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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Dec 27, 2007 15:08:37 GMT -5
I don't know how it is in Norway but in the States all bars and pubs reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Its the bars call so deal with and learn from your mistake. Here in Greenville, they'll kick you out if you are wearing what they consider to be gang colors. Even plain white T's. It's all in their effort to keep order and try to make it so everyone can have a fun time without ruining something. Same thing seems to be with this story. For the TC, your buddy had a swastika on his shirt that pissed off some patrons, and since your buddy was the source of what was causing some civil unrest he had to go. I don't know how it is in Norway but in the States all bars and pubs reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Its the bars call so deal with and learn from your mistake. You forget the part where the police ban him from all bars in town... I can understand a private establishment booting someone out, but the police overreacted. I think the cops were probably acting in anger in dealing with who they that was a Nazi. They can't ban him from every bar, and even if they could how would they enforce it? Would every single cop and every single bar memorize what this guy looks like, especially months from now? It's kind of like when people sometimes tell people "I never want to talk to you again!" It's not usually a try infinite banishment, but just an over exaduration.
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Johnny
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Post by Johnny on Dec 27, 2007 15:13:59 GMT -5
I don't know how it is in Norway but in the States all bars and pubs reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Its the bars call so deal with and learn from your mistake. You forget the part where the police ban him from all bars in town... I can understand a private establishment booting someone out, but the police overreacted. They probably meant for the night. If they went into another bar the situation repeats itself.
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Dec 27, 2007 15:21:07 GMT -5
You forget the part where the police ban him from all bars in town... I can understand a private establishment booting someone out, but the police overreacted. I think the cops were probably acting in anger in dealing with who they that was a Nazi. They can't ban him from every bar, and even if they could how would they enforce it? Would every single cop and every single bar memorize what this guy looks like, especially months from now? It's kind of like when people sometimes tell people "I never want to talk to you again!" It's not usually a try infinite banishment, but just an over exaduration.[/quote] That doesn't excuse it though. Everyone in authority in this matter seemingly failed to act logically. Even the police admitted that there was no problem. Now of course a private establishment should be able to boot someone out for whatever reason, but they called the cops when there was no problem. By the reaction of the cops, it seems the guards lied.
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Dec 27, 2007 15:31:50 GMT -5
Wait what exactly was on the shirt besides a swastika that made it parodic?
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 27, 2007 15:34:22 GMT -5
You forget the part where the police ban him from all bars in town... I can understand a private establishment booting someone out, but the police overreacted. I think the cops were probably acting in anger in dealing with who they that was a Nazi. They can't ban him from every bar, and even if they could how would they enforce it? Would every single cop and every single bar memorize what this guy looks like, especially months from now? It's kind of like when people sometimes tell people "I never want to talk to you again!" It's not usually a try infinite banishment, but just an over exaduration. That doesn't excuse it though. Everyone in authority in this matter seemingly failed to act logically. Even the police admitted that there was no problem. Now of course a private establishment should be able to boot someone out for whatever reason, but they called the cops when there was no problem. By the reaction of the cops, it seems the guards lied. [/quote] Quick guess... but since the guys wouldn't leave, and they were trying to plead their cases, which in the guards minds, were most likely annoying and wasting their time, the guards had to find someway to get them out of there. So, they probably called the cops and lied about the situation so they could get back to work and not have some guys badgering them about getting kicked out?
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Dec 27, 2007 15:35:09 GMT -5
You forget the part where the police ban him from all bars in town... I can understand a private establishment booting someone out, but the police overreacted. I think the cops were probably acting in anger in dealing with who they that was a Nazi. They can't ban him from every bar, and even if they could how would they enforce it? Would every single cop and every single bar memorize what this guy looks like, especially months from now? It's kind of like when people sometimes tell people "I never want to talk to you again!" It's not usually a try infinite banishment, but just an over exaduration. I don't deny that it probably could have been handled better on all sides, but when you do things to get a reaction (such as wearing swastikas) don't whine and complain when you get one that you didn't expect and/or want.
