SD v Raw 2007 Thread 15:Bullet With A Name Edition

[Chainsaw]

godz said:

So, in case THQ is reading these boards, I'm going to do what I always do and give them free instructions on how to make the 2008 game the greatest SD ever. They took some of my ideas for 2007 (the hot spots, the new way tables work, etc) so lets see if they do it again.

- On the subject of tables, ANY move that lines up with them should break the table. IE, the regular, non-ultimate control moves. If I set a table up near a corner, I should be able to Acid Drop someone through it. The tables should not just be pushed/nudged aside by the move and go unbroken. In fact, once a table has been set up, you shouldn't be able to push it AT ALL, unless you hold down the A button to pick it up and carry it like you can with tables, ladders this year, to ensure they dont get accidentally bumped outta position.

- Weapons need to be addressed something fierce. I'm sick of 2 chairs, a sledgehammer, and now the barb wire 2x4. The hammer and 2x4 feel out of place in 90% of the matches I do. This should be the new set up. The bottom of the ring has a chair. The left (side facing the ramp) has a table. The top has a ladder. The right has a signature weapon, which would be a new addition. This takes the place of the sledgehammer and the 2x4. Each wrestler in the game (And each CAW you create) will be assigned a signature weapon. Choices available would be the barb wire 2x4, barb wire bat, sledgehammer, singapore cane, Head, sledgehammer, customized/painted chair, shelaylee (And I know I didnt spell that anywhere NEAR correctly. Dont worry. THQ wouldnt either), a branding iron, a metal briefcase, and more. Also, add Lilian/Tony sitting near the corner where the announcers are. You can walk up and shove them out of their chair to take their chair, as well as pick up the monitors from the table and a title belt if it is a title match. Every wrestler in the match can go to the right side of the ring and get their signature weapon, not just one. For instance, if the match is HHH vs Tommy Dreamer for the ECW title, the available amount of weapons out at one time will be: Two chairs, a sledgehammer, a singapore cane, a table, a ladder, 4 monitors, the ring bell and a title belt. More weapons can be found in the crowd, and they can now be thrown over the barricade and brought to the ring as well. If you do not have a signature weapon, but your opponent does, you will get theirs out. If neither of you have one, it will be a ladder, chair, or table at random.

- Grapple moves. DAMN the catagories! They're gone! What this means is, no longer do you have to choose 3 crappy "power" moves your CAW would never use just to get access to that ONE sweet ass powerbomb you want. Mix old school, brawler, whatever, to your hearts content. I personally dont really care if some online 12 year old wants to give their 500 pound CAW Rey Misterio's moves. At least, I'm not willing to sacrafice my own experience to keep him from doing it.

- Weapon grapples! The ONE thing the LoW series did right. These moves will include standard moves like putting a trash can over someone's head and then hitting it, the "swing, duck, swing again" cane spot, and finishers such as a White Russian Legsweep.

- Speaking of finishers, we're adding two new types of finishers, too: Ultimate Finishers and Tag Team Finishers. To do this, we must slightly upgrade the finisher system, to allow for TWO stored finishers at once, plus a flashing momentum meter for the possibility of THREE finishers. Tag finishers will be moves like the 3-D or Murdoch/Cade's High-Low Lariat. They are done when both tag partners have a stored finisher and do the command at the same time. Easy enough.

Now for the Ultimate Finishers. Not EVERYONE will have one of these. These are mega-moves that can only be done when you have TWO stored finishers AND a flashing momentum meter. Basically, if they hit, you ain't getting up. These will have a slightly "cinematic" feel to them as they can take a few moments to watch. The Van Terminator, for instance, would be an Ultimate Finisher. As RVD, have two stored finishers and a flashing momentum meter and whip your opponent to the corner, then grab a chair, trash can, title belt, or similarly shaped weapon and hit the L and R buttons at the same time. Bam, lights out. Naturally this move will be different for all wrestlers, but, if it hits, you pretty much win automatically as long as you pin them. However, if an opponent counters it, you lose all 3 finishers, so its something of a risk. For the guys who dont nessacarily have an ultra damaging manuver, this can be a comedy move as the ultimate way of taunting your opponent. Note that both heels AND faces can now steal finishers, as I'd have Super Dirty moves done away with.

- CAW needs an overhaul big time. Get rid of all these stupid stripey, wavey, flowery bullcrap fabric patterns no one ever uses. Keep the basic tye-dye, solid, and a few other patterns, but put the emphasis on CUSTOMIZING the designs yourself. This means ALL CAWS MUST BE PLAYABLE ON LIVE AGAIN! You afraid some kid might be offended seeing a design on a CAW? Then add in a parental control option to make all designs transparent for those of us under 8 who might be offended by a nWo logo. Make ALL sleeve/leg/hem lengths changeable. Give us more decent mask/facepaints. For crying out loud GIVE US CAPES! I'm sick of seeing Superman and Batman CAWs without CAPES!

- Speaking of CAW, get rid of the s****y CAW names the announcers say, I'm sick of everyone being THE LEGEND KILLER and SEXY GIRL. This is crap and you know it. Do like Legends of Wrestling (Ok they did a FEW things right) and let us combine hundreds of first and last names, as well as a plethora of nicknames as well.

