asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 24,334
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Post by asuka007 on May 20, 2024 23:35:19 GMT -5
I like Lyra. But when you have Ilja, Tiffany, Carmelo, heck even Jade. The fact that Lyra is the newbie that thru chose to send to the finals. Yeah I question that honestly. Let me pose it to you this way, why do those you mention need something like this? Those you mention are being built outside of this, have been given TV time and hype, not needing to be a rookie surprise for lack of a better term. Winning it would also I presume get her a shot at the title which is held by the women she beat for the NXT title and saved when she debuted ok Raw. Very fair question. Here’s my response. They are all more over than Lyra is. I thought that you were supposed to be REWARDED for getting over. That’s how it’s supposed to work right? Not be beaten because of it. It goes back to that age old question. Should you win an accolade to try and get you over. Or should you already be over and THEN win an accolade as a result of that? Also Tiffany in particular has not won A match on TV since MARCH 8th. So that is another problem arguably. |
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The Gallus Mark
Unicron
Watching Icelandic Women’s Soccer Highlights
Posts: 2,589
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Post by The Gallus Mark on May 20, 2024 23:42:31 GMT -5
I like her, but don’t like her last name. I feel like it’s kinda hard to say.
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Post by Richard on May 20, 2024 23:48:39 GMT -5
Let me pose it to you this way, why do those you mention need something like this? Those you mention are being built outside of this, have been given TV time and hype, not needing to be a rookie surprise for lack of a better term. Winning it would also I presume get her a shot at the title which is held by the women she beat for the NXT title and saved when she debuted ok Raw. Very fair question. Here’s my response. They are all more over than Lyra is. I thought that you were supposed to be REWARDED for getting over. That’s how it’s supposed to work right? Not be beaten because of it. It goes back to that age old question. Should you win an accolade to try and get you over. Or should you already be over and THEN win an accolade as a result of that? Also Tiffany in particular has not won A match on TV since MARCH 8th. So that is another problem arguably. She's been on Raw less than a month and they're using a tournament to get her over. QotR isnt a reward or accolade, is just a plot point, a character builder. It's not a MitB or Royal Rumble where the winner is someone that destined to headline major. Good lord, the last (and only so far) Queen was Zelina Vega. |
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Post by mistery on May 20, 2024 23:51:21 GMT -5
To add onto this, I would be shocked if Becky doesn't lose to Liv at the Saudi show. And Lyra will probably either be the challenger at Clash against Liv, or tag with Becky to beat up Damage CTRL.
This is just speculation on my part, but I feel like there is a small bit of backstage politics at play regarding Lyra's push as well. Becky's contract is up in the next few weeks, and I would not be shocked if Lyra is only getting this push because of that. Becky has very openly talked about how Lyra is the future of the women's division, so WWE might be pushing her in order to please Becky and get her to sign a new deal.
Because I have a feeling that if Becky didn't have a vested interest in Lyra, the result would have been radically different tonight. Especially since Lyra is absolutely not clicking with audiences right now. And while it is still very early, things aren't looking too great right now either. She had this same problem in NXT where she was like the third most over person in her feuds, behind whoever she was feuding with and also Tatum (who carried the character work).
It doesn't help that tonight was a perfect storm as well, against Lyra. You have live audiences who have struggled to get invested into Lyra, against a woman who was built up like a badass during this tournament and also has found a new gear, enough to get audiences on her side despite being a heel (on top of her fanbase feeling utterly slighted because pretty much zero actual respect is put on her name by creative). This absolutely feels like WWE is trying to fight the audience on what they want. And while Becky will absolutely be fine at the end of the day, I can't rule out blowback from this towards Lyra. Because she is a great wrestler but has basically no charisma and its very hard to shake the notion that she wouldn't be where she is now if it wasn't for Becky.