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Franchise
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Post by Franchise on Dec 27, 2007 16:37:22 GMT -5
I'll echo the sentiments of some others: while I can see why one would get offended by your friend's t-shirt, they did cross the line a bit. I'm not saying you guys were completely in the clear, in my opinion, as that t-shirt can be rather offensive, But they did overreact.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 27, 2007 16:46:11 GMT -5
I'd be glad the bouncers/cops took you out of there before you and your friend got the holy hell whaled out of you, which is a reaction I've seen from bar/concert goers who didn't appreciate edgy fashions, specifically people wearing Nazi emblems.
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Post by Time Lord Soundwave on Dec 27, 2007 17:04:01 GMT -5
Yeah, those cops overreacted, but the swastika is a touchy subject.
I remember in High School, I had this Social Studies teacher who was a bit of a prick, always barking orders to students and study groups in a manner that befitted a drill sergeant. One time, after he belittled me and my study group and order us to get back to work, I jokingly Sig Heiled (the salute) him as he was walking away. Well sir, you'd think I just got done torching a picture of Jesus Christ in Vatican City the way he flipped the f*** out. He screamed bloody murder about how if I ever did that again, he'd see me expelled or sent to see a team of psychiatrists.
So bottom line, Nazi imagery, no matter if it's meant to be in jest, is NOT funny.
What exactly was on this shirt, anyway? How was it parody?
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 27, 2007 18:44:24 GMT -5
Im not even going to echo the sentiments of other people. Im going to tell you flat out that I find the use of the Swatika, even on a parody shirt, an offence. My family is Jewish, had i seen your friend or anyone else in a shirt like that, i'd threaten violence as well.
The bouncers were within their right, the police over stepped the mark a bit, but hey, maybe it'll learn your friend a lesson.
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R-Duke
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... yeah.
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Post by R-Duke on Dec 27, 2007 18:59:12 GMT -5
Real nazis don't wear those kinds of symbols. Anyone with any knowledge of that subculture would know that. And I need to add that my friend has worked for free at this place for years before, and most people know him. The guards were just being pricks, and he was infact told that he could stay if he just went and turned it inside out, and when he complies he gets thrown out.
Some of you people seem to ignore the fact that the only ones who broke any law in this case were the guards and the police. And when the police actually supplies the local paper with a story that's pure fiction from start to finish, you still think they were in the right?
Of course then there is the irony that the ones threatening violent behaviour got to stay, along with a number of people I know har full blown nazis.
No matter how you try to put this on my friend or me, you're wrong, and everyone we've talked to agrees. Thankfully, the local paper changed their story, and it's in the very least closer to the truth now.
I just kinda think it's worse acting like a damn fascist when you're a cop, than it is to wear som silly tshirt.
And I'd just like to add that my friend has gotten so much crap for how he's dressed for so long, and it just pisses me off. He's always the one being checked twice or more before being let in places, he's always being stopped for no reason just walking outside and it's bullcrap. He's a nice guy. Everyone knows that. But still these power hungry crapbags keep harassing him.
Say what you want. The t-shirt is actually not the big thing here, and if anyone acted liked smurfing nazis, it was the guards and even more so the cops.
Legion: I find people who turn to violence to be offensive. How about you... TALK to the guy, and get his god damn story first. Besides, they have NO RIGHT BY LAW to throw ANYONE out based on what they are wearing. However, those that threatened to beat him up, should have been thrown out as they've actually STATED that theyb MIGHT cause trouble and be VIOLENT.
We tried to be respectfull when he was approached, he tried to comply when told to turn it inside out... and all that crap happens.
Now if you would have threatend my friend based on a freaking t-shirt, it is you who has the problem. People turning to god damn violence just because they don't agree with or understand have no place being out with people.