- STOP CHANGING MY MOVES! Why do my moonsaulting CAWs now do elbowdrops off of ladders and balconies? Oh, thats right. Cause ya'll were too lazy to make a non-pinning version of those moves. Well, do it! And for the love of god, is a non-Eddie or DLo frog splash too much to ask? I'm sick of giving all my CAWs The Money Shot cause its the only decent splash in the game.

- The reversal system needs to be totally re-done. I'm sick of every match I play being "Who can hit R2 faster". I'm also sick of the repeated reversal shoving matches. Moves are not reversed before they are even done. You should be able to reverse mid-move instead, and there needs to be some way of limiting the amount of reversing that can be done. You never see 400 counters in one match. Maybe earning reversals instead of just automatically doing them, but then people will abuse the hell out of it online. This is the one area where I dont know exactly what to do, but, I DO know that reversals need to be unique to each weight class. What I mean is, if I see Kane backflipping out of german suplexes for another year, I'ma have to kill someone.

- Speaking of weight classes.....240 POUND HEAVYWEIGHTS NEED TO STOP NO-SELLING CRUISERWEIGHT STRIKES LIKE THEY ARE VADER! EVERY single move needs to be customized for weight class. For instance, Matt Hardy SHOULD be able to strain himself and vertical suplex Kane, but under no circumstances should he be able to powerbomb him. Nor should Johnny Nitro shrug off Super Crazy's dropkicks like he's nothing.

- Add in a spectator/commentator mode for online matches. Wouldn't it be fun as hell for you to be able to watch your friends matches, and commentate during them in place of JR or whoever? I think it would.

- This may not be a popular decision, but, DAMN THE VOICE OVERS! This will allow for TRUE BRANCHING STORYLINES in season mode, and to be able to play as EVERY superstar in season mode, and no longer will your CAWs sound like idiots. Text is FINE! I do NOT play wrestling games for some artistic Zelda style experience! And think of the disc space this will save for far more important things. It'll also allow updated gimmicks to not feel out of place with the voice.

- Shades of No Mercy, I want TWO-FOUR copies of every in game wrestler. They will use the same basic character model/animations, but can allow for different attire, music, and a movelist. Wouldnt it be GREAT if Mick Foley was ONE character, with Cactus, Dude, and Mankind alternate attires? Each with their own music and moveset, but, it only counts as ONE character? I certainly think so. This can also allow for heel, face, or Japan versions of your favorite characters who may look the same but use different moves, such as a Japanese styled Hogan with more wrestling manuvers, an Axe Bomber and the enziguri, all moves he used in Japan.

- This is one of those niggling, non important things that'd be cool I think...create-a-fan! Why not, it was in Madden after all....I think it'd be nice to create a fan or two and put them in the crowd with a custom sign, at least.

- Bring back the backstage arena, not just parking lot and bar, and give us the ability to travel around the backstage areas DURING matches, not just start and finish backstage, but go up the ramp, like in the old SD's.

Now, for the roster. Naturally, there's no way to predict who will still be around come November, but, assume the game will be released in the next few months with this roster I am suggesting. Note a new feature in the roster, as well, WCW and ECW Legends. This allows for some popular guys who may not have achieved their greatest successes in WWE (Or even wrestled there) to still be included in the game due to their achievements elsewhere. I will list proposed finishers here too, and their trademark weapon if they have one.

RAW:

1. Carlito (Backcracker, Overdrive, Apple Spit + Rollup pin [Ultimate Finisher])
2. Charlie Haas (Haas of Pain.....Knock Lillian Off The Apron. LOL. I dunno)
3. Chris Masters (Master Lock, Polish Hammer that sees Masters stalk them then bust 'em open)
4. Edge (Ground Spear, Running Spear, One man Conchairto [UF])
5. Eugene (Stunner, Rock Bottom, Tard Rage where he becomes stronger for a short period of time [UF])
6. Hacksaw Jim Duggan (Three Point Stance Clothesline, ref bump + 2x4 assault [UF], 2x4 (Signature Weapon))
7. Jeff Hardy (Twist of Fate, Swanton Bomb, Swanton Off a Balcony [UF, outside the ring only])
8. John Cena (FU, STFU)
9. Johnny Nitro (Sorry I dont know what he does, I cant stand him)
10. JTG (Does he have a solo finish? I dunno. Him and Shad together have their finisher)
11. Lance Cade (Lariat, Double Lariat Tag Team finish)
12. Randy Orton (RKO, Getting suspended, Gym Bag Poop [UF])
13. Ric Flair (Figure Four, Dancing Figure Four, Series of low blows into a Figure Four [UF])
14 & 15. Rory and Robbie (I dont know if they have solo finishes either, but, the game needs good teams)
16. Shad Gaspard (Running Ghetto Boot plus tag finisher)
17. Shawn Michaels (Sweet Chin Music standing, Sweet Chin Music with opponent on ground, High flying elbow drop into a Superkick [UF], Ladder or Sledgehammer [SW])
18. Shelton Benjamin (T-Bone, Dragon Whip)
19. Snitsky (Running Big Boot, Pumphandle Slam, Baby Punt [UF, super taunt move])
20. Super Crazy (Moonsault, Balcony Moonsault [UF, must be done in crowd])
21. The Great Khali (BRAIN CHOP, Chokebomb, 790 Shooting Star Swansault [UF])
22. Trevor Murdoch (Top Rope Bulldog, Low Lariat w/ Cade)
23. Triple H (Pedigree, Ref Bump + Sledgehammer Assault [UF], Sledgehammer [SW])
24. Umaga (Samoan Spike, Big Splash Through Table [UF])
25. Val Venis (Money Shot)

