My TNA rant in responce to Youtube TNA uber-marks

[voiceboxisback]

The "there will be a lot more wrestling once it gets two hours" is beating around the bush. As of right now, TNA is an absolute clusterf***, with a few bright spots. That 2 hours is more of an excuse, than a real reason, because yes it is obvious that they'd have more wrestling at 2 hours. Any company with a 2 hour slot would, but that doesn't excuse what they are doing now with their 1 hour. Being a wrestling show got TNA an audience, and made TNA an alternative to WWE. Now they are really no longer an alternative, because they do the same crappy entertainment stuff that WWE has done before, only worse. ECW has the same amount of time as TNA each week, and able to put on good matches for over 30 minutes each show, while still advancing storylines.

Impact used to have over 30 minutes of wrestling on it, with strong character development. With Russo in charge of the writing it isn't an amazing show/product, and that has shown with the even further decline of TNA's financial state. TNA has gone to crap, and is really just like a WWE Lite product. Face it, TNA now even has their own fat oily guy who is taking up valuable TV time, and it is no longer a parody.

WWE is making money, TNA isn't. TNA is in SERIOUS financial problems, WWE isn't. WWE is getting back to being decent, while over the course of 4 months TNA has gone from a good WRESTLING promotion to Vince Russo variety hour with a whopping average of 10 minutes of matchtime per Impact, and sometimes even less than 10 minutes for each Impact, with highly ineffective character development taking up the rest of the time.

WWE over the past 3 months actually has had an average of 1/2-3/4 of their timeslots showing wrestling matches, with one or two of those matches on each show being decent-good TV matches. Smackdown over the past 5-6 months has gone from arguably the worst WWE show, to the best WWE program with GOOD wrestling matches with psychology. Of course there are crappy gimmicks like Boogeyman, and Batista is champ, still you are guaranteed a good show when you watch Smackdown. 6 months ago the same could be said for TNA Impact, however not anymore.

Getting back to the one hour deal, despite being in different situations, "ECW" which is an hour as well, actually has an average of 30 minutes match time, out of 42 minutes of air. TNA should change their slogan to "TNA, We are Wrestling.....on our Pay Per Views"

[tommyvercetti]

What the people who point out that there will be twice as much wrestling on a two hour show neglect to mention is the fact their will be twice as much of the other BS too.

I honestly think that right now TNA is the third best wrestling show on tv..behind Smackdown and ECW..and it's not too much better than RAW.

[Andrew is Good]

I think the "There will be more wrestling when there's two hours" excuse is somewhat legitimate, mostly because when I watch Impact, I've noticed that they are booking a 2 hour wrestling show for a 1 hour timeslot. A lot of the promos and vingettes could easily be spread out for a two hour show, leaving more time for matches.

Also, before Russo, the character development was pretty bad, especially in the X-Division. Now, there are more personalities to get behind.

ECW is a good example though, because despite it not being at all like the original ECW, it usually has some good wrestling on it and I think last week, had 4 matches, all of pretty good size length. Raw is becoming more interested in pop culture happenings, but still has time to put on some good matches, and Smackdown is old school meets new school, with your old school type of wrestling show, with a new school type of wrestling and length. WWE right now generally is being booked pretty well. TNA on the other hand, well, they need to do something to help their product out. And 2 hours definitely would be a big help, especially if they keep booking a 2 hour show for their 1 hour timeslot.

And it's not just ECW. OVW and DSW are tremendous shows, which are based mostly on wrestling, and further angles and storylines without all the gah gah like crazy promos and vingettes that TNA does tend to be having right now. It is kind of ironic though. 3 out of the 5 brands WWE currently has on television (ECW, OVW, and DSW for those fortunate to have bit torrent), they are one hour, and usually have 3 to 4 matches, and usually there is more wrestling then promos. The WWE is supposed to be the company that is more about entertainment and less about wrestling, and TNA's catchphrase is "We Are Wrestling", and are supposedly more about the professional wrestling then the entertainment aspect.

The ironing is delicious.

[Person With A Hat]

So long as they keep the same amount of promos of the 1 hour show, diminishing it somewhat and leave the rest of the 2 hour show to actual wrestling, they'll be okay.

