey losing would prove Jimmy right, and would mean that Jimmy, over the course of around 6 months, has cost his brother the mantle of Tribal Chief, the Undisputed Title, the tag titles, the IC title, a match at 'mania with Gunther for the IC title, and Jey would have gotten basically nothing back. Jey beating Jimmy after 'mania, after the better part of a year in which his brother has screwed him out of so much, would feel like too little, and way too late. And doing all that hasn't heated up or elevated Jimmy, dude is still a goon for his cousin entirely of his own choice.
And sure, they could put Jey in high profile matches that he wins, but it's going to be a lot harder to get fans invested in him if he loses to his Bitch brother at 'mania, and you run the risk of damaging his heat and overness. Dude isn't an underdog face, he's Main Event Jey Uso who lines them all up and knocks them down like this. And speaking of underdog faces, look at Danielson in AEW. The program with MJF should have been an absolutely awesome feud with Bryan on the warpath looking for revenge for his mentor getting taken out by MJF fell flat, because after choking in so many important matches, nobody brought Bryan as having a chance at getting payback on Max.
Look at Braun in 2018 - dude bottled it and pissed away so much of his heat. Hell, look at Jey's own cousin - Roman was booked as a choke artist and a dude that couldn't get it done, leading to an absolute wet fart feud with Beastie Boy. Jey has absolutely massive babyface energy, risking that and his overness and his connection with the crowd by making him the Bitch of Roman's Bitch would be absolute folly.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 24, 2024 3:44:16 GMT -5
I remember a time when a wrestling promotion wanting to make stars had those stars win big matches and come out on otp of feuds to build them up, instead of going 'nah actually it's fine we can heat them back up, just kinda do whatever, everyone'll be here waiting for the day we actually wanna do something". It's an attitude that has hampered WWE's ability to make stars.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Feb 24, 2024 3:46:14 GMT -5
I know these two want to fight and the storyline does call for it but I don't really think Jimmmmmmmmmmy can ever really come off as credible against Jey, even with a hypothetical win at WM?
Get the match out of the way cause the brothers want it bad but meh. I think there are much better things each of them could be doing regardless of the potential match outcome.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 24, 2024 3:56:15 GMT -5
I remember a time when a wrestling promotion wanting to make stars had those stars win big matches and come out on otp of feuds to build them up, instead of going 'nah actually it's fine we can heat them back up, just kinda do whatever, everyone'll be here waiting for the day we actually wanna do something". It's an attitude that has hampered WWE's ability to make stars. Which then led to the widespread belief that for a wrestler to deemed worthy of investing in, they have to win every match and every feud, until such to be determined time when they don't have to do that. Don't get me wrong, it IS WWE's fault that things are like this. But we should be able to have matches between big stars where someone losing isn't the end of them, you know?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 24, 2024 4:19:23 GMT -5
I remember a time when a wrestling promotion wanting to make stars had those stars win big matches and come out on otp of feuds to build them up, instead of going 'nah actually it's fine we can heat them back up, just kinda do whatever, everyone'll be here waiting for the day we actually wanna do something". It's an attitude that has hampered WWE's ability to make stars. Which then led to the widespread belief that for a wrestler to deemed worthy of investing in, they have to win every match and every feud, until such to be determined time when they don't have to do that. Don't get me wrong, it IS WWE's fault that things are like this. But we should be able to have matches between big stars where someone losing isn't the end of them, you know? I mean you're getting into those 'different people dislike different things again and all of these are the same' thing again, but I don't think these are separate issues. WWE used to make stars and used to know how to do this, and when they go all in it actually does work. But there's now this fleet of guys littering history who they went "We can warm them back up" and they never do and it's taught the audience to see a bunch of peopel the company won't push, and a bunch of choke artist filler guys. This isn't about if it's okay for people to lose matches, it's about people who sit on the verge of something and then get their big moment yanked away from them for reasons known only to God. It's an insane and frustrating pattern in WWE.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Feb 24, 2024 10:42:21 GMT -5
I know these two want to fight and the storyline does call for it but I don't really think Jimmmmmmmmmmy can ever really come off as credible against Jey, even with a hypothetical win at WM? Get the match out of the way cause the brothers want it bad but meh. I think there are much better things each of them could be doing regardless of the potential match outcome. The thing is, Jimmmy shouldn't come off as credible against Jey when taking into their positions in kayfabe. Jey is Main Event Jey Uso, and Jimmmy is a dude that hasn't won a match that mattered in months and is the job guy for The Bloodline. But the build up to the feud has felt like rather than Jimmmy rising to the level of Jey, it's been Jey sliding to the level of Jimmmy. If Jimmmy does win at 'mania (which he shouldn't because it would be a f***ing stupid decision), it would elevate him, but totally at the expense of Jey, who has gotten nothing in terms of payback on Jimmmy, while if WWE had built Jimmmy up in preparation in facing Jey, Jimmmy would have come out of a loss to his brother at a higher level than if he beats Jey at 'mania with Jey failing to live up to his nickname. And if Jimmmy does beat Jey at 'mania to set up another match down the line, it just stretches out a feud that started in August last year even further out and risks the eventual payoff of Jey beating Jimmmy feel like too little and too late. After Jimmmy cost his brother the titles at Summerslam, then the tag team titles, then the IC title then beats him at 'mania, Jey finally getting a win at a B level PPV won't be enough and even though Jey will have won the feud, it won't feel like it.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 24, 2024 11:48:15 GMT -5
Which then led to the widespread belief that for a wrestler to deemed worthy of investing in, they have to win every match and every feud, until such to be determined time when they don't have to do that. Don't get me wrong, it IS WWE's fault that things are like this. But we should be able to have matches between big stars where someone losing isn't the end of them, you know? I mean you're getting into those 'different people dislike different things again and all of these are the same' thing again, but I don't think these are separate issues. WWE used to make stars and used to know how to do this, and when they go all in it actually does work. But there's now this fleet of guys littering history who they went "We can warm them back up" and they never do and it's taught the audience to see a bunch of peopel the company won't push, and a bunch of choke artist filler guys. This isn't about if it's okay for people to lose matches, it's about people who sit on the verge of something and then get their big moment yanked away from them for reasons known only to God. It's an insane and frustrating pattern in WWE. WWE still makes stars, and at an even better rate than they did previously. How many people in the last few years have elevated into singles superstardom? Rhea, Bianca, Sami, Becky (around 5 years ago), Jey, Drew, Seth has leveled up since his Authority and eye gouging days, Roman has leveled up, Knight, Gunther, etc. Some of those have been booked dominantly with big wins constantly, some have done it without being booked in that fashion. Now that doesn’t mean some people haven’t been hurt by booking like Shinsuke in 2018 and some of Finn’s booking along the way, but I think overall they’ve been able to establish stars without necessarily always having the hero prevail in the big matches.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Feb 24, 2024 12:00:49 GMT -5
WrestleMania 40 needs to be the most "The Most Popular Wrestler Wins" nights they've ever done. Give people no excuses to complain right now.
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