A question for fans of WWF/WCW 1995-

[Hemmeorrhage]

I posted this response in the Wrestlecrap section of the forum. The subject of the thread was Randy Savage revitalizing Hogan with his elbow drop in a tag match with the dungeon of doom in 1995 WCW. This topic has been debated before, but I would like some fresh input.

I remember this WCW circus like it was yesterday. I had access to both WCW and WWF as a kid. I would watch both, but I really loved WCW. For the most part, WCW had much better athletes and in ring performers. The WWF was always a circus. All their wrestlers had gimmicks and when Vince would take a star from a regional promotion and repackage them while acting like he had never seen them before it would drive me nuts. Too me, the WWF was stupid all year around, while WCW would manage to equal the level of WWF stupidity in one angle(Black Scorpion, White Castle of Fear, The Electric Chair match etc.) I always knew WCW was second fiddle and I figured that they were losing money. So, when Hogan came to WCW I was prepared for a blessing or a curse. It turned out to be a curse. Hogan killed WCW from 1994-1995. The NWO came in and revitalized WCW in 1996-1998. Once the NWO ran its course, Hogan managed to play a big hand in killing WCW from 1999-2000.

The million dollar question is: Would the NWO have been successful without Hogan?
Before you answer, we have to assume that Hogan is absent for a little while shooting movies or something during the NWO angle. If Hogan feuded with the NWO then I am absolutely positive the angle would have failed unless Hogan jobbed to the NWO consistently. The fans were sick of the Hogan show at that point. So for arguments sake lets assume Hogan wasn't there.

[Tiger Millionaire]

Short answer, no, the angle does not succeed, or at least to the extent that it did without Hogan. There had been invasion angles in wrestling before but having Hogan turn when he was still the most recognizable face in the wrestling world gave the angle something special. I know from the inflection of your statement that your looking for another reason to bash Hogan, but like him or not, his turning was such a big deal, and gave so much energy to that angle, that it would'nt have succeeded without him.

[RedSmile]

Also, a main reason why subsequent versions of the NWO failed is because the NWO was Hall, Nash, and Hogan, period. You cant have it without these three. Hogan turning heel made the NWO more than just a faction.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

No, it wouldn't have. I'm a big Hogan basher, but without him, the NWO was just another tag team. He put 'em over the top with his heel turn.

[Hemmeorrhage]

thebigslow said:

Short answer, no, the angle does not succeed, or at least to the extent that it did without Hogan. There had been invasion angles in wrestling before but having Hogan turn when he was still the most recognizable face in the wrestling world gave the angle something special. I know from the inflection of your statement that your looking for another reason to bash Hogan, but like him or not, his turning was such a big deal, and gave so much energy to that angle, that it would'nt have succeeded without him.

I don't doubt the effect that Hogan had on wrestling. Hogan brought many things to the table we call wrestling. Debating Hogan is like debating art or music. Hogan was like the Britney Spears or Christina Aguileraa of the world. You can't question his impact on the financial side. He made tons of money for both Mcmahon and Turner. However, many fans will agree that Hogan did not have an artistic impact on the industry. Does this sound familiar. Hogan is like the studio produced manufactured pop star. He was loved by children, but like The Backstreet Boys, his act had a shelf life. Wrestlers like Benoit, Malenko, and Jericho represent the art side of the equation. They are great to look at, but don't bring in the bucks. The problem was that WCW had to pay huge bucks for that expired shelf life. If Hogan would have treated the WCW like the WWF post 2001, I wouldn't have such a beef with him. Remember when he was putting over Angle and Lesnar cleanly as a face? If he had been willing to do that in WCW, there might be a WCW today. My personal opinion is that the angle would not have been as succesful without Hogan. People who may have watched Hogan as a kid tuned in to see the new evil Hogan. The shelf life on his act that had expired, just got a new date stamped on it. Of course, he was completely against the idea and almost didn't go through with the turn.