[Big DSR Energy]

Also, before Russo, the character development was pretty bad, especially in the X-Division. Now, there are more personalities to get behind.

I fail to see how doing a Macho Man impression makes someone more likeable (or get-behind-able) than doing a hiptoss/cartwheel/dropkick.

I think I prefer before when the audience would cheer for people based on how well they wrestled. It is possible to show personality within a wrestling match.

[voiceboxisback]

andrewisgood said:

I think the "There will be more wrestling when there's two hours" excuse is somewhat legitimate, mostly because when I watch Impact, I've noticed that they are booking a 2 hour wrestling show for a 1 hour timeslot. A lot of the promos and vingettes could easily be spread out for a two hour show, leaving more time for matches.

Also, before Russo, the character development was pretty bad, especially in the X-Division. Now, there are more personalities to get behind.

ECW is a good example though, because despite it not being at all like the original ECW, it usually has some good wrestling on it and I think last week, had 4 matches, all of pretty good size length. Raw is becoming more interested in pop culture happenings, but still has time to put on some good matches, and Smackdown is old school meets new school, with your old school type of wrestling show, with a new school type of wrestling and length. WWE right now generally is being booked pretty well. TNA on the other hand, well, they need to do something to help their product out. And 2 hours definitely would be a big help, especially if they keep booking a 2 hour show for their 1 hour timeslot.

And it's not just ECW. OVW and DSW are tremendous shows, which are based mostly on wrestling, and further angles and storylines without all the gah gah like crazy promos and vingettes that TNA does tend to be having right now.

Yeah strong character development maybe was a little too well....strong in description of TNA's old character developement. Maybe acceptable would've been better...

[AriadosMan]

When they had a 2-hour Impact to mark the time switch to primetime, it seemed all they did was fill up the extra airtime with skits and shilling for their DVDs. The fact that TNA is constantly putting itself in the red by signing big names to hefty contracts ain't helping either.

[Deleted]

Also, before Russo, the character development was pretty bad, especially in the X-Division. Now, there are more personalities to get behind.

But since they have only 2 minutes to wrestle, there is no time to get behind them thus wasting the time for the character development as well.

[Andrew is Good]

dsr said:

Also, before Russo, the character development was pretty bad, especially in the X-Division. Now, there are more personalities to get behind.

I fail to see how doing a Macho Man impression makes someone more likeable (or get-behind-able) than doing a hiptoss/cartwheel/dropkick.

I think I prefer before when the audience would cheer for people based on how well they wrestled. It is possible to show personality within a wrestling match.

But how far did their angles go? How often were they actually used on tv? How often were they used as television jobbers. Before, Jay Lethal was a faceless jobber on TNA. Now, him and Sonjay make a pretty interesting duo thanks to the Paparazzi Productions and a little bit of Macho Madness for Jay Lethal.

When Austin Starr was Austin Aries on TNA, he was a jobber. Now, he's THE Austin Starr from Tv land, gets more time to talk, and usually wins more matches and he has more of a strong presence.

Not only that, but look at Alex Shelly, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong. 2 out of those 3 have good charisma and can cut good promos. And 2 of those 3 are still in TNA. Why is Roderick Strong not there? Because, despite being a good wrestler, he couldn't cut the mustard in the personality department, so TNA gave him the boot. Why was Chris Sabin basically a jobber until he got some personality? Why was Petey Williams barely on Tv after Team Canada until he got a personality as a babyface?

The list goes on.

[Michael Coello]

I don't think it's fare to compare ECW with TNA. They seem similar when you first look at them, but they're very different. There's a reason ECW has longer matches: Cause they don't gotta jam 8-11 matches or so into a PPV every month. ECW has 2 PPVs for itself, it shares with RAW & Smackdown 4 others, and recently has some cameos in the rest. There's no rush to have everything ready by some date. Also, they're working with less talent. And on the off chance that ECW needs some extra time to get something, you got either RAW or Smackdown to do there. TNA has 4 or 5 shows with no other shows to help to build up several matches to get people to buy the PPV. ECW doesn't have to cram anything into the show, thus it's more focusing on the TV instead of PPV.