SmackDown:

26. Batista (Sorry I dont know what he does besides the Batista Bomb. Havent watched one of his matches in 2 years)
27. Boogeyman (Ditto. Give him some sort of worm move for his UF)
28. Brian Kendrick (Havent seem him lately either. I dont watch SD, can you tell?)
29. Chavo Guerrero (Frog Splash)
30. Chris Benoit (Crossface, Flying Headbutt)
31. Finlay (Does he still do the Emerald Fusion looking move? Also have him throw Little Bastard at an opponent as his [UF] Shilelgahy [SW])
32. Funaki (Tornado DDT, Fisherman Buster)
33. Gregory Helms (Shining Wizard, whatever else he does now)
34. Jimmy Wang Yang (Guh?)
35. Joey Mercury (Yeah. I hate MNM.)
36. Kane (Chokeslam, Tombstone)
37. King Booker (Book End, Axe Kick)
38. Mark Henry (Bearhug, Powerslam)
39. Matt Hardy (Twist of Fate, Legdrop)
40. Ken Kennedy (Whatever he does)
41. Paul London (Yup)
42. Rey Misterio (619, Cry About Eddie and Automatically Win [UF])
43. Undertaker (Tombstone, Last Ride)
44. William Regal (Regal Stretch, Running Knee, Power of the Punch [UF])

ECW:

45. Balls Mahoney (Nutcracker Suite, Ball Breaker, Killer Chairshot [Weapon Finisher] Signature Chair [SW])
46. CM Punk (Anaconda Vice)
47. Hardcore Holly (Alabama Slam)
48. Kevin Thorn (Rope Assisted Cutter, Crucifix Powerbomb)
49. Lashley (Spear, Dominator, Look like a joke and talk like a homo [Automatic])
50. Little Guido (Sicilian Slice)
51. RVD (Frog Splash, Van Daminator [WF], Van Terminator [UF])
52. Sabu (Triple Jump Moonsault, Camel Clutch, Atomic Arabian Facebuster [UF] Double Top Rope Attack through table [Tag finish with Van Dam])
53. The Sandman (Rolling Rock, White Russian Legsweep [WF], Rapid Cane Assault + Beer Guzzle [UF] Singapore Cane [SW])
54. Stevie Richards (Steviekick, Stevie-T, has alternate bWo attire)
55. Test (Running Big Boot, Test Cutter thing whatever its called)
56. Tommy Dreamer (DDT, Death Valley Driver, Chair Assisted Baseball Slide in corner [UF] Singapore Cane [SW])

Divas:

57. Victoria (Widow's Peak)
58. Mickie James (Mick Kick, Mickie DDT)
59. Ariel (STO)
60. Torrie (Facebuster)
61. Candice (Whatever)
62. Melina (Whatever)

WWE Legends

63. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Stunner)
64. The Rock (Hollywood Rock attire, Rock Bottom, People's Elbow)
65. Hulk Hogan (Hulkamania, nWo, and 2002 comeback attires. Legdrop, Hulk Up [UF, Hogan becomes unstoppable during this time and if he hits a legdrop its an auto-pin])
66. Randy Savage (Big Elbow)
67. Jake Roberts (DDT. Unleashes Damian in his win animation)
68. Mr. Perfect (Perfect-Plex)
69. Rowdy Roddy Piper (Sleeper)
70. Demolition (Demolition Decapitation)
71. Sgt. Slaughter (Cobra Clutch)
72. Razor Ramon (Razor's Edge)
73. Mick Foley with all his gimmicks as alternate attires. Cactus Jack, Mick Foley and Mankind spread thumbtacks around as one of their weapon finishers, Dude Love....dances and the opponent dances with him, like the old Michael Jackson game!
74. Goldust (Curtain Call, Shattered Dreams)


WCW Legends

75. Big Van Vader (Vader Bomb, Powerbomb, Vadersault, and for the love of god get his steam helmet for his intro)
76. Abdullah the Butcher (Sudanese Elbow Drop, Fork Stab)
77. Arn Anderson (DDT, Spinebuster)
78. Dusty Rhodes (Make him fat with the long curly hair, dammit! Bionic Elbow of course)
79. Sid Vicious (Simply because I ran out of room in WWE. Chokeslam and Powerbomb)
80. Stan Hansen (Lariat)

(Just going with these guys for now as its hard to think of other WCW guys who arent either in WWE, TNA, or on bad terms with WWE and not likely to be in)

ECW Legends

81. Terry Funk (Spinning Toe Hold, Moonsault, Branding Iron [SW], Ladder Spin [WF])
82. The Blue Meanie (Meaniesault)
83. Hollywood Nova (Take your pick of his moves)
84. New Jack (187 Chair Shot, tons of weapons)
85. Masato Tanaka (Roaring Elbow, Diamond Dust, Chair Assisted Tornado DDT [WF])
86. Mike Awesome (Awesomebomb, Running Awesomebomb, Awesomebomb over the top rope to table set up on floor [UF])
87. Al Snow (Snowplow, Head [SW])

Now, I know this is a HUGE roster, BUT....this game should be ONLY on the 360 and PS3, do NOT cater to inferior 7 year old hardware this go round!

