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Post by mohamo on Jan 18, 2007 1:01:06 GMT -5
You know the expression, for someone who's name is on the card will guarantee a big turnout. I remember the situation where WCW had some meeting and Bischoff said that the only guys who could draw money were Hogan, Piper and Savage. I'll agree with that, and also someone else at that meeting who was very offended by that, Ric Flair.
I'll try to list some more names that drew money on the mainstream:
-Goldberg (at least during 1998) -Steve Austin -The Rock -Mick Foley (hard call, but around 1998-9 he must have drawn, although his main event status has been all over the place) -Road Warriors (in the 80s with Crockett) -Sting (for most of the 90s) -Dusty Rhodes (for the 70s/80s) -Bruno S. -Andre -Shawn Michaels (to an extent, but he had so many heel runs and inactivities, but he must have been a draw around 1996-7) -Rey Misterio (in WWE) -D-X (I guess in some forms, the late 90s had lots of shirt pushers) -John Cena (well, someone's gotta be drawing money today) -Undertaker (not quite as much as you would think, I just think it's hard to say that an unrealistic character really puts butts in seats, but he has his pull) -Terry Funk (in the right areas, he was a draw in the 70s/80s)
And for some borderlines/tough calls/not quites: -Bret Hart (sure did in Canada, but the mid 90s were such a downtime) -Sid (same reasoning, but he thinks he did) -Ultimate Warrior (had the crowd on his side, but very briefly drew, maybe 1989-1991?) -Lex Luger (no merch sales, just never connected with the crowds that much, and turned sides too much) -Kevin Nash (the old Gerry Brisco joke "you're the lowest drawing champ in history") -Scott Hall (couldn't headline on his own) -Giant/Big Show (maybe in times, but I never saw any consistency with his drawing power in main events) -Barry Windham (was really territorial)
Yeah, it's a little odd listing, I don't have everyone and this is just my opinion. I hope you understand what I'm going for by "drawing money". And I'm not thinking about TNA/ROH or anything really territorial.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Jan 18, 2007 1:03:35 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that Scott Hall couldn't headline on his own. Just that they decided to not let him. But I do agree he's a "borderline" guy.
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Post by mohamo on Jan 18, 2007 1:09:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that Scott Hall couldn't headline on his own. Just that they decided to not let him. But I do agree he's a "borderline" guy. I know he did headline a few PPVs, but he was just so known for being part of a group in WCW, that him in top-tier singles matches was a little thrown together. But he could have done it. And his WWF run he didn't main event anything, had a few show-stealers (ladder) but he was basically between main event and midcard.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Jan 18, 2007 1:23:19 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, Ted Dibiase was quite the draw back in the 80s.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Jan 18, 2007 1:40:07 GMT -5
Shawn never drew much money as champion. He didn't draw as bad as Diesel, but all his runs on top were unsuccessful. I'm not trying to put down Shawn here, as he was a great worker. That doesn't always translate to drawing power, though. And to put things in perspective, the WWF had some stiff competition at the time. Furthermore, Shawn's babyface character was polarizing to many fans, as he wasn't the rebellious wrestler that they grew to like. These factors and more led to Shawn being a weak draw.
As for 1997, that's a deceptive year because it's when the WWF REALLY started to get edgy. But it was a terrible financial year. I used to think that 1992 was the WWF's worst year, but it wasn't. To put the situation in perspective, there were $6.5 million in losses off $63.9 million in revenues, and RAW only averaged a 2.7 against Nitro.
The WWF didn't get a truly great draw until Austin took off as a face. Of the heavily pushed champions before Austin, I believe either Bret or the Undertaker drew the most. I know Shawn and Diesel didn't draw and I don't think Yokozuna did either, so those two are the most logical choices.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Jan 18, 2007 1:42:09 GMT -5
As for Flair, he seemed to draw money everywhere EXCEPT the WWF. People tend to forget that 1992 was a bad business year. Of course, that had more to do with Hogan not being champion for the entire year. Fans weren't weened off the Hulkster yet.
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Post by mohamo on Jan 18, 2007 1:46:55 GMT -5
As for Flair, he seemed to draw money everywhere EXCEPT the WWF. People tend to forget that 1992 was a bad business year. Of course, that had more to do with Hogan not being champion for the entire year. Fans weren't weened off the Hulkster yet. Yeah, I agree with that, 1992 was such an odd year with most of the big names still around, but all kind of scattered and the UK thing might have skewed it some. And for Flair, I just think he wasn't as familiar to the WWF areas (New England/Midwest) at the time, and was a big heel. People knew who he was, but he had the NWA stereotype all over him, much like Windham and Rhodes.
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Post by Handsome Halfbreed on Jan 18, 2007 1:51:41 GMT -5
Don't forget Frank Gotch and George Hankenschmitt. I'm sure they were huge draws during the Jurassic Period in the Pangea territory.
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Post by skiller on Jan 18, 2007 1:53:53 GMT -5
I'd add Bob Backlund to that list. For his era, there's no dening that he was a draw.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Jan 18, 2007 9:22:27 GMT -5
I reckon The Undertaker was a huge draw, and still is today.
I still see no reason as to how Roddy Piper or HBK drew large sums of money. How much money did Kurt Angle draw i wonder?
As for Kevin Nash, nobody has ever been a bigger box office draw.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 18, 2007 9:30:50 GMT -5
Off topic, yes, but I always see this thing spring up and never was able to ask until now.
What does it mean to be a draw? How do you know if one person is drawing more than another?
Like say, when Hogan was in a match, how could you tell that people were paying to see him. Cheering is one thing, but paying is another.