[Deleted]

andrewisgood said:

Not only that, but look at Alex Shelly, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong. 2 out of those 3 have good charisma and can cut good promos. And 2 of those 3 are still in TNA. Why is Roderick Strong not there? Because, despite being a good wrestler, he couldn't cut the mustard in the personality department, so TNA gave him the boot.

Strong wasn't given the boot. If I remember correctly, he and Aries work a ROH show when they were told not to and were forced to sit until the remainder of their contracts. They offered both a new contract after that but, Strong wouldn't resign after that incident.

[Andrew is Good]

jinxed said:

andrewisgood said:

Not only that, but look at Alex Shelly, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong. 2 out of those 3 have good charisma and can cut good promos. And 2 of those 3 are still in TNA. Why is Roderick Strong not there? Because, despite being a good wrestler, he couldn't cut the mustard in the personality department, so TNA gave him the boot.

Strong wasn't given the boot. If I remember correctly, he and Aries work a ROH show when they were told not to and were forced to sit until the remainder of their contracts. They offered both a new contract after that but, Strong wouldn't resign after that incident.

My bad there.

[Big DSR Energy]

andrewisgood said:

dsr said:

I fail to see how doing a Macho Man impression makes someone more likeable (or get-behind-able) than doing a hiptoss/cartwheel/dropkick.

I think I prefer before when the audience would cheer for people based on how well they wrestled. It is possible to show personality within a wrestling match.

But how far did their angles go? How often were they actually used on tv? How often were they used as television jobbers. Before, Jay Lethal was a faceless jobber on TNA. Now, him and Sonjay make a pretty interesting duo thanks to the Paparazzi Productions and a little bit of Macho Madness for Jay Lethal.

When Austin Starr was Austin Aries on TNA, he was a jobber. Now, he's THE Austin Starr from Tv land, gets more time to talk, and usually wins more matches and he has more of a strong presence.

Not only that, but look at Alex Shelly, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong. 2 out of those 3 have good charisma and can cut good promos. And 2 of those 3 are still in TNA. Why is Roderick Strong not there? Because, despite being a good wrestler, he couldn't cut the mustard in the personality department, so TNA gave him the boot. Why was Chris Sabin basically a jobber until he got some personality? Why was Petey Williams barely on Tv after Team Canada until he got a personality as a babyface?

The list goes on.

Chris Sabin was a multiple-time X Division champion before the heel turn. And the X Division wrestlers, in general, were used for stuff like the World and Super X Cup tournaments.

Also, guys like Jay Lethal and Sonjay Dutt were used in skits (which is what they're doing a lot of now) to promote Jackass 2, and those were generally hated and considered detrimental to the X Division (not just on here, but elsewhere).

By the way, what possible feud could come of Jay Lethal doing a Macho Man impression? Other than Randy Savage himself feuding with Jay, there's really no meaning behind it. It's mildly amusing, but I don't see "mildly amusing skits" as having anything to do with storyline progression.

By the way, I didn't see Alex Shelley on Impact this week. And from what I remember, Austin "Starr" got "jobbed out" in that ladder match...a match that went about 5 minutes, not counting what happened during the commercials. So whoopie.

[Andrew is Good]

dsr said:

andrewisgood said:

But how far did their angles go? How often were they actually used on tv? How often were they used as television jobbers. Before, Jay Lethal was a faceless jobber on TNA. Now, him and Sonjay make a pretty interesting duo thanks to the Paparazzi Productions and a little bit of Macho Madness for Jay Lethal.

When Austin Starr was Austin Aries on TNA, he was a jobber. Now, he's THE Austin Starr from Tv land, gets more time to talk, and usually wins more matches and he has more of a strong presence.

Not only that, but look at Alex Shelly, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong. 2 out of those 3 have good charisma and can cut good promos. And 2 of those 3 are still in TNA. Why is Roderick Strong not there? Because, despite being a good wrestler, he couldn't cut the mustard in the personality department, so TNA gave him the boot. Why was Chris Sabin basically a jobber until he got some personality? Why was Petey Williams barely on Tv after Team Canada until he got a personality as a babyface?