Anyone who read this far....congratulations.


Oh, and custom soundtracks for CAWs goes without sayin....so that means we wont get them ,once again.

I'm quoting this because I'd like this to be on every page of every SDvR thread on the board. Because I agree with the whole thing, and In case anyone from THQ is reading.

[Ace Diamond]

chainsawiscaw said:

Well, this is fairly depressing news for me.

'Smackdown! vs RAW 2007' has turned out to be one of THQ's best selling
wrestling title ever. The game which was released for the XBox 360, PS2 and
PSP, came out just in time for the holidays last year and so far it sold
over 1.2 million units in the United States and over half a million copies
in the United Kingdom. This is the first same game to be released for
Microsoft's XBox and Sony's Playstation. The 'Smackdown!' game franchise was
only available before for the Playstation.

So much for the people letting their wallets do their talking about the condition of the game.

Once again, I say it's because of the total lack of a competing product.

[Chainsaw]

aodpilot said:

chainsawiscaw said:

Well, this is fairly depressing news for me.

'Smackdown! vs RAW 2007' has turned out to be one of THQ's best selling
wrestling title ever. The game which was released for the XBox 360, PS2 and
PSP, came out just in time for the holidays last year and so far it sold
over 1.2 million units in the United States and over half a million copies
in the United Kingdom. This is the first same game to be released for
Microsoft's XBox and Sony's Playstation. The 'Smackdown!' game franchise was
only available before for the Playstation.

So much for the people letting their wallets do their talking about the condition of the game.

Once again, I say it's because of the total lack of a competing product.

I also blame the "casual fan" audience, both are which are main reasons why the Madden series keeps making money hand over fist.

[Michael Coello]

aodpilot said:

chainsawiscaw said:

Well, this is fairly depressing news for me.

'Smackdown! vs RAW 2007' has turned out to be one of THQ's best selling
wrestling title ever. The game which was released for the XBox 360, PS2 and
PSP, came out just in time for the holidays last year and so far it sold
over 1.2 million units in the United States and over half a million copies
in the United Kingdom. This is the first same game to be released for
Microsoft's XBox and Sony's Playstation. The 'Smackdown!' game franchise was
only available before for the Playstation.

So much for the people letting their wallets do their talking about the condition of the game.

Once again, I say it's because of the total lack of a competing product.

Acclaim seems to be dead, so no more Legends of Wrestling.

Rumble Roses isn't a competitor( It's the WEW to THQ's WWE )

The stuff in japan won't appeal to mainstream American fans.

Def-Jam left the wrestling section with Fight For New York.

iMPACT! & Pro Wrestling X won't be released for a good while, and there's no guarantee that they'll be good.

[Deleted]

godz said:

nichotine said:

Sadly I think voice overs are here to stay, though I completely agree with you, I get this feeling Yukes panders more to reviewers like IGN than us wee ones, and IGN seems to want voice over everything now.

You're right, but, IGN would review a WWE game as the best thing ever if it just featured two different John Cenas punching each other for 10 hours straight, and the mutants on their forums would defend it.

I actually read those boards just for laughs, to see what they say next. But I think my brain starts to devolve after reading +100 threads of nothing but l33t speak.

[Sajoa Moe]

mightykretzler said:

godz said:

You're right, but, IGN would review a WWE game as the best thing ever if it just featured two different John Cenas punching each other for 10 hours straight, and the mutants on their forums would defend it.

I actually read those boards just for laughs, to see what they say next. But I think my brain starts to devolve after reading +100 threads of nothing but l33t speak.

I remember one guy that started a thread saying that Goldberg was guaranteed for SVR06. Everybody laughed at him, but he kept bragging that his thread was getting bigger, and that he'd have the last laugh when Goldberg was on the roster. Every time the thread filled a page, he'd post something like "wow 11 pages how far can this go?".

Then I decided to start my own ten-page thread, called The Ten-Page Thread. It consisted mostly of facts about cheese.

[cronker]

I agree with just about everything you posted there, Godz.

A few things of my own, if I may.

The non-linear season mode promised this year was pants. When I'm told that I'm being put in a tag team with "my partner", why is it that I cannot choose him/her? It's always FING Matt Hardy or some other assclown. I should be able to choose my partner - they had this in HCTP when you chose your stable.

Speaking of which, why not just take HCTP and update it for 2008. HCTP was clearly the best wrestling game in the SD series.

I agree totally with the rubbish weapons on offer. Why not go totally nuts with the options? Each wrestler can choose their sig weapon.

Match rules options: Before beginning a season, you should be able to control match rules. You should be able to turn off DQ's and count-outs manually, should be able to have a "blood" controller, so that if you wanted to, you could develop a truly extreme rules competition. There should be options for barb wire ring ropes, thumb tacks, fire etc.

You should also be able to create a luchador style competition if you so wish.