Sorry, but this has confused me for a good while now.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 18, 2007 11:14:09 GMT -5
Basically it's whoever's name is on the top of the card (usually the champion), is the one that is considered the "draw" as they are your "main attraction." Like in the WWE for the RAW brand, the money they make is probably attributed mostly to DX, Rated RKO, and Cena because they are the top of the card.
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Post by mohamo on Jan 18, 2007 11:48:33 GMT -5
As for Kevin Nash, nobody has ever been a bigger box office draw. Well, I guess The Punisher wasn't too bad of a flick, but keep in mind of Savage's role in Spiderman, not a big role, but pivotal one in one of the biggest box office hits ever.
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Post by mohamo on Jan 18, 2007 12:37:49 GMT -5
what do you guys think about Triple H? Certainly a big name, but do people really want to pay to see him? I think that's an iffy one.
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Post by MOH [Still ''Le Sighing''] on Jan 18, 2007 12:40:06 GMT -5
I think at the moment, good draws are: Kurt Angle LAX Cena Rey (When he's back) Orton Christian Cage
Le Sigh
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Post by Hemmeorrhage on Jan 18, 2007 14:11:43 GMT -5
Its amazing how short term Bischoff's memory is. When Flair left WCW for the WWF in 91/92, chants of we want Flair dominated any live WCW broadcast. I know that was a horrible year for WCW. People like to debate the old "who was a bigger legend, Flair or Hogan" all the time. It is like comparing apples to oranges. Hogan worked for Vince and made money strictly for Vince. It was capitalism at its finest. Flair worked for the NWA in his heyday. The NWA was a group of regional federations that relied on a heel Ric Flair coming into town every so often so that their local babyface champion could wrestle for the "World"championship. Arenas would sell out in the hope that someone like David Von Erich(WCCW), Junkyard Dog(mid south), etc. would bring the big belt home. Of course 99.9 percent of the time, Flair would do the intentional DQ, time limit draw etc. to make the fans happy without leaving the belt behind. This was basically a form of socialism/communism. Flair made a bunch of regional bookers money as opposed to one person. Also, Vince was able to use all his resources into promoting Hogan. In the NWA, all those local promoters spent cash on their top babyface. They were not going to put a lot of cash/effort into promoting Flair who was just stopping in once in awhile. I can recall a couple Mid-South title defenses with Ric Flair Vs. Butch Reed. Ric Flair didn't even appear on midsouth TV for an angle. They might have had him do a taped solo interview. It was one of those real generic promos Ric Flair in a dark studio "Ric Flair is coming to style profile and party allnight in (insert name of town), and (insert name of opponent), to be the man you have to beat the man. Whether you like me or you' don't like, learn to love it because its the best thing going around today.
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
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Post by Garee on Jan 18, 2007 14:24:07 GMT -5
How about Bruno Sammartino, he was champion for like 8 years
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Post by royboy8 on Jan 18, 2007 15:04:57 GMT -5
I'm glad you added Rey jr. because even though most can't stand him anymore, since he has been in the E has been a good draw most of the time.
I think you've hit on most of the guys that should be on the list although I think the only place Bret has ever drawn a penny is in Canada. In that style, maybe add Davey Boy Smith? He pretty much sold Wembley on his own back during summerslam that he main evented. Also, other ppvs such as one night stand, he is owed a great deal of credit for making them as successful as they were.
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Post by sexualvanilla on Jan 18, 2007 15:49:41 GMT -5
It's weird since the importance of drawing isn't really that big a deal to most fans, but the wrestlers consider it to be the most important. It really shouldn't matter to us and there's really no way we can gauge how well a guy is drawing, but to the wrestlers, since its a business, it's the most important. Hence why Hogan is so revered by them and Flair is to us, even though Flair's probably drawn just as much cummatively over the many decades in small doses as Hogan has during his hot streaks
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
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Post by JMA on Jan 18, 2007 18:28:25 GMT -5
I think you've hit on most of the guys that should be on the list although I think the only place Bret has ever drawn a penny is in Canada. That's not true at all. Meltzer himself confirmed that Bret drew well as champion. He didn't do Austin or Hogan numbers (far from it), but I believe he drew the most out of the champions after Hogan left, before Austin took off. I can't imagine Yokozuna drawing much (I could be wrong, though), Backlund had too short of a reign to draw anything, Diesel was the worst draw, and Shawn was a weak draw. I'm not sure how much Sid and Taker drew, yet Wrestlemania XIII where they faced each other was a huge flop, business-wise (ironically, it would be the show where the WWF would do the double-turn between Hart and Austin and thus plant the seeds for their victory over WCW). Despite this, I've always read that Taker drew well, and I have no reason to doubt those claims. As for Triple H, he seemed to draw well before his injury. He carried the WWF on his back and didn't crack under the pressure. (And this is coming from someone that doesn't like the Clique.) However, when he came back his drawing was questionable at best. By the end of 2002, ratings for RAW averaged in the high 3.0's and attendance declined to close to fifty percent earlier in the year. As for 2003, WrestleMania flopped on PPV, with only 560,000 buys, the lowest since WrestleMania 13. That being said, it's safe to say that Triple H drew more than any other member of the Clique. And you also can't put the blame squarely on him. The huge stars were dropping like flies and the angles were beyond terrible. I'm not making excuses for Hunter (remember, I don't like him), I'm just trying to put things into their proper perspective. I kind of went off on a tangent there. Sorry about that. Incidentally, Meltzer posted a list of the top drawing stars some time ago. If people are interested in this then I recommend that they look for this list. I believe someone may have posted it on these forums a while back.
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