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Post by 06vwgti on May 21, 2024 0:32:38 GMT -5
I like her, but don’t like her last name. I feel like it’s kinda hard to say. It is too close sounding to taya valkyrie... |
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 24,334
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Post by asuka007 on May 21, 2024 1:11:35 GMT -5
Very fair question. Here’s my response. They are all more over than Lyra is. I thought that you were supposed to be REWARDED for getting over. That’s how it’s supposed to work right? Not be beaten because of it. It goes back to that age old question. Should you win an accolade to try and get you over. Or should you already be over and THEN win an accolade as a result of that? Also Tiffany in particular has not won A match on TV since MARCH 8th. So that is another problem arguably. She's been on Raw less than a month and they're using a tournament to get her over. QotR isnt a reward or accolade, is just a plot point, a character builder. It's not a MitB or Royal Rumble where the winner is someone that destined to headline major. Good lord, the last (and only so far) Queen was Zelina Vega. That was Vince. Triple H is CLEARLY trying to make this thing feel like a bigger deal. When her HEEL opponent is getting cheered over her, there’s an issue. |
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Post by Lance Uppercut on May 21, 2024 2:55:26 GMT -5
I like her, but don’t like her last name. I feel like it’s kinda hard to say. It is too close sounding to taya valkyrie... Well her name before was Aoefa Valkyrie. I’m guess they changed it because Aoefa is really hard to pronounce if you’ve you never saw it before. And I guess because Frankie Monet was in nxt right around the time she showed up |
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Post by theironyuppie on May 21, 2024 2:59:31 GMT -5
She's been on Raw less than a month and they're using a tournament to get her over. QotR isnt a reward or accolade, is just a plot point, a character builder. It's not a MitB or Royal Rumble where the winner is someone that destined to headline major. Good lord, the last (and only so far) Queen was Zelina Vega. That was Vince. Triple H is CLEARLY trying to make this thing feel like a bigger deal. When her HEEL opponent is getting cheered over her, there’s an issue. Lyra got a good reception just last week, and Iyo typically doesn't wrestle like a heel. |
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Post by Topher is Human on May 21, 2024 3:25:48 GMT -5
I wouldn’t use Iyo getting cheered as a heel as a metric of a face not working. Iyo is special
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A Little Doo Doo
Salacious Crumb
An unconventional man with unconventional methods.
Posts: 74,697 
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on May 21, 2024 5:52:39 GMT -5
Man, it sucks how hardcore fans can turn you off a performer sometimes. {Spoiler}But enough about me annoying everyone with my Lexis King posts. |
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J is Justice
Patti Mayonnaise
Will now be grateful.
They say fantasies can't come true, only dreams can.
Posts: 32,620
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Post by J is Justice on May 21, 2024 5:55:42 GMT -5
I'd like her if she was called Lyra Valkyria Chronicles.
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Post by centeroftheuniverse on May 21, 2024 6:23:46 GMT -5
Quite surprised Lyra was the 2nd RAW pick in the 5th round of the draft, so their 10th pick overall. You'd think she would have been 2nd round minimum the way her main roster career has started.
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Post by Duke Cameron on May 21, 2024 6:37:50 GMT -5
I like Lyra and I’m more than happy to support her push.
I like Iyo too, but prefer both Asuka and Kairi to her and honestly have no further honest interest in her until they stop having every Asian woman on the main roster be a heel and turn her face. You know, what they seemed to be doing when she first won Money in the Bank? Doesn’t matter to me if she doesn’t wrestle like a heel, her character is still a jerk and I don’t want to see that from her anymore.
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A Little Doo Doo
Salacious Crumb
An unconventional man with unconventional methods.
Posts: 74,697
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on May 21, 2024 6:39:25 GMT -5
I like Lyra and I’m more than happy to support her push. I like Iyo too, but prefer both Asuka and Kairi to her and honestly have no further honest interest in her until they stop having every Asian woman on the main roster be a heel and turn her face. You know, what they seemed to be doing when she first won Money in the Bank? Doesn’t matter to me if she doesn’t wrestle like a heel, her character is still a jerk and I don’t want to see that from her anymore. Agreed that Iyo should be a face. |
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Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on May 21, 2024 6:44:35 GMT -5
I hope they just let IYO go work MariGold pretty much for the rest of the year.