Create-A-Brand: With the above ideas in mind, you could create WWE: All Japan or WWE: Luche Libre or WWE: Diva comps. Similar to a GM mode, you create your roster, your style of wrestling, hire announcers and choose between a number of season modes. The storylines in each of the season options basically remain the same, but your particular brand of wrestling becomes the focus. So even though there is perhaps an "irresistable force/immovable object" storyline going on, if you are playing your extreme brand roster, the matches become brutal blood baths, where the diva brand might be all about bra/panties girl vs decent girl wrestler. I dunno just an idea.

[Sajoa Moe]

bassplayer said:

Create-A-Brand: With the above ideas in mind, you could create WWE: All Japan or WWE: Luche Libre or WWE: Diva comps. Similar to a GM mode, you create your roster, your style of wrestling, hire announcers and choose between a number of season modes. The storylines in each of the season options basically remain the same, but your particular brand of wrestling becomes the focus. So even though there is perhaps an "irresistable force/immovable object" storyline going on, if you are playing your extreme brand roster, the matches become brutal blood baths, where the diva brand might be all about bra/panties girl vs decent girl wrestler. I dunno just an idea.

But then people will create a TNA brand, and you can't have that.

[mysterydriver]

overgiver said:

This may have been addressd, but I ask anyway. I know to unlock the ONS II arena, I have to win Money in the Bank. Does it have to be during the season, or just any Money in the Bank?

Any MitB match with Legend Difficulty.

[Shark Jumpin']

I dig the Ultimate Finishers, just because I'm a sucker for ending a match with authority. As is, I try to get two to chain together (ie Spider Suplex/Shooting Star Press or Stunner 4 and Super Kick) so that would make my life easier.

Also, how many dirty finishers are there? I've only seen two.

["St. Louis Viper" Buck Summers]

We NEED tag finishers. 3D, Sweet & Sour (Cade & Murdoch's lariat/chopblock), the Doomsday Device, WGTT's Superkick/German suplex, the Snapshot, the Hart Attack, we sohuld be able to do all of those, but only as finishers.

[Deleted]

buckyayo said:

We NEED tag finishers. 3D, Sweet & Sour (Cade & Murdoch's lariat/chopblock), the Doomsday Device, WGTT's Superkick/German suplex, the Snapshot, the Hart Attack, we sohuld be able to do all of those, but only as finishers.

Agreed, there are REALLY vicious tag team moves in this game as regular moves, they should just have the standard moves like holding the guys arm for someone to kick him in the ribs, double hip toss and things, make the really big ones finishers.

Again....not that it matters, every move is a finisher in this game, bahhhhhh.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

And the selection of REGULAR tag team moves is pretty crappy. How come the only double team hiptoss available sees the guys performing it falling down, Hardyz style? I swear I've given all my CAWs combinations of Double Punches, Double Suplex, Double Clothesline, Kick to Gut, Double Stomp and Body Attack and Whip.

[Ace Diamond]

RAW2 had some of the better double team moves I think. Only because they had long execution time, almost as if they were finishers (I think they may have been treated as such), though it was pretty much only the well known moves for the most part (3D, Whazzup, Omega Event, Poetry in Motion, etc.) still kinda nice though.

I'm not too annoyed by the tag moves, only because it's still a good number, though the fact they didn't put in the Snap Shot is stupid as hell.

[Chris the Bambikiller]

Excellent, excellent post, Godz. But what really made me dream was this:

godz said:

67. Jake Roberts (DDT. Unleashes Damian in his win animation)

Now I want an old school Undertaker who puts his opponent in a body bag and a Million Dollar Man who puts dollar bills in their mouth!

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

bambikiller said:

Excellent, excellent post, Godz. But what really made me dream was this:

godz said:

67. Jake Roberts (DDT. Unleashes Damian in his win animation)

Now I want an old school Undertaker who puts his opponent in a body bag and a Million Dollar Man who puts dollar bills in their mouth!

Yeah, I agree on both of those. Why not? If Austin can do his turnbuckle posing, and Kane gets his pyro....

[Chainsaw]

godz said:

So, in case THQ is reading these boards, I'm going to do what I always do and give them free instructions on how to make the 2008 game the greatest SD ever. They took some of my ideas for 2007 (the hot spots, the new way tables work, etc) so lets see if they do it again.

- On the subject of tables, ANY move that lines up with them should break the table. IE, the regular, non-ultimate control moves. If I set a table up near a corner, I should be able to Acid Drop someone through it. The tables should not just be pushed/nudged aside by the move and go unbroken. In fact, once a table has been set up, you shouldn't be able to push it AT ALL, unless you hold down the A button to pick it up and carry it like you can with tables, ladders this year, to ensure they dont get accidentally bumped outta position.

- Weapons need to be addressed something fierce. I'm sick of 2 chairs, a sledgehammer, and now the barb wire 2x4. The hammer and 2x4 feel out of place in 90% of the matches I do. This should be the new set up. The bottom of the ring has a chair. The left (side facing the ramp) has a table. The top has a ladder. The right has a signature weapon, which would be a new addition. This takes the place of the sledgehammer and the 2x4. Each wrestler in the game (And each CAW you create) will be assigned a signature weapon. Choices available would be the barb wire 2x4, barb wire bat, sledgehammer, singapore cane, Head, sledgehammer, customized/painted chair, shelaylee (And I know I didnt spell that anywhere NEAR correctly. Dont worry. THQ wouldnt either), a branding iron, a metal briefcase, and more. Also, add Lilian/Tony sitting near the corner where the announcers are. You can walk up and shove them out of their chair to take their chair, as well as pick up the monitors from the table and a title belt if it is a title match. Every wrestler in the match can go to the right side of the ring and get their signature weapon, not just one. For instance, if the match is HHH vs Tommy Dreamer for the ECW title, the available amount of weapons out at one time will be: Two chairs, a sledgehammer, a singapore cane, a table, a ladder, 4 monitors, the ring bell and a title belt. More weapons can be found in the crowd, and they can now be thrown over the barricade and brought to the ring as well. If you do not have a signature weapon, but your opponent does, you will get theirs out. If neither of you have one, it will be a ladder, chair, or table at random.

