Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,361
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 25, 2007 3:42:45 GMT -5
WrestleMania 9. I'm pretty sure it gets shit on so much around here because RD inducted it.
The outdoor setting was something different, the Roman theme was cheesey, but had almost nothing to do with the show itself, all of the matches were more than passable, cept Taker/Giant....the ending may have left a bad taste in people's mouths (mine too as I was as big a Hart fan as could be), but it was still a very solid WrestleMania.
Again, I am sure it gets such a bad rap because RD inducted it, if he hadn't, I don't think it would have such a bad rap.
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Post by Voldemar H. "Brak" Guerta on Jan 25, 2007 4:07:34 GMT -5
The McMahon in Every Corner thing ruined the match IMO. It didn't ruin it for me but, added nothing. I mean Trips with Steph vs. Rock with Vince would have been better but, I still enjoyed the match. Well, the 4-way was really unnecessary as it did turn into HHH Vs. Rock for like the last 15 minutes or so of the match.
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Scott
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,577
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Post by Scott on Jan 25, 2007 4:27:30 GMT -5
Wrestlemania 2000 did not have a single one-on-one match which killed the event for me. I've never heard anything bad about Wrestlemania IV and think of the list, this was the best. The others may have had a stellar match here and there, but as an event, IV had a great feel.
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Post by KingPopper on Jan 25, 2007 7:37:24 GMT -5
19, it should be everyones favorite wrestlemania.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 25, 2007 8:09:36 GMT -5
Personally, V. I dont hear a lot of people bash it, but a lot of people dont even mention it, either. A lot of my friends were bored by it, but I was constantly entertained. I may be a bit bias because it was the first WM I ever saw, but...just off the top of my head we had... 1. Decent opening contest between Haku and Hercules 2. SLICK leading the Twin Towers in against the Rockers 3. A young Mr. Perfect vs a young Owen Hart as the Blue Blazer, something I'd kill to see a rematch of these days. 4. Andre vs Jake Roberts.....not a great match by any means, but, two of the biggest names of the 80's in the same ring is watchable for that if nothing else. 5. Hogan/Savage is one of the great overlooked main events, IMO. When people think Hogan WrestleMania matches, you always hear about Andre, Warrior, or Rock. Savage.....Steamboat, Warrior, or Flair. I always enjoyed Hogan/Savage just as much, if not more than any of those listed
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 9:04:49 GMT -5
Godz, I agree w/ you on WM V, although I think there are quite a few other matches that are underrated w/ Rude taking the title away from the Warrior being one of them. Also, the commentary during that whole event was pule gold, IMO. I love to watch this WM over and over just for the commentary, especially during the Hogan vs Savage match:
Ventura: "Macho Man did it his way. Won it in the biggest tournament of all time, and then you have Hogan, laying in the weeds, thinking up this devious plot: distract Macho, steal his woman, take his mind off what he is, the WWF Champion."
Monsoon: "Do you actually believe that doctored footage shown by the Macho Man?"
Ventura: "Hey, I'm no Johnny-come-lately Gorilla. I've seen this thing from the start, and Hogan and his 'puke-a-maniacs' can stick it".
Monsoon: "What right do you have to call them that?"
Ventura: "Because that's what they are!"
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 25, 2007 9:06:39 GMT -5
Yep. Ventura/Gorilla is my second favorite team of all time, just barely short of Brain/Gorilla
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Post by skskillz on Jan 25, 2007 9:16:12 GMT -5
WrestleMania IV. To this day, I don't understand what was so bad about it. Sure, I'm a Savage mark, and still love the ending with Savage winning the title and Liz in tears (of joy), but that's not the only reason I enjoyed the show. Maybe it was one of those "you had to be there" shows that don't age well with time, and I can understand that. However, the entire event was historic for a number of reasons.
1. Savage winning his first world title. This was big. Hogan had held the title non-stop since 1984, and for someone else to take the ball while Hogan went on a brief hiatus was a huge deal back then. Like I said, the ending with Savage celebrating his win and Liz in tears still makes me mark out to this day. Not to mention the match with Dibiase, while a bit too short, was very good and a good set-up for the Summerslam main event a few months later.
2. Demolition won their first tag team titles that they'd end up holding for over a year. They actually got cheered more than Strike Force in this match.
3. Dibiase got put over huge.
4. Not necessarily historic, but the show featured solid wrestling matches. Maybe my tastes differ from people here, but I thought Steamboat/Valentine, Savage/Valentine, and even Dibiase/Duggan were solid matches. Hogan/Andre was a spectacle as it always is. Demolition/Strike Force and Bulldogs-Koko/Islanders-Heenan were both very solid. Honky/Beefcake had decent heat to it. The 20-man battle royal was fun.
Overall, I thought it was a good show. A show that I still watch today on tape. Very enjoyable.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 25, 2007 9:26:00 GMT -5
I dont nessacarily dislike IV, it just drags in spots, taking both Andre and Hogan both out early hurt it for me, you had some real questionable entries that totally bored me (Butch Reed? Seriously? Was this guy EVER over?) and, although I havent seen this card in YEARS, I remember Jake Roberts' match with....I wanna say Rude....a HORRID, dragging, slow affair.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 9:38:52 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall the IWC ever really saying WM IV was bad or even underrated. There's been several thread polls conducted on the best & worst WM's of all time and I don't remember seeing WM IV on either list - I think it's a solid WM that many people put in the middle of the pack when ranking WM's.
Usually WMX-7, XIX, XIV, X-8, III, VI & X are right up there as far as the best and WM IX, XV, XI, & even II are the bottom feeders. WM IV fits right in the middle somewhere.
