Good stiff vs Bad stiff

[kinkymagic]

I was just wondering what people's opinions were to the current wrestling mindset that there is 'good stiff' (Samoa Joe etc...) and 'bad stiff' (Hardcore Holly etc...). I may be old fashioned, but isn't all stiffness bad? Surely the idea is to look stiff while not being stiff. Anyway, what do you think?

[KLRA]

Joe and his "stiffness" is highly overrated. He only become truely "stiff" when it helps for the match, otherwise you could probably fall asleep wrestling him. Rhino is the same exact way.

[dwdufour]

I have this conversation all the time. As a worker, I pride myself on looking stiff while being very light. I want the guy I'm in there with to be able to function the next day without lingering effects of a stupid wrestling match. It doesn't mean you can't hit a guy hard. You just have to do it in safe places. The jaw and face are not safe. This is part of the reason why I hate the forearm shots that seem to be all the rage these days. I assume that most of the guys who do these forearms just can't throw a believable punch ala Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, et al.

Long story short: Stiff = Bad. No bad wrestler ever got better by being stiff.

[amplifierWORSHIP!]

i liked how in Mick Foley's books (it was 1 of the 2) he mentioned that what looks the most real, is the real thing. stiffness with the intent of injuring others is wrong (unless they asked you to do so) but can certainly enhance a match when it's called for. hence my love for Vader, Finlay, Regal, NOAH and the strong-style as a whole, etc.

[HMARK Center]

Yeah, like TLR said, Samoa Joe is renown for being surprisingly safe to work with, just capable of hitting very hard when need be. AJ Styles, who looks like he's getting crippled whenever he faces Joe, swears it.

That's the idea of being "good stiff". It sound and looks effective while keeping your opponent safe, and that's never a bad thing.

"Bad stiff", to me, is when you do something uncalled for, without your opponent being told beforehand. That's just poor professionalism.

[Kevin Hamilton]

This title made me laugh hilariously. I'm not smart.

[sexualvanilla]

There's 2 kinds of bad stiffness. One is when it's done to harm the opponent legitamitely, and the other is being stiff for no other purpose than to "save" a bad match. While Joe/Kobashi was justified in its use of stiff shots, a guy like Azriel kicking a wrestler in the back repeatedly just to get a cheap pop is just as bad to me. Gotta pick your spots, not just do it because everyone else does

[BHB]

Joe = Good stiff.

Hardcore Holly = delusional, bullying prick.

[Joekishi]

Hardcore Holly stiffness is good stiffness too it makes things awesome.

his matches with Benoit, Chyna, and Jericho were awesome for how stiff he worked.

I want to see a Finlay/Holly Stiff Off at the royal Rumble with CM Punk being the rookie victim

[Andrew is Good]

Samoa Joe is just a really really really good worker. He probably isn't even all that stiff.

Hardcore Holly a lot of the times is stiff to prove a point or teach a disrespectful kid a lesson. I've heard from wrestlers themselves from shoots, and all they do is defend Hardcore Holly, and Brother Runt even said he's good for wrestling.

It's weird, like, the Japanese Strong Style is really praised, and I was watching KENTA on Honor Reclaims Boston, and what he does when he's really stiff isn't really that hard. Think about it. What KENTA does when he stiffs people, everyone can do that. I can legitimately kick someone in the face all I want, but that's not the art of pro wrestling. It's making moves look real.

[Vice Squad: Strong Style]

it really depends on what the workers are willing to subject themselves to, and to which context.

[Nuke is Good]

devondragon said:

Renee Dupree = bad stiff

Wow.... on that.

[angryfan]

I look at it this way. Some guys, if they know eachother very well, can turn it up and work a bit more snug, because they trust eachother. That's good stiff, in my book.

Benoit and Regal have been working snug for years, but I'd say if you asked them, they trust the other guy when they're working together. Hell, I remember seeing Vampiro and Hugh Morrus at Pillman after they stiffed the hell out of eachother, laughing and joking backstage, but the first question out of each guy's mouth was "you ok?". When they realized they were fine, then the joking commenced.

To me, bad stiff is doing so just to prove you can, and especially when the other guy either doesn't know you well, or you're just doing it to be an ass. Bob Holly beating the living hell out of Cappotelli on multiple occasions would be my example.

[Scott]

Regal on Goldberg was ugly.

[Tea & Crumpets]

^ Actually that got Goldberg over more, as he used real wrestling moves instead of the same 3 strikes. Also Regal wasn't stiff- legitimate shots, he shoot wrestled- real wrestling. And Goldberg apparently was fine with that and respected Regal more afterwards for it.