- Grapple moves. DAMN the catagories! They're gone! What this means is, no longer do you have to choose 3 crappy "power" moves your CAW would never use just to get access to that ONE sweet ass powerbomb you want. Mix old school, brawler, whatever, to your hearts content. I personally dont really care if some online 12 year old wants to give their 500 pound CAW Rey Misterio's moves. At least, I'm not willing to sacrafice my own experience to keep him from doing it.

- Weapon grapples! The ONE thing the LoW series did right. These moves will include standard moves like putting a trash can over someone's head and then hitting it, the "swing, duck, swing again" cane spot, and finishers such as a White Russian Legsweep.

- Speaking of finishers, we're adding two new types of finishers, too: Ultimate Finishers and Tag Team Finishers. To do this, we must slightly upgrade the finisher system, to allow for TWO stored finishers at once, plus a flashing momentum meter for the possibility of THREE finishers. Tag finishers will be moves like the 3-D or Murdoch/Cade's High-Low Lariat. They are done when both tag partners have a stored finisher and do the command at the same time. Easy enough.

Now for the Ultimate Finishers. Not EVERYONE will have one of these. These are mega-moves that can only be done when you have TWO stored finishers AND a flashing momentum meter. Basically, if they hit, you ain't getting up. These will have a slightly "cinematic" feel to them as they can take a few moments to watch. The Van Terminator, for instance, would be an Ultimate Finisher. As RVD, have two stored finishers and a flashing momentum meter and whip your opponent to the corner, then grab a chair, trash can, title belt, or similarly shaped weapon and hit the L and R buttons at the same time. Bam, lights out. Naturally this move will be different for all wrestlers, but, if it hits, you pretty much win automatically as long as you pin them. However, if an opponent counters it, you lose all 3 finishers, so its something of a risk. For the guys who dont nessacarily have an ultra damaging manuver, this can be a comedy move as the ultimate way of taunting your opponent. Note that both heels AND faces can now steal finishers, as I'd have Super Dirty moves done away with.

- CAW needs an overhaul big time. Get rid of all these stupid stripey, wavey, flowery bullcrap fabric patterns no one ever uses. Keep the basic tye-dye, solid, and a few other patterns, but put the emphasis on CUSTOMIZING the designs yourself. This means ALL CAWS MUST BE PLAYABLE ON LIVE AGAIN! You afraid some kid might be offended seeing a design on a CAW? Then add in a parental control option to make all designs transparent for those of us under 8 who might be offended by a nWo logo. Make ALL sleeve/leg/hem lengths changeable. Give us more decent mask/facepaints. For crying out loud GIVE US CAPES! I'm sick of seeing Superman and Batman CAWs without CAPES!

- Speaking of CAW, get rid of the s****y CAW names the announcers say, I'm sick of everyone being THE LEGEND KILLER and SEXY GIRL. This is crap and you know it. Do like Legends of Wrestling (Ok they did a FEW things right) and let us combine hundreds of first and last names, as well as a plethora of nicknames as well.

- STOP CHANGING MY MOVES! Why do my moonsaulting CAWs now do elbowdrops off of ladders and balconies? Oh, thats right. Cause ya'll were too lazy to make a non-pinning version of those moves. Well, do it! And for the love of god, is a non-Eddie or DLo frog splash too much to ask? I'm sick of giving all my CAWs The Money Shot cause its the only decent splash in the game.

- The reversal system needs to be totally re-done. I'm sick of every match I play being "Who can hit R2 faster". I'm also sick of the repeated reversal shoving matches. Moves are not reversed before they are even done. You should be able to reverse mid-move instead, and there needs to be some way of limiting the amount of reversing that can be done. You never see 400 counters in one match. Maybe earning reversals instead of just automatically doing them, but then people will abuse the hell out of it online. This is the one area where I dont know exactly what to do, but, I DO know that reversals need to be unique to each weight class. What I mean is, if I see Kane backflipping out of german suplexes for another year, I'ma have to kill someone.

- Speaking of weight classes.....240 POUND HEAVYWEIGHTS NEED TO STOP NO-SELLING CRUISERWEIGHT STRIKES LIKE THEY ARE VADER! EVERY single move needs to be customized for weight class. For instance, Matt Hardy SHOULD be able to strain himself and vertical suplex Kane, but under no circumstances should he be able to powerbomb him. Nor should Johnny Nitro shrug off Super Crazy's dropkicks like he's nothing.

- Add in a spectator/commentator mode for online matches. Wouldn't it be fun as hell for you to be able to watch your friends matches, and commentate during them in place of JR or whoever? I think it would.