The thing w/ the tournament and re-watching it is there's quite a few matches that I (& probably most people) just FF thru to get to the good ones. I mean Hacksaw vs Dibiase, Savage vs Natural Butch Reed, Dibiase vs Don Morroco, and heck, even the Brutus vs Honky match was just "blah" IMO.
Another thing that might be holding WM IV back is the crowd participation. Sometimes, the audience can make or break a PPV event w/ its participation, and the WM IV & V crowds at Atlantic City, filled w/ a great deal of non-chalant pro-wrestling gamblers, just didn't make it "feel" like a WM. I mean, the only real "buzz" I remember around any matches from either WM held there were the WM IV Savage vs Dibiase final (but only after Liz got Hogan involved), the inside-outside clothesline Akeem gave HBK during WM V, and then the Savage vs Hogan main event.
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Post by skskillz on Jan 25, 2007 9:46:23 GMT -5
WrestleMania IV is some times referred to as "WrestleMania Bore" by some internet reviews I've read. The short matches and lack of a breakout undercard match add to the apathy for some people.
I agree about the crowd at WrestleMania IV. They just didn't get into anything other than Hogan's involvement and the main event. I've always said having one WrestleMania in Atlantic City was bad enough, but TWO IN A ROW was a major mistake. Forget the crowd, the actual arena looked second rate, much like WrestleMania VII (which at least was a last second move). Although the crowd at WrestleMania V was a lot hotter, IMO. The reason for that was probably a better undercard (Warrior/Rude in particular).
My biggest regret with WM IV is that the WWF had a PERFECT opportunity to have a Savage/Steamboat rematch with Savage getting his win back and possibly adding a 10 minute undercard bout that people would remember. Instead, Valentine went over Steamboat.
Again, it's probably a result of the '80's style not translating to the taste of the '90's audience (which is understandable) and a lack of a true memorable match. A lot of people crap on this show.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 25, 2007 9:47:55 GMT -5
I dont nessacarily dislike IV, it just drags in spots, taking both Andre and Hogan both out early hurt it for me, you had some real questionable entries that totally bored me (Butch Reed? Seriously? Was this guy EVER over?) and, although I havent seen this card in YEARS, I remember Jake Roberts' match with....I wanna say Rude....a HORRID, dragging, slow affair. I understand about WM4, some of the tourney matches were kinda boring at least now, back then I marked for everything and to answer your question yes Reed was over, especially during his Mid-South run for Bill Watts.
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Jan 25, 2007 9:51:15 GMT -5
19...so underated that it didnt make this list
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 9:55:10 GMT -5
Also, wans't IV the first WM, and the only WM for a while, to be 4 hours in length? I remember the VHS box including two cassettes.
Looking back at the late 80's and early 90's, the WWF's target audience was still the Hulkamaniac kids, and most kids (and even some teens & adults) don't sit thru 4 hours of pro-wresting.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 25, 2007 9:56:58 GMT -5
Also, wans't IV the first WM, and the only WM for a while, to be 4 hours in length? I remember the VHS box including two cassettes. Looking back at the late 80's and early 90's, the WWF's target audience was still the Hulkamaniac kids, and most kids (and even some teens & adults) don't sit thru 4 hours of pro-wresting. True, but as I recall on the PPV version there was a 15 or 20 minute intermission in the middle of the show, they did that a lot with their PPV's back in the day.
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Post by skskillz on Jan 25, 2007 10:03:20 GMT -5
Also, wans't IV the first WM, and the only WM for a while, to be 4 hours in length? I remember the VHS box including two cassettes. Looking back at the late 80's and early 90's, the WWF's target audience was still the Hulkamaniac kids, and most kids (and even some teens & adults) don't sit thru 4 hours of pro-wresting. Yeah, I have the box set with both tapes in it (and the giant fold out of Hogan's picture, which is actually pretty cool). I don't know if 4 hours was the problem. There was just a lot of filler due to the tournament, and not a lot of storylines involved other than a few of the mid-card matches and Hogan/Andre. Look at the year before at WrestleMania III. The crowd was a lot hotter (and better), but almost every match had a backstory to it. An event centered around a tournament makes storylines hard to create.
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Post by mboma10 on Jan 25, 2007 10:35:36 GMT -5
I know Wrestlemania 13 was bad as a whole....but Stone Cold vs Bret Hart should go down as one of the 5 best matches in professional wrestling history. If you ever wanna know why Bret is the greatest of all time, simply watch that match. And Shamrock as the Special Guest referee. Genius.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 10:45:05 GMT -5
Not taking anything away from match itself or the effort that both Stone Cold & Bret put in, but put that WM 13 classic match in front of an LA crowd or even an Atlantic City crowd and it's not as "classic". The crowd in Chi-town was just awesome and it made it feel that much more exciting and memorable; from the moment Stone Cold cracked the chair across Bret's back, the crowd was one of the hottest WM crowds ever for any match.
To me, the WM crowds in LA just seem dull w/ the exception of WM VII.
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Post by Austin's Middle Finger on Jan 25, 2007 10:55:26 GMT -5
although I havent seen this card in YEARS, I remember Jake Roberts' match with....I wanna say Rude....a HORRID, dragging, slow affair. Yep. Extremely dull match. Such a shame, because I think the crowd wanted to like it, but neither man gave them an opportunity to get into it. And this is coming from someone who likes both men a great deal. As for the question, I've always thought II was very underrated. It would have been considerably better if they had kept it in one city and had Gorilla and Ventura commentating the whole thing together, but's there's some good stuff on there. And the Hogan/Bundy cage match is a fine main event.
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Jeff
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,074
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Post by Jeff on Jan 25, 2007 11:00:34 GMT -5
XV
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