The list goes on.

Chris Sabin was a multiple-time X Division champion before the heel turn. And the X Division wrestlers, in general, were used for stuff like the World and Super X Cup tournaments.

Also, guys like Jay Lethal and Sonjay Dutt were used in skits (which is what they're doing a lot of now) to promote Jackass 2, and those were generally hated and considered detrimental to the X Division (not just on here, but elsewhere).

By the way, what possible feud could come of Jay Lethal doing a Macho Man impression? Other than Randy Savage himself feuding with Jay, there's really no meaning behind it. It's mildly amusing, but I don't see "mildly amusing skits" as having anything to do with storyline progression.

By the way, I didn't see Alex Shelley on Impact this week. And from what I remember, Austin "Starr" got "jobbed out" in that ladder match...a match that went about 5 minutes, not counting what happened during the commercials. So whoopie.

Chris Sabin was a jobber when they got on Spike Tv, and barely did anything for a good long time.

One doesn't get "jobbed out" when they lose a match. When they consistently lose matches, don't have regular promos, and don't really have much of a character, then they're jobbers.

Not everyone has to be on the show every week. Alex Shelly's role became more prominent when he founded Paprazzi Productions. Before that, he didn't do much at all. Why? No character.

And Jay Lethal, the impressions and the Randy Savage impression could just be part of his character. Besides, they're just in the beginning stages of that. Wait and see what happens.

[Big DSR Energy]

Chris Sabin was a jobber when they got on Spike Tv, and barely did anything for a good long time.

This was in the midst of the "Samoa Joe squashes the X Division" phase...which while it made Joe look like a million bucks, hurt the X Division really bad. I'll sorta concede the point.

One doesn't get "jobbed out" when they lose a match. When they consistently lose matches, don't have regular promos, and don't really have much of a character, then they're jobbers.

And when they consistently cut promos, and don't have matches, then you don't have a wrestling show. You've got a sitcom.

Not everyone has to be on the show every week. Alex Shelly's role became more prominent when he founded Paprazzi Productions. Before that, he didn't do much at all. Why? No character.

He had an unorthodox style of wrestling, and showed personality in his matches. Which is what led to the papparazzi productions gig in the first place.

And Jay Lethal, the impressions and the Randy Savage impression could just be part of his character. Besides, they're just in the beginning stages of that. Wait and see what happens.

I'm only willing to wait so long. I love wrestling, obviously, but there's only so much non-wrestling I'm willing to sit through.

[Andrew is Good]

But with Alex Shelly, what else did he do? What notable things on television did he do before he was given the video camera?

Again, like, there does need to be more wrestling, and wrestling is a huge part of the wrestling show. That's obvious. I feel that when Russo started in, there was wrestling on the show, and there was also more development of personalities. Now, they're just really having a tough time, and it was said that they want to get all the guys on the show in at once so everyone will get a pay day every week.

I want there to be more wrestling on the show. But they definitely have the personality down, and it's a lot better then before. That was one of my main critiques was the guys lacked personality and they lacked heels. Now they fixed that, but now they have a show with more promos then wrestling. So once they find that happy medium, everything will be all good in the hood as Taz would say.

[Big DSR Energy]

But with Alex Shelly, what else did he do? What notable things on television did he do before he was given the video camera?

He always had the camera with him, though. He would tape his matches. That was what he did before the Paparazzi Productions stuff. But the camera was off to the side, and he wrestled. He was a member of Team America in the World X Cup tournament.

I'll agree, there seems to be a "too much of one, not enough of the other" mentality to TNA's product. I'm not saying that giving wrestlers personalities (or rather letting them show that they have personalities) is a bad thing. What I am saying is that I watch a wrestling show in order to see wrestling. Personality clashes are the reason why wrestlers have feuds (well, one of the reasons, anyway). But if all you're showing me is personalities, I'm gonna tune out.

However, if they ever get to that happy medium, I'm totally on board with you.

[antimcmahon]

I Kind of look at this from both sides of the spectrum. Although like everybody else I wish that the TNA of old is what we were seeing lately. I have learned to accept the fact that now Russo is in charge the vision I once saw for TNA is now over.