- This may not be a popular decision, but, DAMN THE VOICE OVERS! This will allow for TRUE BRANCHING STORYLINES in season mode, and to be able to play as EVERY superstar in season mode, and no longer will your CAWs sound like idiots. Text is FINE! I do NOT play wrestling games for some artistic Zelda style experience! And think of the disc space this will save for far more important things. It'll also allow updated gimmicks to not feel out of place with the voice.

- Shades of No Mercy, I want TWO-FOUR copies of every in game wrestler. They will use the same basic character model/animations, but can allow for different attire, music, and a movelist. Wouldnt it be GREAT if Mick Foley was ONE character, with Cactus, Dude, and Mankind alternate attires? Each with their own music and moveset, but, it only counts as ONE character? I certainly think so. This can also allow for heel, face, or Japan versions of your favorite characters who may look the same but use different moves, such as a Japanese styled Hogan with more wrestling manuvers, an Axe Bomber and the enziguri, all moves he used in Japan.

- This is one of those niggling, non important things that'd be cool I think...create-a-fan! Why not, it was in Madden after all....I think it'd be nice to create a fan or two and put them in the crowd with a custom sign, at least.

- Bring back the backstage arena, not just parking lot and bar, and give us the ability to travel around the backstage areas DURING matches, not just start and finish backstage, but go up the ramp, like in the old SD's.

Now, for the roster. Naturally, there's no way to predict who will still be around come November, but, assume the game will be released in the next few months with this roster I am suggesting. Note a new feature in the roster, as well, WCW and ECW Legends. This allows for some popular guys who may not have achieved their greatest successes in WWE (Or even wrestled there) to still be included in the game due to their achievements elsewhere. I will list proposed finishers here too, and their trademark weapon if they have one.

RAW:

1. Carlito (Backcracker, Overdrive, Apple Spit + Rollup pin [Ultimate Finisher])
2. Charlie Haas (Haas of Pain.....Knock Lillian Off The Apron. LOL. I dunno)
3. Chris Masters (Master Lock, Polish Hammer that sees Masters stalk them then bust 'em open)
4. Edge (Ground Spear, Running Spear, One man Conchairto [UF])
5. Eugene (Stunner, Rock Bottom, Tard Rage where he becomes stronger for a short period of time [UF])
6. Hacksaw Jim Duggan (Three Point Stance Clothesline, ref bump + 2x4 assault [UF], 2x4 (Signature Weapon))
7. Jeff Hardy (Twist of Fate, Swanton Bomb, Swanton Off a Balcony [UF, outside the ring only])
8. John Cena (FU, STFU)
9. Johnny Nitro (Sorry I dont know what he does, I cant stand him)
10. JTG (Does he have a solo finish? I dunno. Him and Shad together have their finisher)
11. Lance Cade (Lariat, Double Lariat Tag Team finish)
12. Randy Orton (RKO, Getting suspended, Gym Bag Poop [UF])
13. Ric Flair (Figure Four, Dancing Figure Four, Series of low blows into a Figure Four [UF])
14 & 15. Rory and Robbie (I dont know if they have solo finishes either, but, the game needs good teams)
16. Shad Gaspard (Running Ghetto Boot plus tag finisher)
17. Shawn Michaels (Sweet Chin Music standing, Sweet Chin Music with opponent on ground, High flying elbow drop into a Superkick [UF], Ladder or Sledgehammer [SW])
18. Shelton Benjamin (T-Bone, Dragon Whip)
19. Snitsky (Running Big Boot, Pumphandle Slam, Baby Punt [UF, super taunt move])
20. Super Crazy (Moonsault, Balcony Moonsault [UF, must be done in crowd])
21. The Great Khali (BRAIN CHOP, Chokebomb, 790 Shooting Star Swansault [UF])
22. Trevor Murdoch (Top Rope Bulldog, Low Lariat w/ Cade)
23. Triple H (Pedigree, Ref Bump + Sledgehammer Assault [UF], Sledgehammer [SW])
24. Umaga (Samoan Spike, Big Splash Through Table [UF])
25. Val Venis (Money Shot)

SmackDown:

26. Batista (Sorry I dont know what he does besides the Batista Bomb. Havent watched one of his matches in 2 years)
27. Boogeyman (Ditto. Give him some sort of worm move for his UF)
28. Brian Kendrick (Havent seem him lately either. I dont watch SD, can you tell?)
29. Chavo Guerrero (Frog Splash)
30. Chris Benoit (Crossface, Flying Headbutt)
31. Finlay (Does he still do the Emerald Fusion looking move? Also have him throw Little Bastard at an opponent as his [UF] Shilelgahy [SW])
32. Funaki (Tornado DDT, Fisherman Buster)
33. Gregory Helms (Shining Wizard, whatever else he does now)
34. Jimmy Wang Yang (Guh?)
35. Joey Mercury (Yeah. I hate MNM.)
36. Kane (Chokeslam, Tombstone)
37. King Booker (Book End, Axe Kick)
38. Mark Henry (Bearhug, Powerslam)
39. Matt Hardy (Twist of Fate, Legdrop)
40. Ken Kennedy (Whatever he does)
41. Paul London (Yup)
42. Rey Misterio (619, Cry About Eddie and Automatically Win [UF])
43. Undertaker (Tombstone, Last Ride)
44. William Regal (Regal Stretch, Running Knee, Power of the Punch [UF])