[DASH 243✅]

I think it could have made it but they would have needed to steal one more star from wwf at the time michals hart even taker i think could have fit the part as well if not better then hogan
but thats just my 2 cents

[Tiger Millionaire]

hemmeorrhage said:

thebigslow said:

Short answer, no, the angle does not succeed, or at least to the extent that it did without Hogan. There had been invasion angles in wrestling before but having Hogan turn when he was still the most recognizable face in the wrestling world gave the angle something special. I know from the inflection of your statement that your looking for another reason to bash Hogan, but like him or not, his turning was such a big deal, and gave so much energy to that angle, that it would'nt have succeeded without him.

I don't doubt the effect that Hogan had on wrestling. Hogan brought many things to the table we call wrestling. Debating Hogan is like debating art or music. Hogan was like the Britney Spears or Christina Aguileraa of the world. You can't question his impact on the financial side. He made tons of money for both Mcmahon and Turner. However, many fans will agree that Hogan did not have an artistic impact on the industry. Does this sound familiar. Hogan is like the studio produced manufactured pop star. He was loved by children, but like The Backstreet Boys, his act had a shelf life. Wrestlers like Benoit, Malenko, and Jericho represent the art side of the equation. They are great to look at, but don't bring in the bucks. The problem was that WCW had to pay huge bucks for that expired shelf life. If Hogan would have treated the WCW like the WWF post 2001, I wouldn't have such a beef with him. Remember when he was putting over Angle and Lesnar cleanly as a face? If he had been willing to do that in WCW, there might be a WCW today. My personal opinion is that the angle would not have been as succesful without Hogan. People who may have watched Hogan as a kid tuned in to see the new evil Hogan. The shelf life on his act that had expired, just got a new date stamped on it. Of course, he was completely against the idea and almost didn't go through with the turn.

If you want to compare Hogan to a musical act, compare him to Jimmy Buffett, a guy whose had the same act for years, sells out every time he goes on tour, and although not always artistically loved, the fans love him. To compare him with a Spears is to take away the fact that he helped bring in a new era of wrestling, a era that made a lot of guys alot of money, and gave alot of guys the forum to show and work on their craft. Hogan was always able to keep the crowds in the matches, and if that isn't art, then we have a much different opinion of what art is.

[ronsimmons]

Only other way it could have worked would have been with Shawn Michaels in Hogan's place.

[Tiger Millionaire]

ronsimmons said:

Only other way it could have worked would have been with Shawn Michaels in Hogan's place.

Yeah, but Shawn was never as political as Hogan, so you know he would've jobbed when he had too

[oltrelamorte]

No. Hogan's heel turn & joining the NWO is what fueled them to begin with. That was the heat machine.

[Hemmeorrhage]

thebigslow said:

hemmeorrhage said:

I don't doubt the effect that Hogan had on wrestling. Hogan brought many things to the table we call wrestling. Debating Hogan is like debating art or music. Hogan was like the Britney Spears or Christina Aguileraa of the world. You can't question his impact on the financial side. He made tons of money for both Mcmahon and Turner. However, many fans will agree that Hogan did not have an artistic impact on the industry. Does this sound familiar. Hogan is like the studio produced manufactured pop star. He was loved by children, but like The Backstreet Boys, his act had a shelf life. Wrestlers like Benoit, Malenko, and Jericho represent the art side of the equation. They are great to look at, but don't bring in the bucks. The problem was that WCW had to pay huge bucks for that expired shelf life. If Hogan would have treated the WCW like the WWF post 2001, I wouldn't have such a beef with him. Remember when he was putting over Angle and Lesnar cleanly as a face? If he had been willing to do that in WCW, there might be a WCW today. My personal opinion is that the angle would not have been as succesful without Hogan. People who may have watched Hogan as a kid tuned in to see the new evil Hogan. The shelf life on his act that had expired, just got a new date stamped on it. Of course, he was completely against the idea and almost didn't go through with the turn.

If you want to compare Hogan to a musical act, compare him to Jimmy Buffett, a guy whose had the same act for years, sells out every time he goes on tour, and although not always artistically loved, the fans love him. To compare him with a Spears is to take away the fact that he helped bring in a new era of wrestling, a era that made a lot of guys alot of money, and gave alot of guys the forum to show and work on their craft. Hogan was always able to keep the crowds in the matches, and if that isn't art, then we have a much different opinion of what art is.

I wrote this awhile ago and now I posted it on this board just to show you I am not a blind Hogan hater.
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