Lyra can get her push and they can do Rhea and Liv etc and then IYO can return for the rumble and see what happens and whether she signs a new contract or not.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on May 21, 2024 6:55:24 GMT -5
Very fair question. Here’s my response. They are all more over than Lyra is. I thought that you were supposed to be REWARDED for getting over. That’s how it’s supposed to work right? Not be beaten because of it. It goes back to that age old question. Should you win an accolade to try and get you over. Or should you already be over and THEN win an accolade as a result of that? Also Tiffany in particular has not won A match on TV since MARCH 8th. So that is another problem arguably. She's been on Raw less than a month and they're using a tournament to get her over. QotR isnt a reward or accolade, is just a plot point, a character builder. It's not a MitB or Royal Rumble where the winner is someone that destined to headline major. Good lord, the last (and only so far) Queen was Zelina Vega. Also...how else are you supposed to get someone over outside of gaining big wins to put them at a certain level? Like, again, putting my bias aside for just a second, Lyra is a former NXT Women's Champion who beat Becky Lynch clean as a sheet on an NXT show not that long ago to win that championship. I'm sure that's been brought up on the product itself but that's just me using the narrative established. You have to establish someone and make them seem like someone who can be credible and can hang with members of your roster rather than just have them beat some lower tier people and hope that'll do anything. |
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mj0mn0m
Unicron
Don't you know I could do this dance all night? 👆
Posts: 3,180
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Post by mj0mn0m on May 21, 2024 7:03:48 GMT -5
So happy for Lyra. Pax has a star making feud against her in main roster next year. It's gonna be awesome!
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on May 21, 2024 7:09:19 GMT -5
She's been on Raw less than a month and they're using a tournament to get her over. QotR isnt a reward or accolade, is just a plot point, a character builder. It's not a MitB or Royal Rumble where the winner is someone that destined to headline major. Good lord, the last (and only so far) Queen was Zelina Vega. Also...how else are you supposed to get someone over outside of gaining big wins to put them at a certain level? Like, again, putting my bias aside for just a second, Lyra is a former NXT Women's Champion who beat Becky Lynch clean as a sheet on an NXT show not that long ago to win that championship. I'm sure that's been brought up on the product itself but that's just me using the narrative established. You have to establish someone and make them seem like someone who can be credible and can hang with members of your roster rather than just have them beat some lower tier people and hope that'll do anything. The thing with a lot of these people is that "a healthy women's division" doesn't mean a healthy women's DIVISION, it just means their favourite on top in perpetuity. If Iyo Sky was some unbeatable juggernaut that looked strong in every match and every promo, 90% of our discourse wouldn't exist. |
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Post by Vincent Whiney on May 21, 2024 7:12:32 GMT -5
I like Lyra and if Liv does take the belt I hope she takes it next. Assuming Rhea is still out a while a long Liv reign will be painful. But I also am rooting for Queen Nia at the end since I think these things are better on heels.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on May 21, 2024 7:13:25 GMT -5
The thing with a lot of these people is that "a healthy women's division" doesn't mean a healthy women's DIVISION, it just means their favourite on top in perpetuity. If Iyo Sky was some unbeatable juggernaut that looked strong in every match and every promo, 90% of our discourse wouldn't exist. Like, you and I have spoken about this before, one of the issues with the callup pipeline (and something they actually seem to be resolving now) is that there was talent lingering in NXT who had done everything and not making room for talent needing to debut and be showcased which was the entire point of the previous format of the show. They're beginning to solve that and instead of having credible people just bouncing around the top of the card, you're finally giving life to Raw and Smackdown with fresh talent and feuds and for that to be beneficial, you need to tell people that these people are actually worth watching instead of how most NXT callups get treated. I mean, I don't know what'll happen when NXT gets to CW and they actually have to treat it like a separate brand but the logic now makes sense. |
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