ECW:

45. Balls Mahoney (Nutcracker Suite, Ball Breaker, Killer Chairshot [Weapon Finisher] Signature Chair [SW])
46. CM Punk (Anaconda Vice)
47. Hardcore Holly (Alabama Slam)
48. Kevin Thorn (Rope Assisted Cutter, Crucifix Powerbomb)
49. Lashley (Spear, Dominator, Look like a joke and talk like a homo [Automatic])
50. Little Guido (Sicilian Slice)
51. RVD (Frog Splash, Van Daminator [WF], Van Terminator [UF])
52. Sabu (Triple Jump Moonsault, Camel Clutch, Atomic Arabian Facebuster [UF] Double Top Rope Attack through table [Tag finish with Van Dam])
53. The Sandman (Rolling Rock, White Russian Legsweep [WF], Rapid Cane Assault + Beer Guzzle [UF] Singapore Cane [SW])
54. Stevie Richards (Steviekick, Stevie-T, has alternate bWo attire)
55. Test (Running Big Boot, Test Cutter thing whatever its called)
56. Tommy Dreamer (DDT, Death Valley Driver, Chair Assisted Baseball Slide in corner [UF] Singapore Cane [SW])

Divas:

57. Victoria (Widow's Peak)
58. Mickie James (Mick Kick, Mickie DDT)
59. Ariel (STO)
60. Torrie (Facebuster)
61. Candice (Whatever)
62. Melina (Whatever)

WWE Legends

63. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Stunner)
64. The Rock (Hollywood Rock attire, Rock Bottom, People's Elbow)
65. Hulk Hogan (Hulkamania, nWo, and 2002 comeback attires. Legdrop, Hulk Up [UF, Hogan becomes unstoppable during this time and if he hits a legdrop its an auto-pin])
66. Randy Savage (Big Elbow)
67. Jake Roberts (DDT. Unleashes Damian in his win animation)
68. Mr. Perfect (Perfect-Plex)
69. Rowdy Roddy Piper (Sleeper)
70. Demolition (Demolition Decapitation)
71. Sgt. Slaughter (Cobra Clutch)
72. Razor Ramon (Razor's Edge)
73. Mick Foley with all his gimmicks as alternate attires. Cactus Jack, Mick Foley and Mankind spread thumbtacks around as one of their weapon finishers, Dude Love....dances and the opponent dances with him, like the old Michael Jackson game!
74. Goldust (Curtain Call, Shattered Dreams)


WCW Legends

75. Big Van Vader (Vader Bomb, Powerbomb, Vadersault, and for the love of god get his steam helmet for his intro)
76. Abdullah the Butcher (Sudanese Elbow Drop, Fork Stab)
77. Arn Anderson (DDT, Spinebuster)
78. Dusty Rhodes (Make him fat with the long curly hair, dammit! Bionic Elbow of course)
79. Sid Vicious (Simply because I ran out of room in WWE. Chokeslam and Powerbomb)
80. Stan Hansen (Lariat)

(Just going with these guys for now as its hard to think of other WCW guys who arent either in WWE, TNA, or on bad terms with WWE and not likely to be in)

ECW Legends

81. Terry Funk (Spinning Toe Hold, Moonsault, Branding Iron [SW], Ladder Spin [WF])
82. The Blue Meanie (Meaniesault)
83. Hollywood Nova (Take your pick of his moves)
84. New Jack (187 Chair Shot, tons of weapons)
85. Masato Tanaka (Roaring Elbow, Diamond Dust, Chair Assisted Tornado DDT [WF])
86. Mike Awesome (Awesomebomb, Running Awesomebomb, Awesomebomb over the top rope to table set up on floor [UF])
87. Al Snow (Snowplow, Head [SW])

Now, I know this is a HUGE roster, BUT....this game should be ONLY on the 360 and PS3, do NOT cater to inferior 7 year old hardware this go round!

Anyone who read this far....congratulations.


Oh, and custom soundtracks for CAWs goes without sayin....so that means we wont get them ,once again.

FOR GREAT VICTORY!!

[gillbergsson]

Holy crap! I played the "Return of the Phay Boys" challenge today. The first blood match between Mark Henry and Viscera. Not only did I play for 30 minutes and end up just turning it off but...

1. Viscera hit me twice with a spinning heel kick
2. Viscera dove out of the ring over the top rope!!!!!!!!
3. Viscera reversed 15 of my finishers. 9 of them while his entire body was RED!

Does anyone know an easy way of beating this challenge?

[Erik Majorwitz]

I can't get into this game, damn analog sticks piss me off.

[Ace Diamond]

gillbergsson said:

Holy crap! I played the "Return of the Phay Boys" challenge today. The first blood match between Mark Henry and Viscera. Not only did I play for 30 minutes and end up just turning it off but...

1. Viscera hit me twice with a spinning heel kick
2. Viscera dove out of the ring over the top rope!!!!!!!!
3. Viscera reversed 15 of my finishers. 9 of them while his entire body was RED!

Does anyone know an easy way of beating this challenge?

Number 1 is not surprising, he does those in real life. To make it easier, i suggest going into the AI Options in the main options menu of the game and turning the reversal rate down all the way.