This isn't a case of anyone being a nazi, this is a case of power abuse, police harassment and unfair treatment. When the thanks you get for keeping you cool and trying to comply is to be called idiot and nazi, and you wake up the next morning and read in the local paper that SOME DRUNK NAZI SCUM CAUSED TROUBLE last night... you know what I have every right to be pissed. My friend has every right to be pissed.
Thank you.
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Post by lildude8218 on Dec 27, 2007 19:06:16 GMT -5
My brother worked as a bouncer for years in New York city and he worked at places that allowed no obvious gang colors, no flags on any clothing that is worn, and several other things that I can't remember off the top of my head. And the bars he worked at had signs that say that they can refuse to let anyone in that they don't want to based on what they are wearing.
As for the situation, if the bar got enough complaints about the guy, then having him turn his shirt inside out wasn't going to solve anything. He was still the guy who wore the shirt and anyone who wanted to start something could just go find the guy with his shirt on inside out.
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R-Duke
AC Slater
... yeah.
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Post by R-Duke on Dec 27, 2007 19:13:27 GMT -5
THERE WAS ONE ACTUAL COMPLAINT!
And my friend CALLED THE POLICE, and they told him that HE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO BE THERE, they just wouldn't send anyone to help him out, because they were busy.
The guard called the police AFTER, and LIED on the phone. Five minutes, and a car arrived.
I don't really care what kind of prejudice fascist "rules" you have over there, I live in a country where this isn't supposed to happen-
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 27, 2007 19:14:07 GMT -5
I don't know you or your friend, but he's damn lucky he didn't get his ass kicked for wearing a swastika t-shirt.
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R-Duke
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... yeah.
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Post by R-Duke on Dec 27, 2007 19:21:27 GMT -5
It was a tshirt more or less comparing USA to nazi germany. And he wore a jacket to cover it at almost all times.
But I see this is senseless. People make up their minds just like that, not caring about the nuances and the details. Think what you want, I'm still going after this thing, and I will expose those motherf***ers for the fascist dicks they were. First step was getting the journalist to change the article. Where we go from here is uncertain, but if needed, this thing will go all the way to court, because I don't want to live in a country where authority figures can do what ever the hell they want and get away with it.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 27, 2007 19:21:34 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, your friend got off easy.
Wearing stuff like that for shock value is asking for trouble. To brush it aside as a simple parody is wrong, if only a few people know it and nobody else does.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 27, 2007 19:23:12 GMT -5
Saying that it compares the USA to Nazi Germany isn't going to get you much sympathy, here.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 27, 2007 19:25:02 GMT -5
Saying that it compares the USA to Nazi Germany isn't going to get you much sympathy, here. Hate to be a blind American... But that's true.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Dec 27, 2007 19:26:23 GMT -5
Has nobody learned a lesson from Bradshaw's mistake? Saying that it compares the USA to Nazi Germany isn't going to get you much sympathy, here. Hate to be a blind American... But that's true. That's not being a blind American, or an egotistical one, or anything else. It's purely standing up for yourself and your country. I don't want America compare to Nazi's either, because it's not the same. And if anyone wants to debate that, please take it up with my Grandmother how lived in Germany as a little girl.
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jzbadblood
Unicron
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Post by jzbadblood on Dec 27, 2007 19:27:22 GMT -5
It was a tshirt more or less comparing USA to nazi germany. And he wore a jacket to cover it at almost all times. But I see this is senseless. People make up their minds just like that, not caring about the nuances and the details. Think what you want, I'm still going after this thing, and I will expose those mothersmurfers for the fascist dicks they were. First step was getting the journalist to change the article. Where we go from here is uncertain, but if needed, this thing will go all the way to court, because I don't want to live in a country where authority figures can do what ever the hell they want and get away with it. You sound like a whiney douche. Cut your losses and move on. Just be glad you didn't get the living shit kicked out of you.
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