But when I compare TNA to WWE. I still find TNA to be a more exciting product overall. And that is only my opinion, I don't expect people to agree with it. In fact I can see why many of them don't.

There is so much WWE programming that everything that goes down seems so watered down and meaning less to me(again only my opinion). Especially with people jumping from roster to roster on a given night. Defeating the whole purpose of the "Brand Extension" to begin with. What bores me about WWE most of all is that they water down the in ring style. Time after time I was let down by matches I thought were gonna be good because of Vince's "WWE Style".

TNA on the other hand to me is something different.Something unique. Most of all it kind of reminds of how I remember wrestling to be. Where as your not given so much of it so it keeps you wanting more. TNA gives you an hour a week and a ppv a month. Since there is only one show a week to build off of it makes that one show so meaningful.

As far as Russo's booking goes. For me it's always been some good some bad. Even though his bad can be really bad. His good can be really great. I credit him for giving me some of the most exciting television in the late 90's and gulp 2000.

Although I agree his usage of the fat oily guy and misusage of Ron Killings are in excuseable. I do think for the most part his character development has been very beneficial. AJ Styles, and Chris Sabin's heel turns have made me care way more about them. And Petey williams face turn gave new life to what could have been a down turn in his career. I also have enjoyed the PCS and although I wish we could get more X division matches. It has braught out the best in Lethal and Dutt's personalities. Shelley and Nash are just absolute gold. Not too mention Russo has made it so many feuds carry over very well. And I atleast have found them to be very enjoyable for the most part.

As far as his over usage of stipulations go. I agree, in fact I too wish TNA would go back to old. With a more mat based style. But on the bright side. Sometimes Russo's hyperactive concept bouts turn out to be full of excitment. I enjoyed the Slamboree Triple Decker Cage,The War Games 2000 Triple Decker Cage on Nitro, and even gulp the Human Torch match at Great American Bash. More recently The "Little Italy Street Fight" and "The Prison Yard Match". These Concepts were all stupid. But once performed I found them exciting and enjoyable. And if Elevation X was his it's one that sounds good so far.

All In all I think he has made the product less bland. I like everyone else wish that his character development and the more wrestling based TNA of old could mesh together. And when he had 2 hours it did. In fact it meshed together pretty niceley. So that's why I have high hopes that when TNA has 2 hours they'll be alright. And if not for nothing else, I watch them because they don't water down their wrestlers styles.

As far as TNA's financial status goes. Things aren't going to turn around over night. I don't think Russo's booking has affected this or ratings. I think TNA is a promotion that is still starting to get it's feet wet. In WCW's begining they lost millions of dollars before turning around and running neck and neck with WWF for years. Whether or not TNA can survive long enough to do the same remains to be seen. And it's gonna take time before it ever will. But since they went from being predicted to lasting 4 weeks to. To lasting 4 years, makes me give them the benefit of the doubt.

That's my rant on the matter. Again this is only my opinion. And I respect any disagreements people might have. In fact I would probably agree with 85% of them. But this is how I feel about it.

[Aya Reiko]

WCW was profitable only one year during its entire lifespan.

Right now, I see little good about TNA, inside and out. Adding a second hour will likely compound the problems than resolve them.
Short-term things I think TNA can do that may help heal some of those problems:

Either make Russo part of a team of writers or dismiss him. Russo, while he may have flashes of inspiration every now and then, is no head writer. He never was, nor will he ever be.
Overhaul the management. The way TNA is being run is severely inefficient and costly. The need to find people who can make the show run more efficiently and within its limits.
Drop Angle, Sting, et al when their contracts come due unless they're willing to take sizable pay-cuts. TNA is in no condition to make such extravagant contracts.
Stop making the same mistake WCW did and stop the practice of hiring WWE/WCW cast-offs and booking them over your own stars.
Start looking for your own Hammerstein. TNA can only stay in the cradle that is Orlando for so long. Especially since they earn nothing at the gate.
More wrestling, less skits. Be the alternative to the WWE, not a carbon copy of them.

[Jason Todd Grisham]

Russo IS part of a team of writers.

Well, the head of the team of writers.