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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 3, 2024 15:48:07 GMT -5
Yes, Bart Gunn was a relatively good amature boxer when in a contest filled with street fighters, but Butterbean had 100lbs and 10 years of experience on Bart.
The average person can punch with a total of 360-450 pounds of force, which in the right circumstances has killed people in the past. Butterbean could punch three times that hard.
I would also like to note, Bart who likely punched at half the strength of Butterbean, more or less ended Dr Death's career via knockout.
Bart really should have sued WWE. This whole thing was horrid and I just don't see how upper WWE management could possibly ignore the real possibility (and outcome) of Bart being seriously injured, especially since almost everyone else in the Brawl for it All got seriously injured
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 3, 2024 15:52:46 GMT -5
It kind of surprises me Vince didn't take to Bart after the BFA win. If anything, Vince should have been pissed at Jim Ross and Steve Williams and not Bart. Bart was a WWF guy, his fame came from WWF as a Smoking Gunn and Vince kept him on even though he was pretty low card after the breakup. Around this time, many low card guys went on to be repackaged and find their best gimmick like Godfather and Hardcore Holly (1998/99) but not Bart.
As much as I hate Vince putting down JR, Vince should have used the Bart BFA win to put it in Jim's face that Dr. Death wasn't "the man" and also run with Bart. That would have saved Bart's career in the states. But really, Bart didn't have the charisma to keep a higher profile in WWF at the time.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 3, 2024 15:55:46 GMT -5
I think what happened with Owen and the decade of unrestricted painkiller and steroid abuse from the 80s to early 90s and the post steroid trial 90s to Benoit's crimes say all you need to know about the regard the WWE have for the wellbeing of their workers. They knew there was a good chance he would get hurt, given that a lot of the BFA contestants were put on the shelf by the contest, they just didn't care.
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Post by johncasey on Mar 3, 2024 18:21:53 GMT -5
It kind of surprises me Vince didn't take to Bart after the BFA win. If anything, Vince should have been pissed at Jim Ross and Steve Williams and not Bart. Bart was a WWF guy, his fame came from WWF as a Smoking Gunn and Vince kept him on even though he was pretty low card after the breakup. Around this time, many low card guys went on to be repackaged and find their best gimmick like Godfather and Hardcore Holly (1998/99) but not Bart. As much as I hate Vince putting down JR, Vince should have used the Bart BFA win to put it in Jim's face that Dr. Death wasn't "the man" and also run with Bart. That would have saved Bart's career in the states. But really, Bart didn't have the charisma to keep a higher profile in WWF at the time. I've said that he should have had a Enforcer/Bodyguard gimmick. Could have called him The Hired Gunn |
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Post by johncasey on Mar 3, 2024 18:24:32 GMT -5
Did WWE have to get special licencing for the Tournament as it was actually Fights or have extra safety precautions.
Didn't Bradshaw wrestle a week after getting viciously knock out.
I know it was 1998 and things were different back then but I would have imagined that some sort of procedures had to be in place.
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Post by WayTooPolitical on Mar 3, 2024 18:53:28 GMT -5
Boxing is a sport that involves people who are well-trained at punching people in the head, doing just that. Anybody who participates in a real boxing match has a chance of dying, or at least suffering brain injuries.
People who participate in that sport are usually aware of the risks.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Mar 3, 2024 19:26:01 GMT -5
Did anyone know it was a shoot?
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Aceorton
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Post by Aceorton on Mar 3, 2024 19:39:55 GMT -5
Did anyone know it was a shoot? I don't think I did until Butterbean was putting his fist through Bart's face. He had done a story angle with Mero in late '97, so there was reason to think it would be a worked thing. I remember watching the PPV with friends and thinking, "Oh, shit, they're really doing this." |
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 3, 2024 19:52:27 GMT -5
Bart's fall looked worse than Apollo Creed's in Rocky 4. His whole body turned into a noodle.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Mar 3, 2024 20:04:10 GMT -5
Boxers only die in the ring when they take head trauma for 10+ rounds and usually it’s the lighter guys that have also cut a ton of weight and dehydrated themselves. I don’t think that there’s ever been an instance of a heavyweight getting killed with one punch. Bart was definitely KOd badly but I’m not even sure that it was as bad as the time that Mike Tyson KOd Marvis Frazier. That was an assassination.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Mar 3, 2024 20:12:19 GMT -5
You can kill with one punch to the head. Happened to a guy I knew, a guy groped his girlfriend in a nightclub so he knocked him out. The guy even got up and walked away only to collapse at his workplace the next day and not get back up again. The puncher got 5 yrs for manslaughter, victims family appealed and got it bumped up to 7.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Mar 4, 2024 0:43:33 GMT -5
Did anyone know it was a shoot? I don't think I did until Butterbean was putting his fist through Bart's face. He had done a story angle with Mero in late '97, so there was reason to think it would be a worked thing. I remember watching the PPV with friends and thinking, "Oh, shit, they're really doing this." Worst part of it was, Butterbean actually offered to make it a worked thing and put Bart over. |
