miked
Mike the Goon
Posts: 43
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Post by miked on Jan 17, 2007 13:50:34 GMT -5
How many times do superstars have to lose before they're no longer unbeaten. Umaga lost at Survivor Series, but he was still unbeaten until NYR; Undertaker lost several times to the Ultimate Warrior in 1991, but he was still unbeaten come Survivor Series; Chris Masters has had his Master Lock broken, but he's still unbeaten in Master Lock challenges; Samoa Joe lost the X-Division title, but he was still unbeaten.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Jan 17, 2007 13:52:05 GMT -5
Generally, I only accept a winning streak as ended when the person in question loses in a one-on-one match.
Multiple man matches don't really count, because you can have four guys or more kicking your ass before you get pinned.
Also, in matches with more than two people where it's One Fall To A Finish, you don't even need to get pinned to lose, like in the matches with AJ/Daniels/Joe. If you're not pinned, you technically lost, but you didn't lose, you know?
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EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
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Post by EJS on Jan 17, 2007 13:58:37 GMT -5
You're "unbeaten" until you're pinned/made to submit in a one on one contest.
Losing a match via DQ/countout doesn't end it. (See: Umaga)
Losing a three way or more way match without being the "loser" doesn't end it. (see: Samoa Joe)
Losing a tag match doesn't end it.
Losing a battle royal style match doesn't end it.
Losing an elimination match doesn't end it. (So far this rule only applies to WWE, see: CM Punk, Bobby Lashley)
Losing a specialty match that doesn't involve normal means of winning MAY end it. (WWE hasn't clarified if they consider Khali "undefeated", they probably don't, even though he is still "unpinned".)
Untelevised losses are generally not counted. (see: CM Punk, Umaga, Great Khali)
Matches before your official TV debut in your current gimmick/name are void. (See: Umaga/Jamal)
The Masterlock Challenge hasn't been won, because it has DQ rules just like any other contest, so interference from the likes of JBL or Super Crazy is illegal. Also if Masters releases the hold on his own that doesn't mean someone "broke" it. That's common sense.
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Post by Error on Jan 17, 2007 13:59:54 GMT -5
Umaga had never been pinned or made to submit until NYR. That was the selling point. Shawn Michaels beat him around Summer Slam by DQ so unbeaten was gone long ago.
Masters is a common heel tactic (and even then only the serviceman broke the Masterlock).
Samoa Joe wasn't pinned or forced to submit until Angle made him tap. He lost the X Belt in a Triple Threat after with Senshi and Sonjay Dutt after Scott Steiner took Joe out. Joe had also gotten himself DQ'ed several time but, again, the selling point was he had not been pinned or made to submit.
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Byakugan
Unicron
To my peeps and you fools, say it loud and say it proud, Christian rules!
Posts: 2,525
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Post by Byakugan on Jan 17, 2007 13:59:59 GMT -5
Only when your pinned or submit
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Post by wrath on Jan 17, 2007 14:00:09 GMT -5
Ya know..during Sean 'O Haire's run with Piper..he never lost a singles match. Buuuut he's making up for that nowadays.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Jan 17, 2007 14:00:58 GMT -5
Losing an elimination match doesn't end it. *So far this rule only applies to WWE, see: CM Punk* They did the same with Blaster Lashley at Survivor Series 2005. He was the first guy eliminated, but they still had him as 'undefeated'. |
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Post by Doctor Tull-eus S. Venture on Jan 17, 2007 14:11:22 GMT -5
Ya know..during Sean 'O Haire's run with Piper..he never lost a singles match. Buuuut he's making up for that nowadays. Dang! You tricked me into thinking that you weren't telling me anything I didn't already know. |
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Jan 17, 2007 14:12:28 GMT -5
Ya know..during Sean 'O Haire's run with Piper..he never lost a singles match. Buuuut he's making up for that nowadays. By getting knocked out by 145 pound Japanese guys.  |
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Post by The Boss on Jan 17, 2007 14:17:31 GMT -5
Ya know..during Sean 'O Haire's run with Piper..he never lost a singles match. Buuuut he's making up for that nowadays. Speaking of Piper he defeated Bill GoldTURD (wrestling under the name Bill Gold) via sleeper in his first match just weeks before his famous match with Hugh Morris, and yet they went on to call Bill GoldTURD undefeated for over a year. Also they called the Undertaker undefeated at Tuesday in Texas even though HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN had already pinned him in previous title defences. |
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EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
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Post by EJS on Jan 17, 2007 14:20:45 GMT -5
Ya know..during Sean 'O Haire's run with Piper..he never lost a singles match. Buuuut he's making up for that nowadays. Speaking of Piper he defeated Bill GoldTURD (wrestling under the name Bill Gold) via sleeper in his first match just weeks before his famous match with Hugh Morris, and yet they went on to call Bill GoldTURD undefeated for over a year. I guess that applies to the "elimination match" rule I mentioned, as wasn't that Piper vs jobbers in a gauntlet match? Also, matches before your official debut, or under a different gimmick name are generally not counted. |
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Post by The Boss on Jan 17, 2007 14:32:49 GMT -5
I guess that applies to the "elimination match" rule I mentioned, as wasn't that Piper vs jobbers in a gauntlet match? Also, matches before your official debut, or under a different gimmick name are generally not counted. But it was on TV so it couldn't not be considered his official debut. And as far as the name goes, wrestlers change names all the time. But the point is that the undefeated angle is almost always untrue or at least exaggerated. |
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EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
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Post by EJS on Jan 17, 2007 14:39:32 GMT -5
Wrestlers can appear as jobbers on tv often before their official debut. Losses while a jobber have never counted. CM Punk lost matches on WWE tv before he debuted.
And like i said, it does fall under the elimination match rule, also... I seem to recall that wasn't even an official match. Piper just sorta made it up himself.
The name change doesn't apply here, obviously, since Goldberg wasn't even named in this "match" I don't think. But when a wrestler changes their identity, it is generally a clean slate wins/loss-wise (like Fake Diesel to Kane or Jamal to Umaga).
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