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Post by nickcave on Mar 4, 2024 2:49:54 GMT -5
It kind of surprises me Vince didn't take to Bart after the BFA win. If anything, Vince should have been pissed at Jim Ross and Steve Williams and not Bart. Bart was a WWF guy, his fame came from WWF as a Smoking Gunn and Vince kept him on even though he was pretty low card after the breakup. Around this time, many low card guys went on to be repackaged and find their best gimmick like Godfather and Hardcore Holly (1998/99) but not Bart. As much as I hate Vince putting down JR, Vince should have used the Bart BFA win to put it in Jim's face that Dr. Death wasn't "the man" and also run with Bart. That would have saved Bart's career in the states. But really, Bart didn't have the charisma to keep a higher profile in WWF at the time. From what Bruce Prichard has said (so take it with a grain of salt) Vince legit thought Bart could beat Butterbean. They took him off tv and had him go through legit training leading up to it. Knowing how Vince views body type as an indication of toughness I can see him thinking Bart could beat a guy that looks like Butterbean. Vince is also the guy who told Jericho he could take Frank Shamrock when he showed up with Micky Rourke at Wrestlemania lol |
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Post by Aceorton on Mar 4, 2024 10:48:36 GMT -5
Can't remember if this was covered anywhere in shoots or on DSOTR, but was there was explanation for why Bart didn't take advantage of the other BFA rules? Seems like he would have had a far better chance if he'd gone for Butterbean's legs and maybe a knockout shot while Butterbean was getting up/hurt (the same way he beat Dr. Death) than to just go at him toe-to-toe like he did.
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Post by Dub H on Mar 4, 2024 19:06:41 GMT -5
Can't remember if this was covered anywhere in shoots or on DSOTR, but was there was explanation for why Bart didn't take advantage of the other BFA rules? Seems like he would have had a far better chance if he'd gone for Butterbean's legs and maybe a knockout shot while Butterbean was getting up/hurt (the same way he beat Dr. Death) than to just go at him toe-to-toe like he did. it was a boxing match not a BFA Match im pretty sure. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 4, 2024 19:08:46 GMT -5
Boxers only die in the ring when they take head trauma for 10+ rounds and usually it’s the lighter guys that have also cut a ton of weight and dehydrated themselves. I don’t think that there’s ever been an instance of a heavyweight getting killed with one punch. Bart was definitely KOd badly but I’m not even sure that it was as bad as the time that Mike Tyson KOd Marvis Frazier. That was an assassination. Yeah, the whole premise here is kinda weird. It was just a boxing match. |
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Post by fg on Mar 4, 2024 19:16:11 GMT -5
Can't remember if this was covered anywhere in shoots or on DSOTR, but was there was explanation for why Bart didn't take advantage of the other BFA rules? Seems like he would have had a far better chance if he'd gone for Butterbean's legs and maybe a knockout shot while Butterbean was getting up/hurt (the same way he beat Dr. Death) than to just go at him toe-to-toe like he did. it was a boxing match not a BFA Match im pretty sure. It was a Brawl For All. I remember seeing the graphic crawl on the screen and hearing Cole say something along the lines of: “It’s time for the Brawl For All.” |
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Mar 4, 2024 19:24:11 GMT -5
The match was booked as a punishment for Bart winning something he wasn't supposed to win. Plain and simple. As stated above, Butterbean was willing to do a worked fight and put Bart over, but they weren't trying to get him over. Same reason the other Brawl For All rules weren't in affect. They wanted to bury Bart completely.
As far as the fact that he could've died... knowing everything we know about Vince McMahon, in particular, and the culture of the WWF in general, does that REALLY surprise anyone? I'm not saying they were trying to get Bart killed for real, by the way. But they definitely wanted Butterbean to hurt him, injure him if possible. Because how DARE Bart get lucky in an unscripted fight that he wasn't supposed to win?!
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 4, 2024 19:30:27 GMT -5
The match was booked as a punishment for Bart winning something he wasn't supposed to win. Plain and simple. As stated above, Butterbean was willing to do a worked fight and put Bart over, but they weren't trying to get him over. Same reason the other Brawl For All rules weren't in affect. They wanted to bury Bart completely. As far as the fact that he could've died... knowing everything we know about Vince McMahon, in particular, and the culture of the WWF in general, does that REALLY surprise anyone? I'm not saying they were trying to get Bart killed for real, by the way. But they definitely wanted Butterbean to hurt him, injure him if possible. Because how DARE Bart get lucky in an unscripted fight that he wasn't supposed to win?! I don't think they were "TRYING" to get him killed, but I do think that if the worst case scenario HAD happened, Vince would have been like "See? Weaklings like him don't deserve to live." Vince is just that kinda wicked dude. |
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 5, 2024 0:25:35 GMT -5
I think the feeling was that, if Bart won, great, they can run with that.
If he loses? Big whoop, there wasn't much lost given how much of a fiasco the Brawl for All had been, anyway.
It's improbable that they considered Bart getting killed as likely, even if it wasn't, strictly speaking, impossible. Butterbean had taken out a lot of tomato cans by then, but I don't think he ever killed or crippled them.
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